Ground development

[Postman]

Are there no members, or people well known to members, with development industry experience and expertise who could do some proper fact finding about the state of this project and the risks the club is exposed to?  No disrespect to members generally but most of us wouldn't know what questions to ask. Now's the time, with the AGM coming up.

[squarelegumpire]

Good thought, Postman. Daren, weren’t you concerned with this sort of thing once?

I recall at the last Forum asking why, if the block which HAS been built is sold out, there was only one flat with any lights on, and was told that as most of them were buy-to-ley, the buyers hadn’t managed to let them yet.I would have thought that if one bought a property one would have been anxious to get some cash back asap, unless there’s some financial shenanigans going on.

[Ash_Essex]

This article and the information it contain raises many questions on a lot of levels and I feel members and followers of ECCC need some explanations; aside from forcing an EGM, specific questions need to be asked at the next Members' Forum; Ash, is there one slated for pre-season? in the meantime, please make sure regular attendees such as "squarelegumpire" and myself are armed with the questions you want asked and we shall do our best.

Hi Daren,

The next Members' Forum is scheduled for Tuesday 12 April, Day 3 of the game v Gloucestershire. It will start at 7pm.

[squarelegumpire]

Thanks, Ash

[jimmy]

Not exactly day 1 at lunch is it. You'd need to be dedicated or lonely to hang around till 7.00 on an inevitably chilly April evening. If you are unable to get to the ground till after work I apologise, just make sure you make them sweat.

[essexfan548]

https://www.haart.co.uk/buying/2-bedroom-apartment-for-sale/chelmsford-essex-cm2/hrt001908645/

They are still advertising loads of these flats ... still says 4 towers.

[bwildered]

Perhaps the club bought them at a reduced rate.

[Daren Mootoo]

Good thought, Postman. Daren, weren't you concerned with this sort of thing once?

I recall at the last Forum asking why, if the block which HAS been built is sold out, there was only one flat with any lights on, and was told that as most of them were buy-to-ley, the buyers hadn't managed to let them yet.I would have thought that if one bought a property one would have been anxious to get some cash back asap, unless there's some financial shenanigans going on.

I was VERY concerned  with this sort of thing in the late 1980s, but it was an unmitigated disaster. I have focused on investment banking for the 27 years since.

 I remember your question at the meeting and indeed the answer you were given. I must admit I am as puzzled as everyone else here. I had a lively conversation with David East some years back, when he was explaining to me the merits of such an investment in the ground (and did I know anyone with a spare £85mln?). I am still not convinced and not sure such an ambitious plan was necessary and the inevitable disruption caused by the construction of apartment blocks alongside Parkway and behind the scoreboard is my main worry. However, I agree with the idea of making the ground a revenue generator both in and out of season, so creating a retail/leisure aspect is a good idea. Top of the list remains a new pavilion and upgraded corporate facilities, among other spectator upgrades. 

 Personally, I don't think anything meaningful will happen until the autumn and even that will be predicated by the team's performance this season. I remain bullish. I think we shall win a trophy and/or get promoted and that will be a more sensible base for discussion and proper guidance as to how all this will really progress. 

[vim]

How many members could afford the price of the flats? I can, but I would invest in something with less hassle than buy to let. Also since the development was first announced, there have been other developments started and completed elsewhere in Chelmsford.

Chelmsford has a poor rail service. How many people working in the City would choose Chelmsford as a location?

I wonder who owns the flats? Ms Anne Anomouse, Mr N O Body and Mr N O One (not the 1960's singer).

[Mog]

Good thought, Postman. Daren, weren't you concerned with this sort of thing once?

I recall at the last Forum asking why, if the block which HAS been built is sold out, there was only one flat with any lights on, and was told that as most of them were buy-to-ley, the buyers hadn't managed to let them yet.I would have thought that if one bought a property one would have been anxious to get some cash back asap, unless there's some financial shenanigans going on.

I was VERY concerned  with this sort of thing in the late 1980s, but it was an unmitigated disaster. I have focused on investment banking for the 27 years since.

 I remember your question at the meeting and indeed the answer you were given. I must admit I am as puzzled as everyone else here. I had a lively conversation with David East some years back, when he was explaining to me the merits of such an investment in the ground (and did I know anyone with a spare £85mln?). I am still not convinced and not sure such an ambitious plan was necessary and the inevitable disruption caused by the construction of apartment blocks alongside Parkway and behind the scoreboard is my main worry. However, I agree with the idea of making the ground a revenue generator both in and out of season, so creating a retail/leisure aspect is a good idea. Top of the list remains a new pavilion and upgraded corporate facilities, among other spectator upgrades. 

 Personally, I don't think anything meaningful will happen until the autumn and even that will be predicated by the team's performance this season. I remain bullish. I think we shall win a trophy and/or get promoted and that will be a more sensible base for discussion and proper guidance as to how all this will really progress.

