England shambles

[Valentines Park]

I get the feeling the Ashes were lost months ago

On the Friday at the Oval when England played some of the worst cricket I've ever seen.

Certainly the dullest.

[firehazard]

I get the feeling the Ashes were lost months ago

On the Friday at the Oval when England played some of the worst cricket I've ever seen.

Certainly the dullest.

I tend to agree. Lost any initiative they had, partly owing to frankly bizarre selection.

[Oldhasbeen]

Good article by Alec Stewart

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/25422259

Food for thought, but I don't entirely agree with him. "Will Ballance score more runs than KP?" is one question, but "which of KP & GB will play for the team, and which for themselves?" is another, and IMO an equally important one. Or how about the message endless  "same again" selections send out,  both to the team and the rest of the cricketing world. We can't carry on rewarding failure for ever.

Prior looks mentally shot. Anderson just ineffective, maybe knackered.  Alternatives with 10+ tests each are out there i.e. Tremlett, Monty, Finn & Bairstow.  Surely 3 changes are needed. If the pitch isn't offering any help to spinners, maybe time for an all-seamer attack?

[pablo]

I still don't get the argument that these players are knackered. For the only time in my life I agree with Bob Willis who torpedoed this argument about jadedness the other night. Most of this squad hadn't played a serious game of cricket for months before the Brisbane test and some like Cook seem now only to play in International games and the odd contrived friendly. That can't be right if one is trying to gain form and momentum.

[Postman]

I still don't get the argument that these players are knackered. For the only time in my life I agree with Bob Willis who torpedoed this argument about jadedness the other night. Most of this squad hadn't played a serious game of cricket for months before the Brisbane test and some like Cook seem now only to play in International games and the odd contrived friendly. That can't be right if one is trying to gain form and momentum.

That would be the Willis whose appearances in county cricket were so rare that one of his bowling spells was preceded by the cry "Bowler's name?", would it?

[Oldhasbeen]

I still don't get the argument that these players are knackered. For the only time in my life I agree with Bob Willis who torpedoed this argument about jadedness the other night. Most of this squad hadn't played a serious game of cricket for months before the Brisbane test and some like Cook seem now only to play in International games and the odd contrived friendly. That can't be right if one is trying to gain form and momentum.

I don't claim that the whole squad is knackered, just Anderson could be.
That England players, particularly batsmen, were forced to "rest" in September does strike me as ludicrous.   
Bob Willis always sends me reaching for the "mute" button. He talks even more rubbish than Botham these days, if such a thing is possible.

[nat]

I still don't get the argument that these players are knackered. For the only time in my life I agree with Bob Willis who torpedoed this argument about jadedness the other night. Most of this squad hadn't played a serious game of cricket for months before the Brisbane test and some like Cook seem now only to play in International games and the odd contrived friendly. That can't be right if one is trying to gain form and momentum.

That would be the Willis whose appearances in county cricket were so rare that one of his bowling spells was preceded by the cry "Bowler's name?", would it?

Haha yes I remember that. Willis is generally an oaf but on this subject I agree with him. Do the top golfers for example stay at the top of their game by;

a) practiciing
b) sitting on their backsides

Ref: Gary Player ("....the more I practice the luckier I get")

[nat]

...

... 
Bob Willis always sends me reaching for the "mute" button. He talks even more rubbish than Botham these days, if such a thing is possible.

It's a close run thing. Botham must be employed as a social service...the worst captain in living memory.

[Andy]

I think that if you look at the amount of cricket played through a 12 month period, then there is a case for being 'jaded'. Remember that the likes of Johnson only got back in because the younger bowlers were injured!

The problem is that summer 2013 saw meaningless ODIs/Tests early season followed by back to back Ashes series a World Cup then back into the next summer season. This is why there were the enforced rests. However, I still think that the full story will come out if certain senior pros/ Flower decide to call it a day after Christmas...

[Oldhasbeen]

...

... 
Bob Willis always sends me reaching for the "mute" button. He talks even more rubbish than Botham these days, if such a thing is possible.

It's a close run thing. Botham must be employed as a social service...the worst captain in living memory.

I remember a few years ago Botham & Gower pontificating about  Michael Vaughan's alleged shortcomings as a captain. The expression on the face of Nasser Hussain, who was quite literally speechless, said it all: the two worst captains in recent English cricket history tell one of the best how to do it.

[DT]

Well the wheels have well and truely come off now with the ego Swann giving up during a series because he was about to be ditched - gone down massively IMHO now and I'm sure many others.  But let's be honest, he's been on the poor side for 2 years or so now when you consider the same poor Aussies who let him take wickets in the summer are now smashing all over the land...

[squarelegumpire]

Botham is an excellent example of the reason you don't make your most successful player either captain or coach.

[eastsax]

England are up the swanee good and proper (not sure if there's not a pun in there somewhere) and goodness knows how the carnage left - and it doesn't look like getting any better - after this series  is going to get sorted. I'm no conspiracy theorist usually, but I think Swann's timing is suspect. I also wonder if it would have happened so untimely should we have been 3-0 up instead of the reverse ?

[eastsax]

Botham is an excellent example of the reason you don't make your most successful player either captain or coach.

Like Cook, another class act with the bat in fellow left-hander, David Gower, springs mind.One series apart ,he made a less than convincing England captain.

[nat]

Re: Swan, I'm reminded of a saying by quite a well known and successful football manager ...
...
Team spirit is a myth, perpetuated only by success.

No sign of team spirit with Swan. Going to be dropped so decides that's it. Didn't fancy carrying the drinks for his 'team mates' even though they have had to do it for him.

I'm increasingly of the view that this shambles is a failure of management (as are all failures btw). Various personnel issues have been apparent for a while and the management team have failed to act.