Author Topic: In Ashes Down Under ?  (Read 77837 times)

Offline LeedsExile

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #180 on: January 19, 2022, 11:26:20 AM »
Why are you pleased that someone else wants to see the end of Essex CCC?

Offline kingstonj1

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #181 on: January 19, 2022, 01:25:40 PM »
My thoughts are that we do need a higher level of competition but that the county structure should remain as is.

My solution to this would be to add a red ball competition made up of 4/5 regions with each region pulling from a selection of counties.  Games would then be played on the test match grounds over 5 days under full test match conditions.  In effect these would be trials for the England team but by giving it official status it may well draw in some sponsorship for the ECB.  These would be scheduled as much as possible to play in the middle of summer and contracted players to play if fit and not playing in a test match.

This would then enable the Championship to continue as normal, perhaps with the opportunity to reduce games to 3 days as some would like.  The better 2 XI players would then be given the opportunity to step up and play a higher lever level of red ball cricket in a competition that people care about.  The places opened up in 2 XI cricket could then be used to trial the better club players.

It is similar to a red ball equivalent to the Hundred but without the franchises and with a point of providing a pathway to the national team.

The good thing that came out of the Hundred last season was the absence of a lot of the usual overseas mercenaries provided the opportunity for younger, previously unknown, players to make a name for themselves.  Some did and will get a contract again this year.

This was what Agnew was advocating & I agree.

Why?

When division 1 serves the same purpose, and we have a far larger talent pool to give opportunity to (in theory).

Do you not think its kneejerk given the mitigating factors:

- 4 day cricket completely de-prioritised in recent years by ECB, including the weakening of competition by the silly conference system last season
- Games played at beginning and end of season in worst conditions for developing batsmen and bowlers who have to think for themselves?
- No preparation for the Ashes tour in question
- Covid and the challenges that brings

Please have a go at explaining why they are not far more pressing and obvious factors than completely restructuring the whole of the game so the 'best play the best', which already happens in division 1, mostly.

A return to 1 up one down would further strengthen division 1.

If the above is done, as well as changing the ball and giving increased batting points to incentiveise long patient batting, and still we get humiliated at test cricket then by all means change the structure.

Not long ago we were ranked in the top 2  in test cricket with the exact same county structure as now. Whats changed - prioritization of limited overs cricket subsequently.

Offline SirChef26

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #182 on: January 19, 2022, 06:32:20 PM »
Three divisions of six, one up one down, ten games, problem solved. Add in proper games against touring nations as well where counties either field their best sides or get fined/docked points.

I find it hard to believe a couple of folk on here actually support Essex based on what I've read about their proposals, basically advocating the club's demise.

Offline nat

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #183 on: January 19, 2022, 06:43:20 PM »
Three divisions of six, one up one down, ten games, problem solved. Add in proper games against touring nations as well where counties either field their best sides or get fined/docked points.

I find it hard to believe a couple of folk on here actually support Essex based on what I've read about their proposals, basically advocating the club's demise.

Ridiculous.

Offline kingstonj1

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #184 on: January 19, 2022, 10:29:02 PM »
Three divisions of six, one up one down, ten games, problem solved. Add in proper games against touring nations as well where counties either field their best sides or get fined/docked points.

I find it hard to believe a couple of folk on here actually support Essex based on what I've read about their proposals, basically advocating the club's demise.

Would certainly be preferable than complete restructure, but i still strongly advocate that a 9 or 8 team division 1 with 1 up one down, played in the proper summer, will have the desired impact.

A division of 6 limits those exposed to best vs best. The case of players developing late, that in Aus get picked up in Grade cricket and then thrown back to State at 25+ would be stuck in lower divisions and 3 would become semi pro over time imo. We need division 2 to give chances to those late developers/2nd chancers that club cricket here and National Counties doesn't offer as the standard is nowhere near good enough (no fault of the clubs) look at Critch I'm fairly sure he started at Lancs but was released as a youth. Were it not for Derbys giving him a chance to and a wage to live on he would be lost to the game. Now hes done well and will be playing in Division 1 next season with opportunity to test himself against the best.

