Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: bwildered on October 27, 2025, 12:45:20 PM
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Australia have confirmed captain Pat Cummins will not be fit for the first Ashes Test, with Steve Smith set to lead the side in his absence.
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Hazlewood missed four games and Cummings one test, last time around, so beware?
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Well, just having Mitchell Starc seems to be enough. What a shocking batting performance: 172 all out in 32.5 overs. The England bowling might yet get them back in it, but England are chasing the game now. So disappointing.
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Wow. What a day's cricket!. After such an awful England batting performance, Australia did even worse in the face of some excellent England bowling. England now one wicket away from a first innings lead. 19 wickets fell in the day.
Test cricket- the best form of the greatest game.
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Dull and predictable. Test cricket at its least exciting. Clearly petering out into a draw.
Just three sentences that will not be written after the first day of the 2526 Ashes.
But will the WA Cricket Board and Cricket Australia lose a packet even if their team wins tomorrow?
Will a pitch inspector be dispatched to Western Australia?
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What a fantastic bowling performance by England on what must have been a spicy pitch, presumably prepared to cause England more trouble than Australia. It?s a great feeling to start a test series in Australia in such a way after minimal preparation!
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I am nervous that England will succeed in messing it up, in the 2nd Innings.
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I am nervous that England will succeed in messing it up, in the 2nd Innings.
Don't be nervous. Be confident that they will mess it up.
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Yes, always likely
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They did.
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Here, in Oz, lies the body of Bazball. And take Rob Key with you.
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Well that was shocking.
?We know that the preparation we put in works for us? said Ben Stokes in a post game interview with TMS. It clearly didn't. They played one warmup game amongst themselves. The last time England won the Ashes under Andy Flower in 2010/11 they played several warmup games. It might have been worth a try lads. (much blame is attached to Rob Key and Brendan McCullum for this). Now they're talking about the batsmen not playing the pink ball warmup game. It's arrogance.
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It was pointed out on Radio 5. That England to have forgone any further play, before the next test. Due to their complete lack of understanding of the conditions. They now have an extra three days, before they play again.
With most of the England bowling, they telegraphed what type of ball it was going to be, before it was released.
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In boxing, if a boxer is due to fight a certain type of opponent. They get the same in as sparring partners. England should get Australians who are similar, to bowl to them in practice. With a pink ball and at the right time of day.
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Starc , a different class to the rest , not going to face him in in house warm ups.
Well in this game at lunchtime second day, that?s five sessions, and got blown away in the next two.
Easily got the required runs, on the chase Bradley Walsh would have said, on that performance to beat the chaser would have needed another 300.
Bowlers superb first innings was the only positive on this performance, sadly with the bat could not get out easily enough.
Players walked off at the end shell shocked, like soldiers back from the Somme, well at least they did not lack moral fibre. Bowling no ball bumpers at the end was disgraceful.
Perhaps at the start of next season we will need to leave reef for England Red ball cricket .
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My impression of the pre bazball era was that the team was scared to play positively. Once this regime took over there is a fear of being seen as negative. Teams often absorb the neuroses of the captain and coach. Sadly that is what has happened here. Brook and Root are being destroyed by the leadership.
Mike Brearley would have a field day probing the mind of Baz and Ben.
We are making a fairly ordinary Aussie team that has selection and fitness issues look world beaters.
The sport in this country has systemic issues that could be offset by a sensible national side. I am almost worried that this team will bounce back in the next test and forget about all this we will lose the series but the same idiots will be in charge until the next Ashes.
The warnings were there in 2023 when we threw away the first two tests when we could have ground down the Aussies.
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My impression of the pre bazball era was that the team was scared to play positively. Once this regime took over there is a fear of being seen as negative. Teams often absorb the neuroses of the captain and coach. Sadly that is what has happened here. Brook and Root are being destroyed by the leadership.
Mike Brearley would have a field day probing the mind of Baz and Ben.
We are making a fairly ordinary Aussie team that has selection and fitness issues look world beaters.
The sport in this country has systemic issues that could be offset by a sensible national side. I am almost worried that this team will bounce back in the next test and forget about all this we will lose the series but the same idiots will be in charge until the next Ashes.
The warnings were there in 2023 when we threw away the first two tests when we could have ground down the Aussies.
They're ranked numbers one and two in the World for their performances under this leadership! I'm not sure they're being destroyed too much!
https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/batting/mens/test
They're just an incredibly one dimensional team. The batsmen are all told to play one way, which is in 4th or 5th gear all of the time and Key and McCullum seem to think the only way to take wickets is to find the quickest bowlers they have, rather than the best ones. They're never going to be consistant as a team playing this way, it's always going to be peaks and troughs. On these pitches it's going to be a lot more troughs than peaks. On flatter wickets probably the opposite.
Robert Key comes across terribly when trying to talk cricket. Like he's the smart one and that everyone who disagrees with him is some kind of dinosaur.
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No action will be taken to resolve the issues before the next test. The ground is now free for three days. That would be ideal to practice getting used to the conditions.
The Test Match Special scorer, in line with an Essex T20 game. Was chipping in, with yet another record England had broken with their ineptitude.
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No action will be taken to resolve the issues before the next test. The ground is now free for three days. That would be ideal to practice getting used to the conditions.
The Test Match Special scorer, in line with an Essex T20 game. Was chipping in, with yet another record England had broken with their ineptitude.
Perth tends to have more pace and bounce than the other pitches in Australia so I'm not if that would be the case or not.
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It is said in Australia that the ball moves a little quicker. Taking a catch, before you have adjusted. Is catching it next to your ear.
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They're ranked numbers one and two in the World for their performances under this leadership! I'm not sure they're being destroyed too much!
https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/batting/mens/test
They're just an incredibly one dimensional team. The batsmen are all told to play one way, which is in 4th or 5th gear all of the time and Key and McCullum seem to think the only way to take wickets is to find the quickest bowlers they have, rather than the best ones. They're never going to be consistant as a team playing this way, it's always going to be peaks and troughs. On these pitches it's going to be a lot more troughs than peaks. On flatter wickets probably the opposite.
Robert Key comes across terribly when trying to talk cricket. Like he's the smart one and that everyone who disagrees with him is some kind of dinosaur.
Well throwing statistics around is OK but who are they scoring against and the state of play in the match as well as pitch and atmospheric conditions. As Sir Jack Hobbs said, I am paid to score runs when conditions are tough.
It is NOT the speed you score in Test cricket it is how many. Essex used to follow a similar approach in three day cricket back in the 1950s and 60s because we had a poor top order and played on dodgy wickets. If Tonker or Barry Knight could slog a few we might force a win and there was no punishment for losing.
Be positive in what you do even if it is letting the ball go early on. I actually don?t disagree with the need to put in bowlers who are faster and hit the deck, but the brainless way in which they bowled in the second innings contrasts with Boland who responded to his poor bowling first dig.
Root tried to play bazball when Stokes took over then wised up. I fear he has been got at and regressed.
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This team do not know the difference between being positive and aggressive.
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They're ranked numbers one and two in the World for their performances under this leadership! I'm not sure they're being destroyed too much!
https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/batting/mens/test
They're just an incredibly one dimensional team. The batsmen are all told to play one way, which is in 4th or 5th gear all of the time and Key and McCullum seem to think the only way to take wickets is to find the quickest bowlers they have, rather than the best ones. They're never going to be consistant as a team playing this way, it's always going to be peaks and troughs. On these pitches it's going to be a lot more troughs than peaks. On flatter wickets probably the opposite.
Robert Key comes across terribly when trying to talk cricket. Like he's the smart one and that everyone who disagrees with him is some kind of dinosaur.
Well throwing statistics around is OK but who are they scoring against and the state of play in the match as well as pitch and atmospheric conditions. As Sir Jack Hobbs said, I am paid to score runs when conditions are tough.
