India 2021

[Slogger]

Sorry still don't care about 20-20.

A few years ago on a sunny afternoon watching Nick Browne take a 100 off Derbyshire I remember discussing T20/white ball cricket with a fellow member. His view was that cricket was splitting, like rugby did in 1895, into two codes, which would soon have different teams and different players. I didn't agree with him at the time. I now think I was wrong. Increasingly after a career (sometimes quite short) in red ball cricket top players gravitate to the T20 franchise circuit and some young players never play really play red ball cricket. Amir, Topley jnr and Bopara are all examples with Essex connections of this trend in one way or another. Sir Alastair, a red ball cricketer who has played on for his county, really seems like a throwback to a lost era!

Slogger, I think you are right about the increasing split between 20:20 and "proper cricket" but I don't think the rugby analogy is close at all. There was a terrific documentary on the beer on rugby code changers - it's on iPlayer now at https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09w01q4 - which, shows a depth of enmity (sometimes downright hatred) between "the powers that be" of the 2 codes, with geographical & class being major factors. Well worth watching.
BTW I'm not a big rugger man, but if I do watch it I prefer Union, even if I'm more culturally inclined towards League.)

Thanks. I'm a big Rugby League fan - I go to London Broncos - so I get the point about the cultural and class splits in rugby, which I don't think is happening in cricket, but that chap's point about different teams and players is happening. I suppose the difference is that cricket has managed to maintain white ball and red ball play under one governing body. Having lived in West Yorks for a while I well know the antipathy that many northern league fans still have for RU (not shared by me I hasten to add)

[bwildered]

 Simple choice would be white ball due to time and money every time, which avoids the hard earn red ball game. However were do the white ball players come from, mostly earned their all round skills and reputation previously in red ball cricket.
 The problem is most want their cake and eat it, with both formats, which invariably means clashes in the calendar, and rotation policies becoming now the norm.

[honkytonk]

Sorry still don't care about 20-20.

A few years ago on a sunny afternoon watching Nick Browne take a 100 off Derbyshire I remember discussing T20/white ball cricket with a fellow member. His view was that cricket was splitting, like rugby did in 1895, into two codes, which would soon have different teams and different players. I didn't agree with him at the time. I now think I was wrong. Increasingly after a career (sometimes quite short) in red ball cricket top players gravitate to the T20 franchise circuit and some young players never play really play red ball cricket. Amir, Topley jnr and Bopara are all examples with Essex connections of this trend in one way or another. Sir Alastair, a red ball cricketer who has played on for his county, really seems like a throwback to a lost era!

Slogger, I think you are right about the increasing split between 20:20 and "proper cricket" but I don't think the rugby analogy is close at all. There was a terrific documentary on the beer on rugby code changers - it's on iPlayer now at https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09w01q4 - which, shows a depth of enmity (sometimes downright hatred) between "the powers that be" of the 2 codes, with geographical & class being major factors. Well worth watching.
BTW I'm not a big rugger man, but if I do watch it I prefer Union, even if I'm more culturally inclined towards League.)

Thanks. I'm a big Rugby League fan - I go to London Broncos - so I get the point about the cultural and class splits in rugby, which I don't think is happening in cricket, but that chap's point about different teams and players is happening. I suppose the difference is that cricket has managed to maintain white ball and red ball play under one governing body. Having lived in West Yorks for a while I well know the antipathy that many northern league fans still have for RU (not shared by me I hasten to add)

I support the Broncos as well, plus Harlequins!!  Looking like a pretty naff season incoming for the LBs

Oh, and West Ham!!

[Slogger]

Sorry still don't care about 20-20.

A few years ago on a sunny afternoon watching Nick Browne take a 100 off Derbyshire I remember discussing T20/white ball cricket with a fellow member. His view was that cricket was splitting, like rugby did in 1895, into two codes, which would soon have different teams and different players. I didn't agree with him at the time. I now think I was wrong. Increasingly after a career (sometimes quite short) in red ball cricket top players gravitate to the T20 franchise circuit and some young players never play really play red ball cricket. Amir, Topley jnr and Bopara are all examples with Essex connections of this trend in one way or another. Sir Alastair, a red ball cricketer who has played on for his county, really seems like a throwback to a lost era!

Slogger, I think you are right about the increasing split between 20:20 and "proper cricket" but I don't think the rugby analogy is close at all. There was a terrific documentary on the beer on rugby code changers - it's on iPlayer now at https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09w01q4 - which, shows a depth of enmity (sometimes downright hatred) between "the powers that be" of the 2 codes, with geographical & class being major factors. Well worth watching.
BTW I'm not a big rugger man, but if I do watch it I prefer Union, even if I'm more culturally inclined towards League.)

Thanks. I'm a big Rugby League fan - I go to London Broncos - so I get the point about the cultural and class splits in rugby, which I don't think is happening in cricket, but that chap's point about different teams and players is happening. I suppose the difference is that cricket has managed to maintain white ball and red ball play under one governing body. Having lived in West Yorks for a while I well know the antipathy that many northern league fans still have for RU (not shared by me I hasten to add)

I support the Broncos as well, plus Harlequins!!  Looking like a pretty naff season incoming for the LBs

Oh, and West Ham!!

