Author Topic: Antigua Test  (Read 11877 times)

Offline Gilders

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Antigua Test
« on: February 01, 2019, 05:58:16 PM »
Grassy wicket especially on day 1.  Still doing plenty on day 2.

Although he isn't quick, I think Porter would have done well on it - would have had it jagging around off the seam off a fullish length.

Places for seamers are blocked however by a mixture of the veterans and the all-rounders, making it hard for the next generation to break into the team - not just Porter but others like Archer Stone Overton Bailey.

I think it's particularly tough on Jamie who was called into the Test squad in 2018 bit didn't get a game all summer despite favourable conditions and despite being hailed by Ed Smith as the best bowler in CC  cricket over the past 3 years.

All the pundits' rhetoric is about needing more pace in the team to match Windies and Aussies like for like.  My point is if you are really good you don't need to be that quick - for example Vernon Philander or Mike Hendrick or Glenn McGrath or Jimmy Anderson or Matthew Hoggard or Ryan Sidebottom.

Offline nat

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2019, 08:12:36 PM »
Agree about Porter but this wicket is unusual, good for cricket but unusual. Porter has yet to prove he can be effective on flat decks, which are unfortunately the norm in Test cricket. Of the other English bowlers you mention I like Bailey. Stone is another injury-prone bowler and the others are not yet good enough.

Offline Suffolk Richard

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2019, 10:14:22 PM »
Grassy wicket especially on day 1.  Still doing plenty on day 2.

Although he isn't quick, I think Porter would have done well on it - would have had it jagging around off the seam off a fullish length.

Places for seamers are blocked however by a mixture of the veterans and the all-rounders, making it hard for the next generation to break into the team - not just Porter but others like Archer Stone Overton Bailey.

I think it's particularly tough on Jamie who was called into the Test squad in 2018 bit didn't get a game all summer despite favourable conditions and despite being hailed by Ed Smith as the best bowler in CC  cricket over the past 3 years.

All the pundits' rhetoric is about needing more pace in the team to match Windies and Aussies like for like.  My point is if you are really good you don't need to be that quick - for example Vernon Philander or Mike Hendrick or Glenn McGrath or Jimmy Anderson or Matthew Hoggard or Ryan Sidebottom.

Problem for Porter and anybody else who has aspirations to play international cricket. Is not only do you need to look like your good enough, you also need to look like your good enough at the right time. If you think back to Sir Alistair on his debut he was producing the goods like Porter is now, but only got a game because of someone else's misfortune. Porter's ability with the bat may need to improve in addition to at least maintaining his levels as a bowler, if he wishes to get the attention of the selectors. I'm not sure especially with the current England squad that having just one main function will help his chances.

Offline Oldhasbeen

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2019, 10:55:27 AM »
Jamie's a good bowler but I'm not convinced he'd do well in the Windies. Look how Sam Curran is struggling to make an impact; Jamie's a little faster but no more. Is he really a better bowler than Woakes? And he's nowhere near as good a bat as Woakes or Curran. True, Jason Holder isn't that  much faster than Curran but at 6'7" he has other strengths.

Jamie may well have dodged a bullet missing this winter's tours, though IMHO he's got a good chance of making the Test team next summer if there are some seamer-friendly conditions and/or some oldie fitness issues, or the selectors feel experimental against Ireland. . Jimmy can't go on for ever, a lot of punters see Jamie as his successor.

re the pace issue, not all seamers have to be express pace, but, outside the Indian subcontinent, without some real pace in the attack you're gonna struggle bowling out top Test teams. Nasser put it very well on Sky when he talked about the need for a class "X-factor" bowler, a leggie or paceman, in the attack, and pointed out how hard it was to know who was up to it until you gave candidates a decent crack in the Test arena - he pointed out the slating the selectors got for persisting with Steve Harmison and Simon Jones years back;  I'll confess that after he'd played a few Tests, I gave my opinion that Harmy was the worst fast bowler ever to play for England, not even that good for Durham, and should be dumped immediately. (I was reminded of this numerous times when Harmy was number one in the world rankings)

I'd have liked to seen Ollie Stone given a chance, as part of a 4-man seam attack,  although I've only seen a little of him. He looked pretty scary.

Offline nat

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2019, 12:40:27 PM »
We'd all like to see Stone bowling. That's the problem, can't stay fit for more than 5 minutes.

I'll 'big up' Ben Sanderson again, another good start to the season will/should see him in the frame for a Test match.

Offline Oldhasbeen

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2019, 06:46:47 PM »
We'd all like to see Stone bowling. That's the problem, can't stay fit for more than 5 minutes.