It is NOT the speed you score in Test cricket it is how many. Essex used to follow a similar approach in three day cricket back in the 1950s and 60s because we had a poor top order and played on dodgy wickets. If Tonker or Barry Knight could slog a few we might force a win and there was no punishment for losing.
Be positive in what you do even if it is letting the ball go early on. I actually don?t disagree with the need to put in bowlers who are faster and hit the deck, but the brainless way in which they bowled in the second innings contrasts with Boland who responded to his poor bowling first dig.
Root tried to play bazball when Stokes took over then wised up. I fear he has been got at and regressed.
The world rankings take all this into account. That?s the whole point of them.
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They're ranked numbers one and two in the World for their performances under this leadership! I'm not sure they're being destroyed too much!
https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/batting/mens/test
They're just an incredibly one dimensional team. The batsmen are all told to play one way, which is in 4th or 5th gear all of the time and Key and McCullum seem to think the only way to take wickets is to find the quickest bowlers they have, rather than the best ones. They're never going to be consistant as a team playing this way, it's always going to be peaks and troughs. On these pitches it's going to be a lot more troughs than peaks. On flatter wickets probably the opposite.
Robert Key comes across terribly when trying to talk cricket. Like he's the smart one and that everyone who disagrees with him is some kind of dinosaur.
The world rankings take all this into account. That?s the whole point of them.
There is only one thing that matters that is The Ashes. Root cannot score a century in Australia. If he does not break that statistic he will always be remembered for that. We will see by the New Year where Root and Brook are in the rankings.
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The trouble is that performances like that bring test match cricket into disrepute & turn off many of their supporters. I now have little interest in the rest of the test series as I expect the same to happen again & again. I thought an element of pragmatism had started to emerge last season but clearly that?s been ditched & we?re back to utterly thoughtless cricket!
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Starc , a different class to the rest , not going to face him in in house warm ups.
Well in this game at lunchtime second day, that?s five sessions, and got blown away in the next two.
Easily got the required runs, on the chase Bradley Walsh would have said, on that performance to beat the chaser would have needed another 300.
Bowlers superb first innings was the only positive on this performance, sadly with the bat could not get out easily enough.
Players walked off at the end shell shocked, like soldiers back from the Somme, well at least they did not lack moral fibre. Bowling no ball bumpers at the end was disgraceful.
Perhaps at the start of next season we will need to leave reef for England Red ball cricket .
You were clearly shell shocked when you attempted that post Bewildered!
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Although, there is a statement that the Test team will not play in the warm-up game. At a press conference, it was stated that options are open.
Found the panic button early, have you?
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Starc , a different class to the rest , not going to face him in in house warm ups.
Well in this game at lunchtime second day, that?s five sessions, and got blown away in the next two.
Easily got the required runs, on the chase Bradley Walsh would have said, on that performance to beat the chaser would have needed another 300.
Bowlers superb first innings was the only positive on this performance, sadly with the bat could not get out easily enough.
Players walked off at the end shell shocked, like soldiers back from the Somme, well at least they did not lack moral fibre. Bowling no ball bumpers at the end was disgraceful.
Perhaps at the start of next season we will need to leave reef for England Red ball cricket .
You were clearly shell shocked when you attempted that post Bewildered!
On the sauce...again.
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Although, there is a statement that the Test team will not play in the warm-up game. At a press conference, it was stated that options are open.
Found the panic button early, have you?
It'll just be Bethell, Potts and Tongue, none of the current test top 7. Playing a warmup game with a pink ball under lights to prepare for a pink ball test under lights might have been a good idea, but they know best I guess...
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Although, there is a statement that the Test team will not play in the warm-up game. At a press conference, it was stated that options are open.
Found the panic button early, have you?
It'll just be Bethell, Potts and Tongue, none of the current test top 7. Playing a warmup game with a pink ball under lights to prepare for a pink ball test under lights might have been a good idea, but they know best I guess...
Yes plenty of justification for not doing the obvious. Why not just select the Lions top order instead? They could not do any worse
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If they lose badly in Brisbane then things will turn very ugly. Already a lot of very angry England supporters who have spent a lot of money and time to follow the team.
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When England played a disaster of a series in India, when Keith Fletcher was in charge. A disgruntled England fan, kept on repeating the score and stating how much it had cost to go out there.
This time, the protests will be a lot more. Although, looking at the mentality of some of the supporters. They will get it out of their system, by cutting out the middle man and beating each other up.
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Captain Cummings still unavailable, now one up no need for him to rush back.
Apparently Smith and Atkinson have not played with the pinky, does not bode well !!
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If the performance is worse than before. England might as well come home early. I doubt no Australian, will get any real pleasure out of it.
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Well is 325 a competitive score in this game? Ironically there might have been a case for declaring to put them in under the lights. The problem was that the brainstorm by our captain took us from a position where he could have attacked and got us to 300 with time to spare.
I am not sure the innings will last long tomorrow which is a pity as they could struggle against the new ball under lights.
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Well is 325 a competitive score in this game? Ironically there might have been a case for declaring to put them in under the lights. The problem was that the brainstorm by our captain took us from a position where he could have attacked and got us to 300 with time to spare.
I am not sure the innings will last long tomorrow which is a pity as they could struggle against the new ball under lights.
I reckon 400 is a par score.
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The way they took our attack apart in the last test I doubt that our score will be adequate.
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Several opportunities to take control of the game were not taken today, cannot afford for them to take there?s , so need to bowl like the the first innings in the last test.
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It looks as though, it will not be over within 2 days.
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Oh dearie me, a case of the butter fingers. Which, I never knew, was contagious.
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Oh dearie me, a case of the butter fingers. Which, I never knew, was contagious.
Out batted, out bowled and out fielded. Ashes will done and dusted before Christmas and we can then bury Bazzball and all who sail with her.
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Oh dearie me, a case of the butter fingers. Which, I never knew, was contagious.
Out batted, out bowled and out fielded. Ashes will done and dusted before Christmas and we can then bury Bazzball and all who sail with her.
I would agree but this England side could get hammered in 4 Tests and win the last against the Aussie third choice side and claim progress is being made.
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I would agree but this England side could get hammered in 4 Tests and win the last against the Aussie third choice side and claim progress is being made.
That's what so disappointing about this series so far. This is the worst Aussie side for years (no Cummins, no Hazelwood and by their own choice this match no Lyon) and yet they will still probably win 5-0. And this is a good England side, they're just not helping themselves with the dropped catches, the poor preparation, the always "go harder" approach.
Of course they could fight back tomorrow and bowl out Australia 4th innings to win a momentous victory to prove all the doubters wrong. And I hope they do.
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I would agree but this England side could get hammered in 4 Tests and win the last against the Aussie third choice side and claim progress is being made.
That's what so disappointing about this series so far. This is the worst Aussie side for years (no Cummins, no Hazelwood and by their own choice this match no Lyon) and yet they will still probably win 5-0. And this is a good England side, they're just not helping themselves with the dropped catches, the poor preparation, the always "go harder" approach.
Of course they could fight back tomorrow and bowl out Australia 4th innings to win a momentous victory to prove all the doubters wrong. And I hope they do.
The bowling is very average. Very one dimensional. I get that we've lost in Australia the last 3 series but the conditions over there are more bowler friendly now. They seem obsessed with bowlers banging the ball in the pitch. Over the last few years our most successful bowler by far has been Jimmy Anderson, he took 24 wickets last time we won a series over there. Yet we seem to have no interest in finding the next Anderson, just looking a bunch of tall guys that bowl 90mph plus. Add to that picking a part timer as spinner and there's no variety whatsoever.
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England are not a good side. Picking a combined team how many England players would be selected? Root and er, ...that's it.
