Author Topic: Re: Discussion re ground development.  (Read 46130 times)

Offline vim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1588
Re: Re: Discussion re gorund development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2023, 07:51:13 PM »
No one knows what happened to the £100k. The man was Mr Robinson, as no one met him in the flesh his name could have been anyone.

The latest ground redevelopment was unveiled at a members forum. There was a photograph of David East with a model of it holding a pen. It looked as though he was about to cut a novelty birthday cake.

At the forum David East's right hand job man Keith Brown was rather cagey about answering questions about exactly what the completed development would look like. You would have thought he would know at such a late stage. Unless he did not want the members to find out what they were going to get.

David East moved to Dubai. The place abroad that replaced Spain as the go to destination if you are a loser.

Offline vim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1588
Re: Re: Discussion re gorund development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2023, 07:58:31 PM »
Last season John Faragher, just after the ground development was dead. Although like a Hammer film. it may still rise up again. Was telling the Premier suite that when he tried to get an update from Derek Bowden. He only got the song Things can only get better.

Offline Mog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
Re: Re: Discussion re gorund development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2023, 11:02:49 AM »
Just a question to anybody in the know regarding out grounds. Even if Essex were willing and can afford it would the county need permission from local councils to play professional sport?  If the local councils say no; Essex couldn't do anything about it?

That's simple- you collaborate and build professional relationships with the respective council......(As everyone recognises, local authorities have basically been defunded by the Treasury over the past decade and more).
Sadly, there is little that's engaging or collaborative about No Change Essex for an even longer period of time.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2023, 11:08:00 AM by Mog »

Offline Mog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
Re: Re: Discussion re gorund development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2023, 11:14:23 AM »
No one knows what happened to the £100k. The man was Mr Robinson, as no one met him in the flesh his name could have been anyone.

The latest ground redevelopment was unveiled at a members forum. There was a photograph of David East with a model of it holding a pen. It looked as though he was about to cut a novelty birthday cake.

At the forum David East's right hand job man Keith Brown was rather cagey about answering questions about exactly what the completed development would look like. You would have thought he would know at such a late stage. Unless he did not want the members to find out what they were going to get.

David East moved to Dubai. The place abroad that replaced Spain as the go to destination if you are a loser.

That was the never released plan/design for the River End. In essence the Club's design consisted of three rows of open seats abutting a block of eight to twelve storey flats (to make the most of the aspect - over the river!) ECCC neither wanted to reveal or to explain any of this to members as they knew it would cause outrage. Neither did they bother consulting engineering specialists, or the Environment Agency - as it transpired it would have likely created a flood risk to Chelmsford (the City as well as the ground!)

Offline Daren Mootoo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
Re: Re: Discussion re gorund development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2023, 06:45:07 AM »
...

David East moved to Dubai. The place abroad that replaced Spain as the go to destination if you are a loser.

Or a fugitive.
At the time - circa 2011 - I was approached by David East to get together a consortium of my City contacts to invest in the ground redevelopment. He was looking for £85mln, which I suggested was out of the question; where is the return on such a big investment for a ground that was not hosting (Men's) international matches. The idea of building three blocks of flats around the site was also spurious, especially the plan to build one of them behind the scoreboard - surely there wasn't enough space and the disruption to the playing area would be huge. Was there a contingency to relocate for the one or two years it would take to construct these buildings?  East thought this could all be done without disruption! I suggested a more realistic idea of demolishing the current pavilion and corporate hospitality/Premier Suite buildings and replacing them with state-of-the art facilities. Spectator stands could be upgraded - double-deck stands all along the River End - and more efficient use be made of the site to increase capacity. To monetise the plan, I suggested creating a plaza stretching from the river, behind the pavilion and probably partly into the area now used as a car park. Draw in some anchor investors, such as Nando's, Jamie Oliver and the like to take sites on the plaza, such has now been done on Springfield Road and Bond Street. Have a club shop in amongst all this to sell Essex-related merchandise to a bigger footfall. This would have had the added benefit of creating more all-year-round income for the club. I reckoned this would cost nearer to £25mln-£30mln and would be more attractive to investors, as well as minimalising on-field disruption. My suggestion was rebuffed, the flats plan went ahead and the builders apparently scarpered after the first block was completed and East departed for the Middle East.

Offline Andy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7853
Re: Re: Discussion re gorund development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2023, 11:00:19 AM »
Your plans made more sense, Daren, but what to do now?

Offline Mog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
Re: Re: Discussion re gorund development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2023, 07:47:24 PM »
Your plans made more sense, Daren, but what to do now?

Interesting synopsis by Daren.
What to do now? Hmm.....

Let's look at the facts:
ECCC's HQ ground is unfit for purpose.

Is the current site able to be redeveloped? - Not if the people who manage and administer the Club and appear to stick rigidly to the world view and (in)actions of their predecessors - sometimes known as the Essex Way - I'd call it The do nothing policy of No Change Essex.
The Club belatedly decided to attempt a plan to redevelop the County Ground at the time of a World economic crisis - however, the plan was unworkable irrespectively and would therefore have not been delivered in any economic era. The Club's members chose to not challenge the Club in sufficient number over this matter - and the consequence is the debate now - ongoing fifteen years' later.

