Author Topic: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!  (Read 15162 times)

Offline Andy

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2018, 10:54:54 AM »
Got to find batsmen that are not too one  day orientated and that is becoming increasingly difficult with all these one day competitions around the globe offering the big bucks, if you are a young pro cricketer you have to take a view of where can I make the best living?

Ever since one day cricket became significant in the county game, people have blamed it for ruining batsmens techniques or meaning that bowlers no longer know how to take 20 wickets. Strange how so many overseas stars played seasons for counties, but never had the same problems adjusting.

Back in the 1970s/80s England players had to swap from one day to five day to three day cricket in the same week, so they could be forgiven for struggling, but nowadays there is a tendency to have different formats in 'blocks', giving a few weeks before a test series starts, for example (albeit the quality of the preparation may need improving).

The impressive thing about Steve Smith is he clearly thinks on his feet and prepares well for each match. He may struggle more in damp conditions, but he gets less practice in those conditions.

Offline LeedsExile

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2018, 11:10:46 AM »
Who the hell does Bayliss think he is? Saying that he will leave after the 2019 Ashes is extreme arrogance. We have series before that against Pakistan, India and Sri Lanka that on current form we could well mess up. The much vaunted one day side have not actually won anything either. I would show him the door now and get in someone that actually knows about county cricket and who the best players are.

Offline pablo

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2018, 05:20:10 PM »
I agree with Leeds Exile. We need a coach with in depth knowledge of the county game who can spot potential as well as de facto talent e.g Trescothick who pulled up few trees in county cricket ( neither did Vaughan really for that matter) but Duncan Fletcher saw them consistently and adjudged correctly that they could make the transition to tests. Not playing in the height of Summer - another brilliant decision by the ECB- won't help our test prospects either, militating against pace and spin alike.

Does it really matter though as nobody apparently watches or is interested in test cricket?

 It was only watched live in this country last Summer by a quarter of a million people over 7 tests and a similar number were present over the series in OZ. It's on the back pages and sometimes the front of every newspaper and its the only cricket most people anywhere talk about. Who remembers what happened in our last 20;20 international ? Tests are the one yardstick that is used to determine whether people can play the game or not.

The crowds at the SAfrica v India tests looked encouragingly healthy and maybe with the onset of day; night tests things will change back more  emphasise the real game and its skills. Of course whatever happens we can trust the ECB to put its eggs in the basket of the new 10;10 game. The history, legacy and beauty of the game is safe in their hands.

Offline Valentines Park

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2018, 05:36:55 PM »
Duncan Fletcher saw them consistently and adjudged correctly that they could make the transition to tests.

Fletch was also a fan of Saj so he was capable of Larry-esque errors of judgement. 

Offline JasonP

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2018, 06:04:40 PM »
I agree with Leeds Exile. We need a coach with in depth knowledge of the county game who can spot potential as well as de facto talent e.g Trescothick who pulled up few trees in county cricket ( neither did Vaughan really for that matter) but Duncan Fletcher saw them consistently and adjudged correctly that they could make the transition to tests. Not playing in the height of Summer - another brilliant decision by the ECB- won't help our test prospects either, militating against pace and spin alike.

Does it really matter though as nobody apparently watches or is interested in test cricket?

 It was only watched live in this country last Summer by a quarter of a million people over 7 tests and a similar number were present over the series in OZ. It's on the back pages and sometimes the front of every newspaper and its the only cricket most people anywhere talk about. Who remembers what happened in our last 20;20 international ? Tests are the one yardstick that is used to determine whether people can play the game or not.

The crowds at the SAfrica v India tests looked encouragingly healthy and maybe with the onset of day; night tests things will change back more  emphasise the real game and its skills. Of course whatever happens we can trust the ECB to put its eggs in the basket of the new 10;10 game. The history, legacy and beauty of the game is safe in their hands.

The way things have gone for a fair few years now is that players go from county cricket to academies and England Lions Tours then on to Test Cricket.  Players are very rarely picked straight from county cricket to Test Cricket.  The two you mentioned, Vaughan and Trescothick, both played a fair bit of A Team cricket before Test Cricket.  Malan was picked for Test  matches partly on Bayliss recommendation after he did so well in the T20 international against South Africa.

Offline nat

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2018, 08:22:36 PM »
The trouble is ...
...
who is responsible for the England team? Root? Farbrace? Bayliss? Strauss? Shared responsibility is no responsibility.

Offline Andy

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2018, 10:30:23 AM »
Duncan Fletcher saw them consistently and adjudged correctly that they could make the transition to tests.

Fletch was also a fan of Saj so he was capable of Larry-esque errors of judgement.

But history is littered with those who looked the part, but came up short. As we see now, the problem with finding fast bowlers (and Saj was nippy) is they either get dragged down by playing too much county cricket if they're not fast tracked, or if they are promoted quickly they falter. DF is still a far better model for the picking of an overseas national coach, even without the test playing career background.

Offline nat

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2018, 10:49:53 AM »
Saj never 'looked the part' even at his best.

Offline Valentines Park

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2018, 11:09:02 AM »
DF is still a far better model for the picking of an overseas national coach.

He was so taciturn he could have originated from Yorkshire.

Which I suppose he did in a way seeing as Zimbabwe is really just northern South Africa.

ytsejam

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2018, 03:19:50 PM »
I tend to agree that this is early for Dan. I think the drop in form towards the end of last season was possibly a blessing. For player and club.

Agree totally. Hope its at least another 2 years before we lose him for most of the Summers :(
Can't afford to have him and Cook (and possibly Westley too) missing for a large part of the season!!

Offline Andy

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2018, 06:20:33 PM »
Saj never 'looked the part' even at his best.

He looked alright to me...until he released the ball. Lanky fans were very frustrated by him.

Offline Oldhasbeen

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2018, 08:14:55 AM »
Just seen the NZ squad. 8AM and I feel like a stiff drink already.

Same old, same old. For all Farbrace's fine words, where is the forward thinking? Vince, Broad, Moeen....NO, NO, NO!!!!!!!!!

Offline psb68

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2018, 12:46:07 PM »
Totally agree why take Broad Anderson give them a break because they won't be around to much longer and it would of been a great opportunity to take two younger quick bowlers,as for Vince and Ali they needed to dropped two give to other players ago we never plan for the future perhaps that's why we have gone backwards in the last two years in test cricket.

Offline Oldhasbeen

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2018, 12:59:34 PM »
A view from Australia:

"England makes pathetic reaction to Ashes humiliation" .... "ONLY England Cricket could find a way to make their Ashes humiliation worse."

Read the whole thing (if you can bear it) at
http://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/england-makes-pathetic-reaction-to-ashes-humiliation/news-story/eb58749069d1475e121031c75eab3e0a

Offline Andy

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Re: Final Ashes test and on to NZ!
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2018, 10:56:06 PM »
A view from Australia:

"England makes pathetic reaction to Ashes humiliation" .... "ONLY England Cricket could find a way to make their Ashes humiliation worse."

Read the whole thing (if you can bear it) at
http://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/england-makes-pathetic-reaction-to-ashes-humiliation/news-story/eb58749069d1475e121031c75eab3e0a

This is pathetic journalism. So, Otto wouldn't have taken a fit again Wood? Stokes? An improving Livingston? But kept faith with Ballance and Ball? Whoever we'd have taken would make us a laughing stock to this joker. I'd see better writing from Otto the School Bus Driver in The Simpsons...and he's usually stoned!