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May be the experts on here can explain why I'm wrong but I simply can't understand the obsession with banging the ball in short for over after over. It negates bowled or lbw as a method of dismissal and it's like long ball football, ok as a tactic in its place but tedious and one dimensional as a default approach. Only Stokes was bowling with any kind of intelligence.
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England are not a good side. Picking a combined team how many England players would be selected? Root and er, ...that's it.
Root, Brook and Duckett are all ranked in the top 10 batsmen in International cricket and would easily get in. Weatherarld is 31 and only just been picked when they've been struggling for an opener, Labuschagne was dropped a couple of tests ago because he'd been poor for 2 years, Inglis is unproven. Green has been as average with the bat as Stokes in the last year and Stokes offers a lot more with the ball.
Generally over the last couple of years the England batting has been a lot better than the Aussies has.
Smith should be a better batsmen than Carey. He started incredibly well. He made 184* from 207 balls and 88 from 99 in the second innngs against India last summer but has really faded since.
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Bowled like in the Carribean first session, and sadly thereafter played like the women?s team twelve months previous. Just cannot compete if only three do themselves any justice.
Positive, we made it to the third day .
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Is an innings defeat on the cards???
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England are not a good side. Picking a combined team how many England players would be selected? Root and er, ...that's it.
It was actually precisely the opposite before the series began. That is the tragedy of not having adequate preparation & being poorly managed.
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So Starc scored more runs than all our batsmen except Root! He?s practically beating us single handed.
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England are not a good side. Picking a combined team how many England players would be selected? Root and er, ...that's it.
It was actually precisely the opposite before the series began. That is the tragedy of not having adequate preparation & being poorly managed.
Delusional to think that England are/were a better team than Australia.
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Smith should be a better batsmen than Carey. He started incredibly well. He made 184* from 207 balls and 88 from 99 in the second innings against India last summer but has really faded since.
Maybe the dual role is too much for him? I wouldn't be surprised to see Durham's Ollie Robinson behind the stumps next year, with Jamie S as a specialist batsmen.
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Smith should be a better batsmen than Carey. He started incredibly well. He made 184* from 207 balls and 88 from 99 in the second innings against India last summer but has really faded since.
Maybe the dual role is too much for him? I wouldn't be surprised to see Durham's Ollie Robinson behind the stumps next year, with Jamie S as a specialist batsmen.
I think Smith is worth a go at 3 instead of Pope. They're wasting his batting by having him as keeper. My guess is that they'll give the gloves to one of the Rews.
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Smith should be a better batsmen than Carey. He started incredibly well. He made 184* from 207 balls and 88 from 99 in the second innings against India last summer but has really faded since.
Maybe the dual role is too much for him? I wouldn't be surprised to see Durham's Ollie Robinson behind the stumps next year, with Jamie S as a specialist batsmen.
I think Smith is worth a go at 3 instead of Pope. They're wasting his batting by having him as keeper. My guess is that they'll give the gloves to one of the Rews.
Maybe - we have a few good options for keepers. Shame I can't say the same about opening batsmen, number 3s or spinners
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May be the experts on here can explain why I'm wrong but I simply can't understand the obsession with banging the ball in short for over after over. It negates bowled or lbw as a method of dismissal and it's like long ball football, ok as a tactic in its place but tedious and one dimensional as a default approach. Only Stokes was bowling with any kind of intelligence.
But Stokes is the captain who has masterminded our strategies? I am beginning to think Mccullum is not delusional but deliberately trying to destroy the Test team.
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It was actually precisely the opposite before the series began. That is the tragedy of not having adequate preparation & being poorly managed.
Delusional to think that England are/were a better team than Australia.
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They certainly don?t look that way now but they are so up & down, more down in recent times. Someone needs to tot up the ranking points for each player, before the series started, to get an accurate assessment but I doubt if it?s clear cut as you state, though of course you?re always right!
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This is shaping up to being one of our worst pair of Test defeats & surely seems like an ignominious final chapter for Stokes & McCallum.
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This is shaping up to being one of our worst pair of Test defeats & surely seems like an ignominious final chapter for Stokes & McCallum.
Agreed. And if Baz & Ben go, I don't rate the chances of Zak, Ollie & Bash of staying in the Test team
But I've no idea who the next cabs off the ranks will be.
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Problem seems to me that the idea of playing without fear is coming from a place of fear.
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Problem seems to me that the idea of playing without fear is coming from a place of fear.
It's coming from a place of arrogance. Thinking that playing 2020 cricket and a couple of nets is adequate preparation for playing Test match cricket in Australia. As a consequence the bowlers are undercooked, the batsmen are undercooked, the fielding is undercooked and the captaincy is undercooked.
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The preparation, is the same as someone who smokes and drinks throughout the week. Then does not smoke and only have a half pint, in the morning. And then thinks everything will be alright on the pitch.
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Problem seems to me that the idea of playing without fear is coming from a place of fear.
It's coming from a place of arrogance. Thinking that playing 2020 cricket and a couple of nets is adequate preparation for playing Test match cricket in Australia. As a consequence the bowlers are undercooked, the batsmen are undercooked, the fielding is undercooked and the captaincy is undercooked.
I think you mean raw. I suspect the Root regime was undermined by Stokes and his ego. He had some success but this is going to be embarrassing.
I wonder if there will be an open top bus ride around London next year?
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England don't pick bowlers out of the championship. They want tall, quick, bowlers. The Aussies are using Doggett Neser and Boland and are almost two ahead. Would any of them be picked by England?
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England don't pick bowlers out of the championship. They want tall, quick, bowlers. The Aussies are using Doggett Neser and Boland and are almost two ahead. Would any of them be picked by England?
No...and that is the point.
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Never have so many contributed so less for the Battle of the Ashes .
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Looking at the last two tests it seems Bazball is up, running and perfected by the Aussies.
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"Coach Brendon McCullum said England trained "too much" while captain Ben Stokes raised questions about his side's mentality after their crushing defeat by Australia in the second Test."
What a joke - trained 'too much' - he needs to go now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/c9qeyn3x4elo
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Baz has a contract until after the 2027 World Cup. It would cost the ECB too much to get rid of him. I think Rob Key will be the one to go.
Apparently they don't have a dedicated fielding coach, or a wicket keeping one (that's Baz) and only recruited David Saker at the last minute. Their fabled preparation seems to have been anything but. Add that to the lack of warm up games and someone has to take the fall for this shambles.
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/dec/07/england-to-seek-better-warmup-preparations-ahead-of-next-ashes-series-cricket
The England & Wales Cricket Board is ready to offer Australia their pick of warm-up facilities before the next Ashes series in 2027, in an attempt to secure similar treatment when England return in 2029-30 and avoid being forced into the kind of buildup that preceded the current series and has become the focus of intense criticism.
England's preparations are under the microscope given their dismal start to this series, with the first Test lost inside two days and the second lost in four, with Australia's winning margins eight wickets both times. "If I was an England supporter and had paid the money to come here, I'd be asking the ECB for a refund," Ian Botham said on Sunday. "Because this team, for me, is not prepared."
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Never going to be prepared if you are prepared to play several one day games within a five day test.
Aussies still to play test match cricket in the five days, we seem not.
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As regards the lack of facilities. When England lost 5-0 in The West Indies. A critique, of the tour. Responding to the excuse of limited facilities that were available. Stated, that the management were unable to try and make something out of what little there was.
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England don't pick bowlers out of the championship. They want tall, quick, bowlers. The Aussies are using Doggett Neser and Boland and are almost two ahead. Would any of them be picked by England?
No...and that is the point.
To be fair those you have named are not great bowlers compared to McGrath and the currently injured bowlers. But they like the batsmen simply bowl to a coherent plan and are prepared to adjust for the conditions.
I suspect that if they were playing under the England regime they would do almost as badly.