To progress this, what redevelopment (not relocating to a new HQ: Hants, Durham) has taken place at non Test Match stadia in the UK in the past thirty years?
Developments have generally translated as piecemeal development, predicated on corporate hospitality. County Cricket clubs are not wealthy in this category. The only example of a significant and transformative redevelopment of scale has been the transformation that Somerset have delivered at Taunton.
That appears to be the template to follow, if Essex are planning to remain at the current site. Taunton is every bit as constrained a site as Chelmsford and shares other similarities such as a town centre location, which most ECCC members and supporters seem to enjoy as a setting. Unlike Essex, who doubled down and bragged endlessly, didn't listen to any different opinions - par for the course! Then became defensive and employed ridiculous boosterism when they perhaps should have come clean when presented with the reality that their 'redevelopment' project was a non-starter.

My view is and has always been that the site is too restricted, and although the general facilities could be significantly improved, the footprint is not capable of increasing the capacity to any real tangible degree. What do ECCC's stakeholders want? A big increase in capacity or just a modern stadium that enhances the experience of going to a game, whether watching, playing or corporate. You could achieve the latter, but the former ....?
A modern version of the Riverside and Tom Pearce stands, that would sweep around to the scoreboard, but without the supporting uprights of the existing structures, could be a good starting point to a phased redevelopment.
Unfortunately, poor decision making, failing to listen or engage and inaction, notwithstanding the '90s con man, mean the only tangible areas for expansion; the old hospital side land and the club car park are no longer options.

So, the only realistic scenario is a new out of town HQ, but without backing and with the existing mindset that has beset ECCC for a generation, that is currently unlikely. Maybe that is a good thing....

« Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 07:50:24 PM by Mog »

Offline nat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7292
Re: Re: Discussion re gorund development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2023, 07:57:54 PM »
No a new out of town ground won't fly. The existing ground could sustain a modest increase in capacity, say to 7000. This would suffice for  most matches but the big win would be better player and corporate facilities.

All of this *could* be done on the existing ground and would leave us with a sustainable club in an excellent location.

The cost? I'd guesstimate at £30m.

Glenn Tamplin rebuilt the Billericay Town FC ground in 10 weeks for a fraction of this cost. Granted GT is/was an unconventional businessman but it does show what can be done with determination.

Come on let's get this thing done.

Offline Andy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7853
Re: Re: Discussion re gorund development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2023, 05:27:05 PM »
Glenn Tamplin rebuilt the Billericay Town FC ground in 10 weeks for a fraction of this cost. Granted GT is/was an unconventional businessman but it does show what can be done with determination.

Come on let's get this thing done.

“An unconventional businessman…”? 

Offline Valentines Park

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3820
  • In Ron We Trust
Re: Re: Discussion re gorund development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2023, 05:59:56 PM »

“An unconventional businessman…”?

Code for chancer.

Offline Perov

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
Re: Re: Discussion re gorund development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2023, 08:33:26 PM »

“An unconventional businessman…”?

Code for chancer.
He was was declared bankrupt  in April 2023.   

Offline SirChef26

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1674
Re: Re: Discussion re ground development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2023, 09:19:27 PM »
No a new out of town ground won't fly. The existing ground could sustain a modest increase in capacity, say to 7000. This would suffice for  most matches but the big win would be better player and corporate facilities.

All of this *could* be done on the existing ground and would leave us with a sustainable club in an excellent location.

The cost? I'd guesstimate at £30m.

Glenn Tamplin rebuilt the Billericay Town FC ground in 10 weeks for a fraction of this cost. Granted GT is/was an unconventional businessman but it does show what can be done with determination.

Come on let's get this thing done.
Can't believe you called me out regarding reputable characters, then name checked him!!!

And no, a capacity of 7k will not be sufficient if we want to survive long term, although you are right regarding corp/media/player facilities. We can and would sell far more tickets than 7k for Friday night T20 games alone and we'd need to if we want to sustain a redevelopment. Should be aiming at 10k, but as Mog said, frustratingly probably not feasible.

Offline nat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7292
Re: Re: Discussion re gorund development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2023, 06:26:19 AM »

“An unconventional businessman…”?

Code for chancer.
He was was declared bankrupt  in April 2023.
But the ground got built and still exists. All successful businessmen go through bankruptcy at least once!

Offline Andy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7853
Re: Re: Discussion re gorund development) Leicestershire at Kibworth
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2023, 07:12:12 AM »

“An unconventional businessman…”?

Code for chancer.
He was was declared bankrupt  in April 2023.
But the ground got built and still exists. All successful businessmen go through bankruptcy at least once!

He is bit gangsta, man innit?

Offline Daren Mootoo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
Re: Discussion re ground development.
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2023, 09:42:25 AM »
During my time as Chairman at Billericay CC, I had a lot of dealings with Glenn Tamplin and his "unconventional" approach. But he did have drive, determination and ambition and as Nat correctly highlighted, he may be long gone (Thailand, last I heard), but the excellent football ground he built remains. He also helped increase interest in colts and women's and girls football. He still owes me a tenner though...