It was DE's vanity project, to leave a lasting legacy of his own to ECCC. Of course, the whole episode continues to provide a significant embarrassment, that the Club are still talking up, despite having no clue how to deliver it from day one. This is hardly surprising with a Club comprising of ex-players and their mates, who have no idea about redevelopment, financing, or often cricket itself!
Most presciently, was their arrogance, under DE in thinking that they wouldn't bother/ didn't need consulting members or supporters of the Club, or their neighbours. Then, once it was scrutinised, and serious questions asked, such as why were the club and their 'development' partners proposing to build on a flood plain, potentially placing Chelmsford at increased risk of flooding. The Club suddenly became keen advocates of consultation, but purely to meet their own objectives - listening to the input of people who support them was well down that list!
Followed in late 2014, by a 'consultation' to about 50 members, placed in the usual restrictive slot; midweek winter night to make it as difficult as possible for people who may have asked some awkward questions. It has been a continuing stream of incompetence from start to.......soon to start.
However, a phased, proportionate and fit-for-purpose development could have been delivered if the Club had purchased the old hospital site in the late eighties/early nineties, when they were financially strong and successful off the field. It would have had no need for housing as a project enabler. It was a period of significant construction to sports stadia across the UK, financed by the full order books, cheap imports of materials, due in large part of professional football clubs' and their need to implement the Taylor Report.

[Andy]

Mog. Best post of the year thus far. I felt that the club were pushed into 'doing some redevelopment' by the ECB, whose stadium mania means they've had to introduce a city franchise and destroy smaller clubs.

[squarelegumpire]

To be fair Mog, at the time the development there were, IIRC, only two or three ex players in senior positions, Insole, East and Saville, and the former could reasonably be discounted as a partner in decision making. Hilliard, Brown (who’s baby it was), AFAIK never played anything other than club cricker, possibly the odd II’s game,  but no more than that.

That’s not to say it was ever a GOOD IDEA, although I dont think anyone would argue that something had to be done about the Pavilion and players facilities .... the School is, I understand, fine but the changing facilities for visitirs are an embarrasment. I agree with Daren about using the facilities out of season; excellent site and very suitable.

I’m not sure, too, whether the old hospital site would ever have been a runner; a bit, I suggest of being wise after the event.

I don’t want to be accused of supporting the management over this; I think we’re in severe danger of ending up with an expensive and unusable building site, and I do think a bot of honesty and plain speaking from the Committee would not go amiiss.

[Andy]

I’m not sure, too, whether the old hospital site would ever have been a runner; a bit, I suggest of being wise after the event.

Well, I'm no property developer, but prime land on New Writtle Street would've been very useful as an extra income from offices - although leaving room behind for an expansion of the site. But, of course, the management at the time could see no further than the end of Gooch's playing career...

[Mog]

To be fair Mog, at the time the development there were, IIRC, only two or three ex players in senior positions, Insole, East and Saville, and the former could reasonably be discounted as a partner in decision making. Hilliard, Brown (who’s baby it was), AFAIK never played anything other than club cricker, possibly the odd II’s game,  but no more than that.

That’s not to say it was ever a GOOD IDEA, although I dont think anyone would argue that something had to be done about the Pavilion and players facilities .... the School is, I understand, fine but the changing facilities for visitirs are an embarrasment. I agree with Daren about using the facilities out of season; excellent site and very suitable.

I’m not sure, too, whether the old hospital site would ever have been a runner; a bit, I suggest of being wise after the event.

I don’t want to be accused of supporting the management over this; I think we’re in severe danger of ending up with an expensive and unusable building site, and I do think a bot of honesty and plain speaking from the Committee would not go amiiss.

I appreciate your considered response, and clearly you have tried to balance things out here.
The thrust of my argument is the continuing disregard for members by Essex County Cricket Club, and criticism (by them) of anyone who has the audacity to question the Club and seek valid answers to serious questions. What we all get is condescension and contempt, barely disguised; think of Grayson & Irani referring to ECCC long suffering as "so called supporters" for but one example.

If the Club had consulted and listened to what supporters and members were looking for in the proposed new development from the outset, rather than displaying the "we know best" attitude, they may have had some foundations, both physically and metaphorically.
The whole spectator aspect of the development proposal was centred on an oversized pavilion, with a disproportionate seating capacity, with accompanying knee-scrunchingly tight leg room, to create space for the apartments at the expense of the River End. I have never seen a clear drawing or CGI of the design, nine years after release. I wonder why!
Personally, I considered back in the day that the hospital site should have been pursued by ECCC. Both from my Essex fan and professional perspective. It could have delivered an expansion of circulatory space in the ground, with specific access/egress directly into New London Road. Then combined with smart, intelligent and creative thinking, the pavilion side could have been redeveloped with space to retain the car park and cricket school...and leave the outfield to its same size as a minimum.
Unfortunately, the club went after the Chelmsford City FC ground in the late 90s, but were stung by a conman for circa £100k. Again, with better advice and professional expertise this would have probably been avoided and a development delivered. To put in context, that was in the days of Peter Edwards. As he was unable to deliver, what chance those who have succeeded him? Ex-players and their mates. As I said. All very sad.

[Mog]

Mog. Best post of the year thus far. I felt that the club were pushed into 'doing some redevelopment' by the ECB, whose stadium mania means they've had to introduce a city franchise and destroy smaller clubs.

Thanks Andy, very generous. I wonder if DE and his cohort were seduced at the prospect of making a "killing" on the buy-to-let market, just prior to the economic crash. Stadia-mania was largely the role of test-match wannabes,....Others have delivered architecturally pleasing developments; including Derbys, Somerset, and Worcs too, (if you exclude the budget hotel appendage)for example.