Also to be fair Cook performed really poorly in the one chance he was given. Although if the Aussies had called him up as a replacement he would do much better. There are no convicts in your line by any chance Nat?
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England don't pick bowlers out of the championship. They want tall, quick, bowlers. The Aussies are using Doggett Neser and Boland and are almost two ahead. Would any of them be picked by England?
No...and that is the point.
To be fair those you have named are not great bowlers compared to McGrath and the currently injured bowlers. But they like the batsmen simply bowl to a coherent plan and are prepared to adjust for the conditions.
I suspect that if they were playing under the England regime they would do almost as badly.
Also to be fair Cook performed really poorly in the one chance he was given. Although if the Aussies had called him up as a replacement he would do much better. There are no convicts in your line by any chance Nat?
Funnily enough there are...but not cricketers.
If there was any justice/sense my boy (and me) would be in Oz right now giving it large to those convicts. Instead we have a bunch of pie chuckers that have no bottle.
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"If I was an England supporter and had paid the money to come here, I'd be asking the ECB for a refund," Ian Botham said on Sunday. "Because this team, for me, is not prepared."
For once, I agree with Botham.
Heads MUST roll after this fiasco.
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"If I was an England supporter and had paid the money to come here, I'd be asking the ECB for a refund," Ian Botham said on Sunday. "Because this team, for me, is not prepared."
For once, I agree with Botham.
Heads MUST roll after this fiasco.
Agreed but IB's idea of preparation is to punch Ian Chappell. Which I agree with btw.
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Baz has a contract until after the 2027 World Cup. It would cost the ECB too much to get rid of him. I think Rob Key will be the one to go.
Apparently they don't have a dedicated fielding coach, or a wicket keeping one (that's Baz) and only recruited David Saker at the last minute. Their fabled preparation seems to have been anything but. Add that to the lack of warm up games and someone has to take the fall for this shambles.
And I think we are all entitled to ask what the batting coach, Marcus Trescothick, has done ro justify his wages.
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Looking at the last two tests it seems Bazball is up, running and perfected by the Aussies.
Exactly bazball but with brains.
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"If I was an England supporter and had paid the money to come here, I'd be asking the ECB for a refund," Ian Botham said on Sunday. "Because this team, for me, is not prepared."
Says the man whose idea of pre-game preparation was to bully players into having a booze-up.
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Looking at the last two tests it seems Bazball is up, running and perfected by the Aussies.
Exactly bazball but with brains.
Not sure it really has been Bazball. Englands one dimensional short pitched bowling has given them so many scoring opportunities. Head is very aggressive, the rest really have often just feasted on short and often wide bowling. Englands batters would have fancied their chances of smashing this England attack around aswell, bowling like this.
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Looking at the last two tests it seems Bazball is up, running and perfected by the Aussies.
Exactly bazball but with brains.
Not sure it really has been Bazball. Englands one dimensional short pitched bowling has given them so many scoring opportunities. Head is very aggressive, the rest really have often just feasted on short and often wide bowling. Englands batters would have fancied their chances of smashing this England attack around aswell, bowling like this.
Yep sh** bowling by sh** bowlers.
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Looking at the last two tests it seems Bazball is up, running and perfected by the Aussies.
Exactly bazball but with brains.
Not sure it really has been Bazball. Englands one dimensional short pitched bowling has given them so many scoring opportunities. Head is very aggressive, the rest really have often just feasted on short and often wide bowling. Englands batters would have fancied their chances of smashing this England attack around aswell, bowling like this.
No I think it can be described as bazball approach given that the Aussie batsmen have scored very quickly at times. But this is not new. decades ago Bobby Simpson would get the Waughs et al to rotate the strike and keep the scoring rate up.
The original ethos of Ben and Baz seemed to be similarly positive in decision making and tactics but this has degenerated into a paranoid attempt to prove a point by adhering to the funky even when orthodox would be a better choice.
The latter point mirrors that of the later Botham reign where the latter would position himself on the boundary and pick fights with supporters.
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Looking at the last two tests it seems Bazball is up, running and perfected by the Aussies.
Exactly bazball but with brains.
Not sure it really has been Bazball. Englands one dimensional short pitched bowling has given them so many scoring
opportunities. Head is very aggressive, the rest really have often just feasted on short and often wide bowling. Englands batters would have fancied their chances of smashing this England attack around aswell, bowling like this.
In my opinion Baz ball should be about positivity as against aggression. I see nothing wrong with looking to score off every ball but only if that is possible. Defence should be the result of not being able to score of a particular ball. This does not mean that the batter should look to smash every ball to the boundry but to get ones or twos where they are offered.
No I think it can be described as bazball approach given that the Aussie batsmen have scored very quickly at times. But this is not new. decades ago Bobby Simpson would get the Waughs et al to rotate the strike and keep the scoring rate up.
The original ethos of Ben and Baz seemed to be similarly positive in decision making and tactics but this has degenerated into a paranoid attempt to prove a point by adhering to the funky even when orthodox would be a better choice.
The latter point mirrors that of the later Botham reign where the latter would position himself on the boundary and pick fights with supporters.
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Looking at the last two tests it seems Bazball is up, running and perfected by the Aussies.
Exactly bazball but with brains.
Not sure it really has been Bazball. Englands one dimensional short pitched bowling has given them so many scoring
opportunities. Head is very aggressive, the rest really have often just feasted on short and often wide bowling. Englands batters would have fancied their chances of smashing this England attack around aswell, bowling like this.
In my opinion Baz ball should be about positivity as against aggression. I see nothing wrong with looking to score off every ball but only if that is possible. Defence should be the result of not being able to score of a particular ball. This does not mean that the batter should look to smash every ball to the boundry but to get ones or twos where they are offered.
Yes I think we all agree on this. Question is why the ECB have seemingly allowed Groupthink to take over?
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In the two games, the commentators were, again and again, saying that England were bowling the same ball in the same place. With the same result.
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So we bring in Matthew Fisher to replace Mark Wood. Is he the best we have available?
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So we bring in Matthew Fisher to replace Mark Wood. Is he the best we have available?
Steady up and downer, no extreme pace and not has quick those already in the squad .
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Fisher has come back well from his latest injury and bowled well for Surrey last season. He's a good choice. Of the Lions players: Eddie Jack, Josh Hull, Mitchell Stanley, Tom Lawes and Sonny Baker, I don't think any of them are ready to be thrown into an Ashes series. Hull is probably closest (and of course was picked for a test last year when he definitely wasn't ready), but he tends to be very expensive.
Saqib Mahmood should get another go, but he hasn't played First Class cricket since May and has had a lot of injury problems. He does have a central contract though and I hope he doesn't just play white ball.
A pity Sam Cook isn't off playing Grade cricket somewhere.
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Fisher has come back well from his latest injury and bowled well for Surrey last season. He's a good choice. Of the Lions players: Eddie Jack, Josh Hull, Mitchell Stanley, Tom Lawes and Sonny Baker, I don't think any of them are ready to be thrown into an Ashes series. Hull is probably closest (and of course was picked for a test last year when he definitely wasn't ready), but he tends to be very expensive.
Saqib Mahmood should get another go, but he hasn't played First Class cricket since May and has had a lot of injury problems. He does have a central contract though and I hope he doesn't just play white ball.
A pity Sam Cook isn't off playing Grade cricket somewhere.
Of course the elephant in the room is Ollie Robinson (Sussex) who is playing grade cricket.
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Of course the elephant in the room is Ollie Robinson (Sussex) who is playing grade cricket.
He's an outstanding bowler, as long as he doesn't go missing after his first spell. Don't be surprised to see him for the 5th test.
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Of course the elephant in the room is Ollie Robinson (Sussex) who is playing grade cricket.
He's an outstanding bowler, as long as he doesn't go missing after his first spell. Don't be surprised to see him for the 5th test.
