Author Topic: Ashes 2017-18  (Read 47004 times)

Offline bwildered

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2017, 03:34:32 PM »
2nd Test .
Looks like a unconvincing batting display, picking off a unconvincing bowling display. England bowlers to much of a muchness and require one with a extra yard to cause different problems .

Offline nat

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2017, 03:51:57 PM »
From when I tuned in (7:30am UK) I thought we bowled ok Woakes excepted. Overton confirmed the good impression I have of him.

Not for the first time it looks like Woakes has been over-coached. Lost the ability to move he ball in the search to be quicker. Bowlers have a 'natural' pace which is learned early. Too often coaches say/do too much. Less is more.

Online Oldhasbeen

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2017, 05:39:18 PM »
From when I tuned in (7:30am UK) I thought we bowled ok Woakes excepted. Overton confirmed the good impression I have of him.

Not for the first time it looks like Woakes has been over-coached. Lost the ability to move he ball in the search to be quicker. Bowlers have a 'natural' pace which is learned early. Too often coaches say/do too much. Less is more.
Don't entirely agree. Anderson had a real off-day, bowling far too short too often. Woakes wasn't great but he got one wicket and would have had another had Stoneman not shelled it.  Overton looked OK, not express pace but I like his confidence.

Offline LeedsExile

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2017, 09:05:28 AM »
The Headingley declaration resulting in the loss to the West Indies was dismissed as adventurous captaincy. The decision to insert here was bewildering and will probably rank alongside other "great errors" such as made by Hussain and Ponting. Perhaps it is time to christen him "calamity Joe"? I have a strong feeling we are heading towards another 5-0 against what cannot possibly be described as a strong Australia side.

Offline bwildered

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2017, 09:11:32 AM »
Now need to get similar score after conceding far to many in the first innings, to stay in this game .

Online Oldhasbeen

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2017, 09:53:59 AM »
The Headingley declaration resulting in the loss to the West Indies was dismissed as adventurous captaincy. The decision to insert here was bewildering and will probably rank alongside other "great errors" such as made by Hussain and Ponting. Perhaps it is time to christen him "calamity Joe"? I have a strong feeling we are heading towards another 5-0 against what cannot possibly be described as a strong Australia side.

Ally was often criticised by the pundits for being too cautious / conventional - many of them opined England could have won the first test in India last winter if not for his conservatism. Maybe Joe has swung too far the other way, with funky fields galore? Before the "sack the captain" campaign starts, however, remember he's on a learning curve - and a very steep one.

In his defence, however, it must be said that he couldn't have foreseen all the experienced England seamers all bowling below par in helpful conditions on day 1.  Jimmy, in particular, had a real stinker, possibly the worst opening spell he's produced for England for a decade. But even the very best have their bad days.

stoneman out now. Hard to see us saving this one .

Online Oldhasbeen

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2017, 10:49:48 AM »
Desperate times calling for desperate measure? A good littlearticle:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21649446/england-look-wood-pace-deficit-starts-tell

.. and a very enightening statistic:

"England's average new ball length was 7.363m from the stumps. Australia's length is 5.87m from the stumps. #Ashes"

Offline nat

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2017, 12:26:00 PM »
Desperate times calling for desperate measure? A good littlearticle:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21649446/england-look-wood-pace-deficit-starts-tell

.. and a very enightening statistic:

"England's average new ball length was 7.363m from the stumps. Australia's length is 5.87m from the stumps. #Ashes"

We shouldn't be picking bowlers just because they are fast. Those with long memories will recall Alan Ward (Derbyshire), Martin McCague and Jon Agnew amongst others who were bad selections for this reason.

Online JasonP

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2017, 12:34:10 PM »
Desperate times calling for desperate measure? A good littlearticle:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21649446/england-look-wood-pace-deficit-starts-tell

.. and a very enightening statistic:

"England's average new ball length was 7.363m from the stumps. Australia's length is 5.87m from the stumps. #Ashes"

We shouldn't be picking bowlers just because they are fast. Those with long memories will recall Alan Ward (Derbyshire), Martin McCague and Jon Agnew amongst others who were bad selections for this reason.