The problem with first class county cricket, is summed up by 2 words. Darren Stevens. Yes hes a canny bowler but he is not so good as to be such a force at his age. Its all thats wrong with things. Poor pitches played in unhelpful batting conditions times of year have led to this. A decade ago you didn't get players like him having such an impact.

I don't blame him and Kent for his success or picking him, until the powers that be make sure cricket is played on good pitches at times of year that are conducive to good pitches he will remain effective. Play on good pitches in the actual summer and his like will naturally drop away as they will be ineffective other than as a few overs as 3rd change. He may remain in the game as a batsmen but his dobbers would go the way of the dodo.

This won't help Essex as Porter and Cook rely too much on pitches (witness how poor we are seam bowling wise on any pitch that doesn't offer anything off it), whereas someone like Beard who has extra pace but goes for a few and doesn't seam it much, is never plays as he doesn't suit the conditions. I think Cook has the skills to bowl on flat pitches, not sure about Porter so much, but it has to be done.

edited for spelling.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 10:36:30 PM by kingstonj1 »

Offline SirChef26

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #185 on: January 20, 2022, 12:01:04 AM »
Why would division three become semi pro? You don't see football clubs in England going semi pro because they aren't in the Premier League. Folk go to support the counties, the opposition should be irrelevant to them. The counties will still get the same amount of cash from the ECB, although they should be constantly monitored as to how they use the cash. More importantly, it would hopefully prove the catalyst to give the constantly rubbish red ball counties a good boot up the arse and actually put some effort into their red ball systems as Essex did years ago to great success. In fact, counties in lower division would gain even more cash as those from higher divisions should be given the ability to buy players for fees. The likes of Surrey and Lancashire are making money hand over fist, so let them pour some of that cash into those counties with less means.

Fans of counties such as Essex with a non Test match ground or Hundred franchise are going to have to accept that if they want the County Championship to survive being culled over the next few years in favour of regional/franchise cricket, the number of games will have to be reduced to fit it in over a period of June-July-early September. I hate the Hundred as much as the next fan, but I've accepted that it's going nowhere. We either learn to live with it or wilt and die.

Offline afinetickletoleg

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #186 on: January 20, 2022, 10:18:38 AM »
Why are you pleased that someone else wants to see the end of Essex CCC?

Who said anything about seeing the end of Essex CCC?

What I proposed was regional games to sit above the County Championship to act as a trial system for the national team and retaining the 18 counties.

Offline SirChef26

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #187 on: January 20, 2022, 02:31:58 PM »
Why are you pleased that someone else wants to see the end of Essex CCC?

Who said anything about seeing the end of Essex CCC?

What I proposed was regional games to sit above the County Championship to act as a trial system for the national team and retaining the 18 counties.
Yes and as a result advocating the end of Essex Cricket. I have no interest in watching our club act as a feeder for some regional non-entities. That will be the end of my support and that of thousands of other fans no doubt. Goodbye membership fees, goodbye Essex.

Offline kingstonj1

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #188 on: January 20, 2022, 05:19:58 PM »
I think today's fixtures say it all.

How many 4 day games in April, early may and September?

And they wonder why batsmen don't bat long or why bowlers have no skills on non helpful pitches.

Offline Slogger

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #189 on: January 20, 2022, 09:14:22 PM »
I know the telly wouldn't like it, but I've thought for some time on purely cricketing lines that there should be a compact short form season in September after the championship has finished. No bad light or dewy mornings either.

Offline afinetickletoleg

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #190 on: January 21, 2022, 10:19:10 AM »
Why are you pleased that someone else wants to see the end of Essex CCC?

Who said anything about seeing the end of Essex CCC?

What I proposed was regional games to sit above the County Championship to act as a trial system for the national team and retaining the 18 counties.
Yes and as a result advocating the end of Essex Cricket. I have no interest in watching our club act as a feeder for some regional non-entities. That will be the end of my support and that of thousands of other fans no doubt. Goodbye membership fees, goodbye Essex.

All counties act as a feeder for the England team so what is the real difference to also providing players for a handful of trial games per season?

They might not clash with championship games as the purpose would be to play in the middle of summer under test match conditions.

Either way it would give younger players the opportunity to step up and prove themselves.