Sadly now passed his sell by date.
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Of course the elephant in the room is Ollie Robinson (Sussex) who is playing grade cricket.
He's an outstanding bowler, as long as he doesn't go missing after his first spell. Don't be surprised to see him for the 5th test.
I'd be very surprised. He really p*ssed off the selectors/captain/coaches with his fitness level last tour.
Having said that, I'd have picked him ahead of Jamie Overton for the final Test last summer. He's a fine bowler when fit enough, and a decent number 8 batsman.
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Of course the elephant in the room is Ollie Robinson (Sussex) who is playing grade cricket.
He's an outstanding bowler, as long as he doesn't go missing after his first spell. Don't be surprised to see him for the 5th test.
Sadly now passed his sell by date.
To quote David Coleman he p*ssed a fatness test last time he was called up by England. It may be that he has unfairly acquired a reputation. It may be an appropriately bad reputation. Who knows?
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Baz is telling us to expect an unchanged top 7 for the 3rd Test.
Great news for the Aussies!
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Baz is telling us to expect an unchanged top 7 for the 3rd Test.
Great news for the Aussies!
Got little choice. 'Bazball' means all in...no retreat. If you are going to lose then go down in flames. I fully expect a 5-0 series trouncing followed by mass sackings.
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No retreat. Is Stalin or Emperor Hirohito, now responsible for the tactics.
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What other options are there on the batting side?
Bring in the only other member of the squad who is a batsman - Jacob Bethell, who however promising he may be, doesn't even have a first-class century.
The only other option I can think of would be to push up Will Jacks into his rightful role as a batsman who can bowl a bit, but I wouldn't want to overdo that (e.g. bat him at 3) just because he did quite well for a while at 8 in the last Test.
So in all honestly the current top 7 is probably the best they have out there, with the possible proviso that Jacks could have earned a place in the top 7, doing anything else is just shuffling the pack in hope rather than a concrete strategy.
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What other options are there on the batting side?
Bring in the only other member of the squad who is a batsman - Jacob Bethell, who however promising he may be, doesn't even have a first-class century.
The only other option I can think of would be to push up Will Jacks into his rightful role as a batsman who can bowl a bit, but I wouldn't want to overdo that (e.g. bat him at 3) just because he did quite well for a while at 8 in the last Test.
So in all honestly the current top 7 is probably the best they have out there, with the possible proviso that Jacks could have earned a place in the top 7, doing anything else is just shuffling the pack in hope rather than a concrete strategy.
Very good points. When he was skipper Tonker Taylor after a poor first innings performance used to say same order different batting. To start meddling with the batting now when even Crawley has made some runs would not improve matters. The Lions have not impressed and throwing someone into this series would be unfair on them.
This mess is caused by some bizarre thinking but at least there is tacit acceptance as reflected in the skipper reigning in his batting in the last test and comments by the likes of Brook.
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[ When he was skipper Tonker Taylor after a poor first innings performance used to say same order different batting.
I read he said "same batting order, better batting"
So would he have approved when the Aussies promoted Travis Head to open in the first Test?
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What other options are there on the batting side?
Bring in the only other member of the squad who is a batsman - Jacob Bethell, who however promising he may be, doesn't even have a first-class century.
The only other option I can think of would be to push up Will Jacks into his rightful role as a batsman who can bowl a bit, but I wouldn't want to overdo that (e.g. bat him at 3) just because he did quite well for a while at 8 in the last Test.
So in all honestly the current top 7 is probably the best they have out there, with the possible proviso that Jacks could have earned a place in the top 7, doing anything else is just shuffling the pack in hope rather than a concrete strategy.
I can see where you are coming from but TBC Pope looks a hopeless number 3 and Jamie Smith looks like a man whose confidence is completely shot, both with bat and gloves. I hope I'm wrong and they both score tons (and take their catches), but I fear the worst. I rather have Jacks or Bethell at 3 and give Pope the gloves and the number 6 spot.
If we don't change personnel, I'd rather see Stokes at 3, Pope at 6.
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What other options are there on the batting side?
Bring in the only other member of the squad who is a batsman - Jacob Bethell, who however promising he may be, doesn't even have a first-class century.
The only other option I can think of would be to push up Will Jacks into his rightful role as a batsman who can bowl a bit, but I wouldn't want to overdo that (e.g. bat him at 3) just because he did quite well for a while at 8 in the last Test.
So in all honestly the current top 7 is probably the best they have out there, with the possible proviso that Jacks could have earned a place in the top 7, doing anything else is just shuffling the pack in hope rather than a concrete strategy.
I can see where you are coming from but TBC Pope looks a hopeless number 3 and Jamie Smith looks like a man whose confidence is completely shot, both with bat and gloves. I hope I'm wrong and they both score tons (and take their catches), but I fear the worst. I rather have Jacks or Bethell at 3 and give Pope the gloves and the number 6 spot.
If we don't change personnel, I'd rather see Stokes at 3, Pope at 6.
Smith dropped one and did not go for another. Usual click bait journalism has got JS in its sights. Now people are calling for a recall for Bairstow whose mental and technical weaknesses caused problems in the last Ashes series.
The knee jerk reaction mentioned above makes no sense at all just changes for the sake of them. Never worked in the 1980s and 1990s. Keep the same side unless there are injuries.
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What other options are there on the batting side?
Bring in the only other member of the squad who is a batsman - Jacob Bethell, who however promising he may be, doesn't even have a first-class century.
The only other option I can think of would be to push up Will Jacks into his rightful role as a batsman who can bowl a bit, but I wouldn't want to overdo that (e.g. bat him at 3) just because he did quite well for a while at 8 in the last Test.
So in all honestly the current top 7 is probably the best they have out there, with the possible proviso that Jacks could have earned a place in the top 7, doing anything else is just shuffling the pack in hope rather than a concrete strategy.
I can see where you are coming from but TBC Pope looks a hopeless number 3 and Jamie Smith looks like a man whose confidence is completely shot, both with bat and gloves. I hope I'm wrong and they both score tons (and take their catches), but I fear the worst. I rather have Jacks or Bethell at 3 and give Pope the gloves and the number 6 spot.
If we don't change personnel, I'd rather see Stokes at 3, Pope at 6.
Smith dropped one and did not go for another. Usual click bait journalism has got JS in its sights. Now people are calling for a recall for Bairstow whose mental and technical weaknesses caused problems in the last Ashes series.
The knee jerk reaction mentioned above makes no sense at all just changes for the sake of them. Never worked in the 1980s and 1990s. Keep the same side unless there are injuries.
Its not hard to shoot Smith down when he isn't the number one wicket keeper at Surrey and the number one choice of the County.
Foakes, should be there as he is a better batsman and keeper.
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What other options are there on the batting side?
Bring in the only other member of the squad who is a batsman - Jacob Bethell, who however promising he may be, doesn't even have a first-class century.
The only other option I can think of would be to push up Will Jacks into his rightful role as a batsman who can bowl a bit, but I wouldn't want to overdo that (e.g. bat him at 3) just because he did quite well for a while at 8 in the last Test.
So in all honestly the current top 7 is probably the best they have out there, with the possible proviso that Jacks could have earned a place in the top 7, doing anything else is just shuffling the pack in hope rather than a concrete strategy.
I can see where you are coming from but TBC Pope looks a hopeless number 3 and Jamie Smith looks like a man whose confidence is completely shot, both with bat and gloves. I hope I'm wrong and they both score tons (and take their catches), but I fear the worst. I rather have Jacks or Bethell at 3 and give Pope the gloves and the number 6 spot.
If we don't change personnel, I'd rather see Stokes at 3, Pope at 6.
Smith dropped one and did not go for another. Usual click bait journalism has got JS in its sights. Now people are calling for a recall for Bairstow whose mental and technical weaknesses caused problems in the last Ashes series.