Well I never Mr Honky Tonk! I started watching RL on Grandstand back in the day and really got into it when I lived up north. For those who have never been it's a tremendous game when you watch it live. It's good on TV but really good when you get close to the action. I shall now shut up before the mods tell me I've taken another thread off topic!

[Andy]

Could never get interested in League, always seemed to be a shorn off version of the 15 a side code and even less relevant since 1995. Having said that I have admired the hard work put into the marketing of the game. Professional sports need to work hard to get the support and money coming in. That's why t20 has it's place. The 100 seems to be a mess.

[bwildered]

 Down to a final game shot out after England’s defeat and also against the toss. Chasing a par score the batsmen all looked set, but them got out , especially Stokes and Capt Morgan in consecutive deliveries,  leaving the tail, unable finish the job.
 Must have been one of the longest ever T20 games, with the third umpire, having several reply’s to content with. Looks like Sky had done away with the retro look, but now have the Thunderbird chairs.
 England have almost found a settled eleven for the forthcoming World Cup later in the year, but still  S Curran and Roy still have to convince on a regular basis.

[honkytonk]

Down to a final game shot out after England’s defeat and also against the toss. Chasing a par score the batsmen all looked set, but them got out , especially Stokes and Capt Morgan in consecutive deliveries,  leaving the tail, unable finish the job.
 Must have been one of the longest ever T20 games, with the third umpire, having several reply’s to content with. Looks like Sky had done away with the retro look, but now have the Thunderbird chairs.
 England have almost found a settled eleven for the forthcoming World Cup later in the year, but still  S Curran and Roy still have to convince on a regular basis.

I would like to see Livingstone given a chance instead of Roy.  Likewise Parkinson over Rashid (England would be stumped if Rashid picked up and injury)

[JasonP]

If England are picking their best available team for the World Cup then Hales gets in it easily.  I very much doubt he'll be picked though.  I think Malan is the one under pressure, I still don't think they're sure about him.  Roy tends to either get runs quickly or get out quickly.  Malan tends to take a while to get going and if he gets in he can score quickly but the 2 innings he played in the two games we lost, 14 from 17 balls and 24 from 23 balls, are the type that lose you matches.  I think Root may well play in the next T20 WC.

[honkytonk]

If England are picking their best available team for the World Cup then Hales gets in it easily.  I very much doubt he'll be picked though.  I think Malan is the one under pressure, I still don't think they're sure about him.  Roy tends to either get runs quickly or get out quickly.  Malan tends to take a while to get going and if he gets in he can score quickly but the 2 innings he played in the two games we lost, 14 from 17 balls and 24 from 23 balls, are the type that lose you matches.  I think Root may well play in the next T20 WC.

I hope not, I would have Root no where near the team.  We have enough good white ball players. Let him focus on Red Ball

[bwildered]

 Well, from 2-1 up England contrived to lose the series 3-2. In the winner takes all final game, England bowlers were plundered with gay abandon and could not stem the flow. Interesting to note Kohli with a supporting role throughout and guided the innings to a colossal score.
 Scoreboard pressure from the word go, Roy went instantly, but at the half way stage England were still in it. Sadly nobody took Kohli’s mantel to bat through, hence the innings disintegrated. A defeat of thirty runs is comprehensive in T20 terms, with India now taking the high ground with the T20 World Cup later in the year.
  England could tinker with Hales for Roy and Livingstone for Curran to improve things .

[Andy]

Not sure if there's going to be any major changes in the team - just like the rugby union team most can pick their matches. Names bandied around here seem to be more of the same.

[JasonP]

Not quite sure what David Willey has done so wrong to be nowhere near Englands thoughts this winter?  He was doing pretty well and now is behind both Sam Curran and Topley as Englands left armer.  Two T20 international matches ago he had the figures of 3-0-7-4 against the West Indies and now they just don't seem to fancy him anymore.

[bwildered]

 First 50 over game and England went off like a runaway train in chasing 300 plus , obviously PCA / Network Rail got involved with a one out all out policy and chase got derailed big time . All the usual suspects were shown sitting on the platform looking like the train had just been cancelled . Wickets please said the collector .
 Perhaps Thomas and friends could educate them where it all went wrong .
 One down, two to come, next journey to Pune is Friday, let’s hope no more delays.

[Andy]

Seems like the England batting line up has only one gear -  top gear. The concept of managing the run rate is beyond them. The days when Fletch used to come in at 6 and negotiate the last 10-12 overs has gone. Trouble at mill.

[Oldhasbeen]

Not quite sure what David Willey has done so wrong to be nowhere near Englands thoughts this winter?  He was doing pretty well and now is behind both Sam Curran and Topley as Englands left armer.  Two T20 international matches ago he had the figures of 3-0-7-4 against the West Indies and now they just don't seem to fancy him anymore.

A good point. Willey, if I recall, is also a decent fielder (unlike Reece Topley)