Dutch Fiasco: bye bye Giles?

[IlfordEagle]

Aggers has also said in the last few days on his BBC column that he thinks the England job isn't attractive these days and I think he's right....I mean who would want to take over this mess?!  No one has barely applied so we might as well give it to The King of Spain.

As for this latest fiasco, why on earth don't we select players who actually excel in t20's like Carberry, Kieswetter, Malan, Allenby, Topley, Willey, Briggs?!  These guys were all at the top of the t20 averages in 2013.  I mean what has Broad done to warrant selection in this format and as captain he hasn't a clue!!!

Very true ,the above players are the best we have  but something seems to happen when players pull on an England shirt, apart from Rugby Union players seem incapable of performing or more tellingly, playing with real pride it seems.

[firehazard]

Aggers has also said in the last few days on his BBC column that he thinks the England job isn't attractive these days and I think he's right....I mean who would want to take over this mess?!  No one has barely applied so we might as well give it to The King of Spain.

As for this latest fiasco, why on earth don't we select players who actually excel in t20's like Carberry, Kieswetter, Malan, Allenby, Topley, Willey, Briggs?!  These guys were all at the top of the t20 averages in 2013.  I mean what has Broad done to warrant selection in this format and as captain he hasn't a clue!!!

Very true ,the above players are the best we have  but something seems to happen when players pull on an England shirt, apart from Rugby Union players seem incapable of performing or more tellingly, playing with real pride it seems.

In RU, the recent change of coaching regime (ahem) seems to have worked wonders for England. Now playing better than they have done for years, and they're an exciting team to watch. The atmosphere at Twickenham during the home 6 Nations games was amazing.

[afinetickletoleg]

In RU, the recent change of coaching regime (ahem) seems to have worked wonders for England. Now playing better than they have done for years, and they're an exciting team to watch. The atmosphere at Twickenham during the home 6 Nations games was amazing.

Recent? Lancaster has had 3 six nations as coach.

[Valentines Park]

Recent? Lancaster has had 3 six nations as coach.

Think of all the failure Larry has managed to cram into that time.

& long before it too.

[firehazard]

In RU, the recent change of coaching regime (ahem) seems to have worked wonders for England. Now playing better than they have done for years, and they're an exciting team to watch. The atmosphere at Twickenham during the home 6 Nations games was amazing.

Recent? Lancaster has had 3 six nations as coach.

Yes, and over that time Lancaster has continued to build a team that is growing in confidence and playing much better rugby than under his predecessors. He's not been afraid to introduce new, young players and give them an extended run in the team. He has widespread support from both players and fans. And the signs of improvement are obvious. There's a real sense of confidence and anticipation about what the team could achieve. This is what a good coach can do, and earn general respect by doing so.

[afinetickletoleg]

In RU, the recent change of coaching regime (ahem) seems to have worked wonders for England. Now playing better than they have done for years, and they're an exciting team to watch. The atmosphere at Twickenham during the home 6 Nations games was amazing.

Recent? Lancaster has had 3 six nations as coach.

Yes, and over that time Lancaster has continued to build a team that is growing in confidence and playing much better rugby than under his predecessors. He's not been afraid to introduce new, young players and give them an extended run in the team. He has widespread support from both players and fans. And the signs of improvement are obvious. There's a real sense of confidence and anticipation about what the team could achieve. This is what a good coach can do, and earn general respect by doing so.

Has a good coach ever won anything without having good players?

Mind you having said that has Lancaster won a six nations?

[IanS]

My view, as usual, is how much of this defeat is down to the coaching staff and how much is down to the decision making and performance of the players?

Perehaps you could offer an answer to your own question?

Would still be interested in your thoughts on your own question.

[firehazard]

Has a good coach ever won anything without having good players?

Dunno, but there are many examples of a good coach significantly turning around the underperformance of his/her players. And a bad coach doing the opposite.

Mind you having said that has Lancaster won a six nations?

Not yet, but given the dreadful state and appalling morale of the squad he inherited, there's little doubt that he's moving a young and inexperienced team in the right direction, in a comparatively short space of time given the mess they were in before he arrived. He's also realistic about aspirations and expectations. But let's not turn this into a rugby thread please.

[afinetickletoleg]

My view, as usual, is how much of this defeat is down to the coaching staff and how much is down to the decision making and performance of the players?

Perehaps you could offer an answer to your own question?

Would still be interested in your thoughts on your own question.

How many times have I answered this in the past?

The coach obviously has an input in the preparation of the players and the tactics but it is then down to the players to go out and perform.  If they do not have the skills/application/mental toughness to put the plans in to practice then it is down to them.

So I would say 20% coach and 80% players.

[Oldhasbeen]

Well, apparently its a short list of 4: Giles, Mick Newell, Peter Moores (!!!) and Trevor Bayliss, whose name rang only the vaguest bell.

Giles is still the bookies' favourite, with Moores 2nd in most books.

Who's feeling inspired?

[Perov]

What about Vaughan?
Chirping from the sidelines he seems to have all the answers and claims to know where things are going wrong.
Still it's an easier life being a pundit than taking a job that puts you in the firing line from former England players.

[Andy]

What about Vaughan?
Chirping from the sidelines he seems to have all the answers and claims to know where things are going wrong.
Still it's an easier life being a pundit than taking a job that puts you in the firing line from former England players.

This is the guy who left the captaincy in tears, now having a go at Trott for 'conning' him over his withdrawal from the Ashes. Too many talentless ex-players clogging up the media.

[Oldhasbeen]

What about Vaughan?
Chirping from the sidelines he seems to have all the answers and claims to know where things are going wrong.
Still it's an easier life being a pundit than taking a job that puts you in the firing line from former England players.

This is the guy who left the captaincy in tears, now having a go at Trott for 'conning' him over his withdrawal from the Ashes. Too many talentless ex-players clogging up the media.

I wouldn't call Vaughan "talentless" (even as a pundit) but his continual know-it-all carping is very tiresome. If he's got all the answers, maybe he should apply for the manager's job.  Like the Yanks say, "if you ain't gonna sh*t, get off the pot."

And Botham's even worse, though perhaps that goes without saying.

[Valentines Park]

So I would say 20% coach and 80% players.

Ordinarily I would agree with that assessment.

But the fact that virtually every Essex player that leaves goes on to pull up trees points the finger firmly at Grayson being a total lemon.

[DT]

Well, apparently its a short list of 4: Giles, Mick Newell, Peter Moores (!!!) and Trevor Bayliss, whose name rang only the vaguest bell.

Giles is still the bookies' favourite, with Moores 2nd in most books.

Who's feeling inspired?

Mick Newell without question if he wants it - he is a quiet calm man so A/ that will help us recover and B/ will want to keep out of the media spotlight - his record speaks for itself too...