The knee jerk reaction mentioned above makes no sense at all just changes for the sake of them. Never worked in the 1980s and 1990s. Keep the same side unless there are injuries.
Its not hard to shoot Smith down when he isn't the number one wicket keeper at Surrey and the number one choice of the County.
Foakes, should be there as he is a better batsman and keeper.
Smith is in a different league to Foakes as a batsman.
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The knee jerk reaction mentioned above makes no sense at all just changes for the sake of them. Never worked in the 1980s and 1990s. Keep the same side unless there are injuries.
Yup. After all, the England management has been hammered for perceived lack of preparation, but they needed to know their batting line-up long in advance of going and the current one was cemented back in September, maybe even earlier.
So saying "Whoops it was all wrong let's try someone else" is hitting the panic button.
That said, I'm not adverse to changes, of course they always happen sooner or later.
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The knee jerk reaction mentioned above makes no sense at all just changes for the sake of them. Never worked in the 1980s and 1990s. Keep the same side unless there are injuries.
Yup. After all, the England management has been hammered for perceived lack of preparation, but they needed to know their batting line-up long in advance of going and the current one was cemented back in September, maybe even earlier.
So saying "Whoops it was all wrong let's try someone else" is hitting the panic button.
That said, I'm not adverse to changes, of course they always happen sooner or later.
I don't think there has been too many criticising the selection of the top 7 batsmen. The mindset of them, yes.
The bowling selections have been by far the bigger problem. They've been made to look idiots. Key and McCullum insisting to win in Australia you need a battery of 90mph bowlers and then being bowled out by Boland, Neser and Doggett, who are certainly not that.
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What other options are there on the batting side?
Bring in the only other member of the squad who is a batsman - Jacob Bethell, who however promising he may be, doesn't even have a first-class century.
The only other option I can think of would be to push up Will Jacks into his rightful role as a batsman who can bowl a bit, but I wouldn't want to overdo that (e.g. bat him at 3) just because he did quite well for a while at 8 in the last Test.
So in all honestly the current top 7 is probably the best they have out there, with the possible proviso that Jacks could have earned a place in the top 7, doing anything else is just shuffling the pack in hope rather than a concrete strategy.
I can see where you are coming from but TBC Pope looks a hopeless number 3 and Jamie Smith looks like a man whose confidence is completely shot, both with bat and gloves. I hope I'm wrong and they both score tons (and take their catches), but I fear the worst. I rather have Jacks or Bethell at 3 and give Pope the gloves and the number 6 spot.
If we don't change personnel, I'd rather see Stokes at 3, Pope at 6.
Smith dropped one and did not go for another. Usual click bait journalism has got JS in its sights. Now people are calling for a recall for Bairstow whose mental and technical weaknesses caused problems in the last Ashes series.
The knee jerk reaction mentioned above makes no sense at all just changes for the sake of them. Never worked in the 1980s and 1990s. Keep the same side unless there are injuries.
Its not hard to shoot Smith down when he isn't the number one wicket keeper at Surrey and the number one choice of the County.
Foakes, should be there as he is a better batsman and keeper.
Smith is in a different league to Foakes as a batsman.
Only at home as a test batsman although that average is coming down, no comparison as a wicketkeeper and that is what his job is.
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What other options are there on the batting side?
Bring in the only other member of the squad who is a batsman - Jacob Bethell, who however promising he may be, doesn't even have a first-class century.
The only other option I can think of would be to push up Will Jacks into his rightful role as a batsman who can bowl a bit, but I wouldn't want to overdo that (e.g. bat him at 3) just because he did quite well for a while at 8 in the last Test.
So in all honestly the current top 7 is probably the best they have out there, with the possible proviso that Jacks could have earned a place in the top 7, doing anything else is just shuffling the pack in hope rather than a concrete strategy.
I can see where you are coming from but TBC Pope looks a hopeless number 3 and Jamie Smith looks like a man whose confidence is completely shot, both with bat and gloves. I hope I'm wrong and they both score tons (and take their catches), but I fear the worst. I rather have Jacks or Bethell at 3 and give Pope the gloves and the number 6 spot.
If we don't change personnel, I'd rather see Stokes at 3, Pope at 6.
Smith dropped one and did not go for another. Usual click bait journalism has got JS in its sights. Now people are calling for a recall for Bairstow whose mental and technical weaknesses caused problems in the last Ashes series.
The knee jerk reaction mentioned above makes no sense at all just changes for the sake of them. Never worked in the 1980s and 1990s. Keep the same side unless there are injuries.
Its not hard to shoot Smith down when he isn't the number one wicket keeper at Surrey and the number one choice of the County.
Foakes, should be there as he is a better batsman and keeper.
Smith is in a different league to Foakes as a batsman.
Only at home as a test batsman although that average is coming down, no comparison as a wicketkeeper and that is what his job is.
Foakes is clearly the better keeper but he was hardly faultless when he played for England at that. He also wasn't up to batting at 7 in this team. Rightly or wrongly the way England bat you need a keeper at 7 who can score at a certain tempo batting with the tail. That's not his game at all. Smiths job is keeping and scoring runs. If the runs dry up he'll be left out but it wont be Foakes who gets picked.
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"...If the runs dry up he'll be left out but it wont be Foakes who gets picked."
He will 'cos it won't be Stokes/McCullum doing the picking. The adults will be in charge again.
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"...If the runs dry up he'll be left out but it wont be Foakes who gets picked."
He will 'cos it won't be Stokes/McCullum doing the picking. The adults will be in charge again.
He averages under 30 in Test cricket from 25 Tests. His batting at Test level hasn't been good enough. Bairstow and Buttler were getting picked ahead of Foakes under other coaches. Prior and Jones were picked rather than Foster or Read before that. It's not just Stokes/McCullum that don't pick the best keeper. Foakes will be 33 when England play their next test after Australia. Either of Rew, Cox, Pope will be far more likely to get a chance than him again.
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"...If the runs dry up he'll be left out but it wont be Foakes who gets picked."
He will 'cos it won't be Stokes/McCullum doing the picking. The adults will be in charge again.
He averages under 30 in Test cricket from 25 Tests. His batting at Test level hasn't been good enough. Bairstow and Buttler were getting picked ahead of Foakes under other coaches. Prior and Jones were picked rather than Foster or Read before that. It's not just Stokes/McCullum that don't pick the best keeper. Foakes will be 33 when England play their next test after Australia. Either of Rew, Cox, Pope will be far more likely to get a chance than him again.
I agree with JasonP on this. Foakes is not banging down any doors to get in this side. I suspect he has been found out with the bat. Cox really should be licking his lips. Read was never that good and I suspect JF upset a few people at Team England.
Before anyone gets upset just look at how Essex improved dramatically once he was eased out of Chelmsford.
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Last chance salon just after lunch at 100-4 to firmly take control not taken . Aussies brilliant at keeping the scoreboard ticking over . Not enough support for Archer, especially Carse bowling crazy line and lengths .
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He averages under 30 in Test cricket from 25 Tests. His batting at Test level hasn't been good enough. Bairstow and Buttler were getting picked ahead of Foakes under other coaches. Prior and Jones were picked rather than Foster or Read before that. It's not just Stokes/McCullum that don't pick the best keeper. Foakes will be 33 when England play their next test after Australia. Either of Rew, Cox, Pope will be far more likely to get a chance than him again.
It goes back a lot further - any Yorkie over 70 will tell you that Jimmy Binks was the best keeper in the country for years but only played 2 tests due to his mediocre batting; and no-one thought Rodney Marsh was the best keeper in Aus in the early 70s - he was widely known as "iron gloves"- but he certainly could bat (and sledge!)