I'll 'big up' Ben Sanderson again, another good start to the season will/should see him in the frame for a Test match.
I haven't seen Sanderson. If he gets a good start to the season, he's in with a big shout - if not quite as big a shout as any opener who can crack a few early season centuries.

I thought our guys bowled very well, especially Broad, and were very unlucky, one of the commentators counted over 100 play-and-misses. As for the batting, though....

Offline Andy

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2019, 08:28:20 PM »
I’d like to see someone like Sanderson come through...he’s not followed the usual route of being born abroad, coming to study here in a posh school, then having a couple of good seasons (plus a good agent) then whisked off to Team England and an IPL contract...

Offline Oldhasbeen

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2019, 10:39:04 AM »
 
I’d like to see someone like Sanderson come through...he’s not followed the usual route of being born abroad, coming to study here in a posh school, then having a couple of good seasons (plus a good agent) then whisked off to Team England and an IPL contract...
:) :) :) :)

Offline pablo

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2019, 03:16:15 PM »
The bigger problem is clearly with the batting though where we go with that is anyone's guess but will clearly be solved by the 100 ball competition ! It's clear too that Root , Buttler et al's warm up in the Big Bash and elsewhere has been an ideal preparation for this test series.
If you are centrally contracted by England you should play for England and nobody else until that contract comes to an end. If they don't like it we could play county players who are never likely to be auctioned to anybody. They could hardly have done worse than this lot!

Offline JasonP

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2019, 04:08:59 PM »
The bigger problem is clearly with the batting though where we go with that is anyone's guess but will clearly be solved by the 100 ball competition ! It's clear too that Root , Buttler et al's warm up in the Big Bash and elsewhere has been an ideal preparation for this test series.
If you are centrally contracted by England you should play for England and nobody else until that contract comes to an end. If they don't like it we could play county players who are never likely to be auctioned to anybody. They could hardly have done worse than this lot!

The likes of Stokes, Bairstow, Jennings, Denly, Ali etc who didn't warm up in the Big Bash hardly did that much better.  Buttler was our leading Test run scorer in the 2018 summer and his preparation was playing in the IPL.  I'm not sure why playing white ball cricket should be any worse than playing no cricket at all.    The problem is more the lack of proper warm up matches before the 1st test.   

Offline JasonP

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2019, 04:16:07 PM »
We'd all like to see Stone bowling. That's the problem, can't stay fit for more than 5 minutes.

I'll 'big up' Ben Sanderson again, another good start to the season will/should see him in the frame for a Test match.
I haven't seen Sanderson. If he gets a good start to the season, he's in with a big shout - if not quite as big a shout as any opener who can crack a few early season centuries.

I thought our guys bowled very well, especially Broad, and were very unlucky, one of the commentators counted over 100 play-and-misses. As for the batting, though....

He's not been picked for England Lions which suggests he's not that close.  I'm not sure taking wickets early season in Division 2 would make that much difference either.  Unless you have something a bit different like someone like Ollie Stone with his extra pace did last year, I'm not sure Div 2 wickets are particularly important.

Offline nat

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2019, 06:00:59 PM »
Well Div 2 runs are deemed important! (Denly).

Sanderson is good enough to get a lot of Div 1 wickets, a much better bowler than Gleeson who has gone to Lanky.

When have I ever let you down with my analysis?

Offline neil

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2019, 06:21:32 PM »
Well Div 2 runs are deemed important! (Denly).

Sanderson is good enough to get a lot of Div 1 wickets, a much better bowler than Gleeson who has gone to Lanky.

When have I ever let you down with my analysis?

#SimonHarmer

Offline JasonP

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2019, 08:54:48 AM »
Well Div 2 runs are deemed important! (Denly).

Sanderson is good enough to get a lot of Div 1 wickets, a much better bowler than Gleeson who has gone to Lanky.

When have I ever let you down with my analysis?

Denly averaged less than 35 last year, although he did get 3 centuries.  His selection was more to do with his white ball form and a hunch from Ed Smith than div 2 runs.  Also the total lack of any division 1 openers scoring any runs.  That's why Jennings was picked as well.
Maybe Sanderson is good enough to take div 1 wickets.  I'm certainly not saying he's not but the likes of Porter, Coad, Bailey, Gregory and the Overtons who do take div 1 wickets are well ahead of him I'd have thought. 

Offline Valentines Park

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Re: Antigua Test
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2019, 01:26:01 PM »
a hunch from Ed Smith

Kent bias you mean.

Even the Cheat might get a go at this rate which will at least afford some schadenfreude.