A bunch of fast medium bowlers doesn't work in places like Australia or in the sub continent.  You need something a bit different to win matches there.  The problem is we don't have anyone like that to pick from.  It's a shame Footitt had his problems this summer as maybe he could have played. 

Online Oldhasbeen

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2017, 04:42:32 PM »
Desperate times calling for desperate measure? A good littlearticle:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21649446/england-look-wood-pace-deficit-starts-tell

.. and a very enightening statistic:

"England's average new ball length was 7.363m from the stumps. Australia's length is 5.87m from the stumps. #Ashes"

We shouldn't be picking bowlers just because they are fast. Those with long memories will recall Alan Ward (Derbyshire), Martin McCague and Jon Agnew amongst others who were bad selections for this reason.

A bunch of fast medium bowlers doesn't work in places like Australia or in the sub continent.  You need something a bit different to win matches there.  The problem is we don't have anyone like that to pick from.  It's a shame Footitt had his problems this summer as maybe he could have played.
Agree a bunch of F-M bowlers won't do it in Aus. (Not so sure about the subcontinent, though.)
Nasser often used to say that England lacked the "X-factor" bowler, probably a speed man or a leggie, who could get wickts when the others couldn't. Or to wipe out a stubborn tail, I might add. Footit, if fit & firing, could have been useful in offering something different, even if he's not express pace.  Ditto Steve Finn, with his height & bounce. At the moment, Mark Wood & Mason Crane are the only candidates who might provide us with that  X-factor, as far as I can see.  Both would be big gambles.

Offline nat

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2017, 05:32:48 PM »
Replace Woakes with Crane. Nothing wrong with bowling 80mph as long as the ball is doing something. David Masters could seam the ball on a motorway.

Offline bwildered

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2017, 06:45:13 PM »
Two big  gambles if available would have been, Topley & Mills !! But it is now about the batsman .

Online JasonP

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2017, 07:55:41 PM »
Replace Woakes with Crane. Nothing wrong with bowling 80mph as long as the ball is doing something. David Masters could seam the ball on a motorway.

Bowling with Dukes balls in England is very different to bowling with Australian Kookaburra balls.  The Kookaburra ball does nothing after the first few overs.

Offline Heisenberg

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2017, 11:38:59 AM »
Desperate times calling for desperate measure? A good littlearticle:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21649446/england-look-wood-pace-deficit-starts-tell

.. and a very enightening statistic:

"England's average new ball length was 7.363m from the stumps. Australia's length is 5.87m from the stumps. #Ashes"

We shouldn't be picking bowlers just because they are fast. Those with long memories will recall Alan Ward (Derbyshire), Martin McCague and Jon Agnew amongst others who were bad selections for this reason.

A bunch of fast medium bowlers doesn't work in places like Australia or in the sub continent.  You need something a bit different to win matches there.  The problem is we don't have anyone like that to pick from.  It's a shame Footitt had his problems this summer as maybe he could have played.

We have been unlucky with injuries to Roland-Jones and Finn. Mark Wood and Liam Plunkett both not fit. No Ben Stokes either.

I would say the fastest bowlers in England not selected:

Stuart Meaker
Olly Stone
Richard Gleeson
Mark Footitt
Jamie Overton
James Fuller

The same old faces get picked for the Lions. Its always the likes of Tom Helm, Saqib Mahmood, George Garton, Paul Coughlin etc.

Online Oldhasbeen

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2017, 12:40:56 PM »

We have been unlucky with injuries to Roland-Jones and Finn. Mark Wood and Liam Plunkett both not fit. No Ben Stokes either.

I would say the fastest bowlers in England not selected:

Stuart Meaker
Olly Stone
Richard Gleeson
Mark Footitt
Jamie Overton
James Fuller

The same old faces get picked for the Lions. Its always the likes of Tom Helm, Saqib Mahmood, George Garton, Paul Coughlin etc.
I think Jamie Overton's injured and Mark Footit screwed his chance sup with his fannying about last season.