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Honours even after the first day. And had Carey not been reprieved by a snicko operator error, then it would have been England's day. Now they just have to clean up the final 2 wickets and bat and bat and bat. It'll be in the high 30s tomorrow, England have a small chance to redeem themselves by keeping the Aussies bowlers out there in the heat.
So, all out for 150 and the Aussies batting again by tea then?
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Honours even after the first day. And had Carey not been reprieved by a snicko operator error, then it would have been England's day. Now they just have to clean up the final 2 wickets and bat and bat and bat. It'll be in the high 30s tomorrow, England have a small chance to redeem themselves by keeping the Aussies bowlers out there in the heat.
So, all out for 150 and the Aussies batting again by tea then?
And the Ashes done and dusted before the Christmas Sales start.
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Many of those England cricket tourists, the Barmy Army and their like, will surely be re-thinking whether to keep shelling out huge sums of money to endure the misery of watching England. There will likely be considerable loss of income going forward, maybe even in the last two rests, following this pointless encounter. Have any other nations, even the likes of Bangladesh, crumbled more inauspiciously than this pathetic England team?
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I'm beginning to think that Joffra would make a better Test number three than Ollie Pope
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I'm beginning to think that Joffra would make a better Test number three than Ollie Pope
Yes, it seems so. If Starc were English he could become a top order batsman!
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I'm beginning to think that Joffra would make a better Test number three than Ollie Pope
When Archer started out he was a genuine all-rounder - in 2017 scored 638 f/c runs for Sussex with five 50s at an average of 45.
Unfortunately - and this is something that irritates me - England quicks these days get so little time batting for their counties that their batting goes downhill simply due to lack of opportunity. Atkinson already seems to be heading down the same road.
Not great when modern cricket coaches supposedly preach that players should aim to excel in all disciplines.
We really should be having nos 8, 9 who are a serious thorn in opposition's sides.
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How do Key and McCullum spend 3 years planning for this series and end up with Brydon Carse opening the bowling? He's so ordinary it's untrue. The comparison between him and the Australian bowlers is ridiculous.
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With their Mentality, people will still shell out large sums to attend. No matter, how bad the performance.
To, continue to be involved with anything that you know is very poor. Says a lot about your judgement.
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How do Key and McCullum spend 3 years planning for this series and end up with Brydon Carse opening the bowling? He's so ordinary it's untrue. The comparison between him and the Australian bowlers is ridiculous.
Because they're snake oil salesmen. Many people bought it.
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I'm beginning to think that Joffra would make a better Test number three than Ollie Pope
When Archer started out he was a genuine all-rounder - in 2017 scored 638 f/c runs for Sussex with five 50s at an average of 45.
Unfortunately - and this is something that irritates me - England quicks these days get so little time batting for their counties that their batting goes downhill simply due to lack of opportunity. Atkinson already seems to be heading down the same road.
Not great when modern cricket coaches supposedly preach that players should aim to excel in all disciplines.
We really should be having nos 8, 9 who are a serious thorn in opposition's sides.
Sadly true, NAM. And while I accept the need for centrally contracted players, especially bowlers, to be rested sometimes, I don't accept that resting them between Tests should be the default, as it appears to be now.
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"...If the runs dry up he'll be left out but it wont be Foakes who gets picked."
He will 'cos it won't be Stokes/McCullum doing the picking. The adults will be in charge again.
So - back to the "good old days" days of Root & Spoons?
Time to move on, but let's not throw out the baby with the dirty bathwater. Pre-Baz we'd won one Test in 17 and were playing the most boring cricket imaginable.
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"...If the runs dry up he'll be left out but it wont be Foakes who gets picked."
He will 'cos it won't be Stokes/McCullum doing the picking. The adults will be in charge again.
So - back to the "good old days" days of Root & Spoons?
Time to move on, but let's not throw out the baby with the dirty bathwater. Pre-Baz we'd won one Test in 17 and were playing the most boring cricket imaginable.
There's a middle way. Root is/was a poor captain. If Stokes is to continue to play for England then you'll need a strong captain. For me, I'd tell Stokes it's all over, go play franchise cricket. A total reset is needed.
Out of the current team/squad only Root, Brook, Archer are good enough.
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There's a middle way. Root is/was a poor captain. If Stokes is to continue to play for England then you'll need a strong captain. For me, I'd tell Stokes it's all over, go play franchise cricket. A total reset is needed.
What do I know but I just can't see Stokes wanting to soldier on through six Tests against New Zealand and Pakistan next summer.
He will be 35 then and as we all know he has looked physically spent for some time. It constantly looks as if he is running on fumes.
Not to mention the mental toll which he may not show but is very much there for all England captains, however resilient.
A new captain will be needed, probably very soon and definitely soonish. Will it be Bazzer Brook or will they go for a more cerebral option such as County Championship-winning captain Haseeb Hameed, who could come straight in for Crawley, or bat at 3?
Also Asa Tribe for Test debut next summer?
What will happen?
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"A new captain will be needed, probably very soon and definitely soonish. Will it be Bazzer Brook or will they go for a more cerebral option such as County Championship-winning captain Haseeb Hameed, who could come straight in for Crawley, or bat at 3?"
McCullum and Key, especially the latter, despise the CC and probably haven't even noticed that Notts won it, so while they are in place I don't think there's any chance of that happening.
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There's a middle way. Root is/was a poor captain. If Stokes is to continue to play for England then you'll need a strong captain. For me, I'd tell Stokes it's all over, go play franchise cricket. A total reset is needed.
What do I know but I just can't see Stokes wanting to soldier on through six Tests against New Zealand and Pakistan next summer.
He will be 35 then and as we all know he has looked physically spent for some time. It constantly looks as if he is running on fumes.
Not to mention the mental toll which he may not show but is very much there for all England captains, however resilient.
A new captain will be needed, probably very soon and definitely soonish. Will it be Bazzer Brook or will they go for a more cerebral option such as County Championship-winning captain Haseeb Hameed, who could come straight in for Crawley, or bat at 3?
Also Asa Tribe for Test debut next summer?
What will happen?
Obviously the disasterous Ashes may have altered his plans but it was only 6 weeks ago he extended his England contract until the end of 2027.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/crl2ex83j4eo
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Very astute of Stokes' agent to negotiate an extension before the tour. This sort of outcome was more than likely. At the ground in September my Suffolk pal was of the opinion that you would get found out with a makeshift keeper and no proper spinner. At the time England had one bowler in the test top 20 (Atkinson) and the Aussies had four. Of course an extension increases any mutual consent payment.
Once the white ball team come badly unstuck in the world T20 I can see wholesale changes taking place.
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How do Key and McCullum spend 3 years planning for this series and end up with Brydon Carse opening the bowling? He's so ordinary it's untrue. The comparison between him and the Australian bowlers is ridiculous
Yep. England have been so poor that it's maybe unfair to zero in on one player, but the sight of Carse lumbering in and bowling short wide pies over after over has been particularly grim viewing. I think it'll end up being my enduring memory of this series.
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Same again repeat for England, keep making the same mistakes, while the Aussies do the basics brilliantly.
Only positive for England would be to prevent a whitewash and deny a Aussies victory.
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Yep. England have been so poor that it's maybe unfair to zero in on one player, but the sight of Carse lumbering in and bowling short wide pies over after over has been particularly grim viewing. I think it'll end up being my enduring memory of this series.
The disappointing thing was that he was shaping up well in tests back in England & like every one else is clearly doing his best, he doesn?t want to faill, but that is what is happening with so many of them & the coaches are incapable of addressing it. They are now probably shell shocked & feel nothing is going their way but to be this bad is astonishing.
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Same again repeat for England, keep making the same mistakes, while the Aussies do the basics brilliantly.
Only positive for England would be to prevent a whitewash and deny a Aussies victory.
If England were batting against an attack of Carse, Tongue, Jacks and Root then they?d be scoring plenty of runs too. See of Archer and there?s pretty much nothing there. I genuinely can?t understand how we?ve got to this stage of having such a poor attack.
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Same again repeat for England, keep making the same mistakes, while the Aussies do the basics brilliantly.
Only positive for England would be to prevent a whitewash and deny a Aussies victory.
If England were batting against an attack of Carse, Tongue, Jacks and Root then they?d be scoring plenty of runs too. See of Archer and there?s pretty much nothing there. I genuinely can?t understand how we?ve got to this stage of having such a poor attack.
you get there by not watching county cricket and dissing anyone who performs well in it.
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The disappointing thing was that he was shaping up well in tests back in England & like every one else is clearly doing his best, he doesn?t want to faill, but that is what is happening with so many of them & the coaches are incapable of addressing it. They are now probably shell shocked & feel nothing is going their way but to be this bad is astonishing.
Agreed. Carse did look the part, more or less, during the English summer - made some useful contributions with the bat too - and had seemingly earned the right to be part of England's first choice attack. And yes he's giving it plenty, it takes tremendous physical effort to keep banging it in short in that heat. But the end result is just woeful.
Then we have the ridiculous fantasy that Will Jacks can act as a frontline international spinner. This is the Bazball "reach for the skies, believe and it will happen" stuff taken to the level of delusion. I feel sorry for Jacks, he showed a lot of guts batting in the second innings at Brisbane, but pitting his part-time bowling against the likes of Head and Carey was only ever going to have one outcome.
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I feel sorry for anyone headed out to Aus for the iconic last two test at the MCG and SCG. Both great grounds but with nothing to play for it must be a downer.
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Obviously the disastrous Ashes may have altered his plans but it was only 6 weeks ago he extended his England contract until the end of 2027.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/crl2ex83j4eo
One can hope. No doubt he wants to play on.
But once again today we have seen that his body didn't play ball as he couldn't bowl after his efforts with the bat.
These things are only going to go in one direction and how long is it before something either again rules him out for months or is incurable/chronic?
I would love to be proved wrong but is he really going to be leading England out in 2027?
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Obviously the disastrous Ashes may have altered his plans but it was only 6 weeks ago he extended his England contract until the end of 2027.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/crl2ex83j4eo
One can hope. No doubt he wants to play on.
But once again today we have seen that his body didn't play ball as he couldn't bowl after his efforts with the bat.
These things are only going to go in one direction and how long is it before something either again rules him out for months or is incurable/chronic?
I would love to be proved wrong but is he really going to be leading England out in 2027?
He needs firm handling which he won?t get.
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Avoided a record ten day capitulation, in losing the Ashes, set up in 1921 by lasting out to the fifth day .
So only an eleven day disgrace set in 2002/3.
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Avoided a record ten day capitulation, in losing the Ashes, set up in 1921 by lasting out to the fifth day .
So only an eleven day disgrace set in 2002/3.
IIRC the winter tour of 1920 21 was led by a certain John William Henry Tyler Douglas of ECCC?
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I will have to check in my Official History of Essex CCC. To see if this was the time when J W H T Douglas, fell out with Essex. On another tour of South Africa. There was a player, making an appearance as a short notice replacement, similar to Tony Pigot. As he had nothing to lose, he gave advice to JWHT Douglas. To field, where he could see his rubbish bowling figures on the scoreboard.
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There must be a case for Stokes, who seems to be running on fumes, to skip Melbourne if defeat is confirmed over night. I'd also omit Brook and tell him to focus on the forthcoming white ball games. Bashir and Potts ought to play now.
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There must be a case for Stokes, who seems to be running on fumes, to skip Melbourne if defeat is confirmed over night. I'd also omit Brook and tell him to focus on the forthcoming white ball games. Bashir and Potts ought to play now.
no I'd insist on BS playing Melbourne and Sydney. He should own this mess.
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The, I told you so tour, is all but in its last rites.
So, how many games has the Bazball game let us win games batting last in fairytale finishes ?
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There must be a case for Stokes, who seems to be running on fumes, to skip Melbourne if defeat is confirmed over night. I'd also omit Brook and tell him to focus on the forthcoming white ball games. Bashir and Potts ought to play now.
no I'd insist on BS playing Melbourne and Sydney. He should own this mess.
Exactly. He caused this situation. He is culpable along with those two other muppets for this shambles.
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Many of those England cricket tourists, the Barmy Army and their like, will surely be re-thinking whether to keep shelling out huge sums of money to endure the misery of watching England. There will likely be considerable loss of income going forward, maybe even in the last two rests, following this pointless encounter. Have any other nations, even the likes of Bangladesh, crumbled more inauspiciously than this pathetic England team?
This is a controversial take but I honestly couldn't care less about the Barmy Army and England 'cricket tourists'. All they do is happy clap, never hold the team to account and hardly any of them from what I can see actually support their counties or give the faintest toss about county cricket. I'm guessing a lot of England fans out there are expats who live in Australia or football fans out on a bucket list piss up anyway.
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I tend to think that, with the group think. The Barmy Army, is some sort of cult.
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This is a controversial take but I honestly couldn't care less about the Barmy Army and England 'cricket tourists'. All they do is happy clap, never hold the team to account and hardly any of them from what I can see actually support their counties or give the faintest toss about county cricket. I'm guessing a lot of England fans out there are expats who live in Australia or football fans out on a bucket list piss up anyway.
Obviously it is their choice if they want to spend absolutely thousands on going to a cricket match. You run that risk of bad results (for you) in any sport.
As you say, how many of them care about domestic cricket? For some reason a number of them display football club flags, you don't, or very rarely, see a county cricket club flag. What has football got to do with the England cricket side?
quote author=vim link=topic=3178.msg69951#msg69951 date=1766399565]
I tend to think that, with the group think. The Barmy Army, is some sort of cult.
[/quote]
Certainly a huge amount of herd mentality. That bloody song - "Don't take me home" - Well you're not going to be taken home or having to go back to work if you're out there, are you?
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Frankly I can understand why they are seen rich people with time and money to follow a losing team.
On the other hand they do give good support to their team as well as giving credit to opponents where deserving. Ask Mitchell Johnson what he thinks when he has had both sides or Pat Cummins when his dying mother was saluted by Billy the trumpeter.
There is a case for saying that some county cricket fans are a bit cult like with their over exaggerated expectations and claims about a county game that has been over taken by other sports and other countries who have a much wider fan base.
I do not get the anti football narrative on here. Not so long ago it was possible to see the same person performing in both sports sometimes on the same day.
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Frankly I can understand why they are seen rich people with time and money to follow a losing team.
On the other hand they do give good support to their team as well as giving credit to opponents where deserving. Ask Mitchell Johnson what he thinks when he has had both sides or Pat Cummins when his dying mother was saluted by Billy the trumpeter.
There is a case for saying that some county cricket fans are a bit cult like with their over exaggerated expectations and claims about a county game that has been over taken by other sports and other countries who have a much wider fan base.
I do not get the anti football narrative on here. Not so long ago it was possible to see the same person performing in both sports sometimes on the same day.
There is no anti-football narrative. Take me for example, I'm an ESTC member and follow England home and away. We give the England football team great support at games abroad. The big difference though between us and the Barmy Army, is that we actually hold the team to account. If they've been crap, they'll get booed and if they aren't fit to wear the shirt, they'll get told. Not to mention that 95% of us actually care about the domestic game in our country, unlike England cricket fans.
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Frankly I can understand why they are seen rich people with time and money to follow a losing team.
On the other hand they do give good support to their team as well as giving credit to opponents where deserving. Ask Mitchell Johnson what he thinks when he has had both sides or Pat Cummins when his dying mother was saluted by Billy the trumpeter.
There is a case for saying that some county cricket fans are a bit cult like with their over exaggerated expectations and claims about a county game that has been over taken by other sports and other countries who have a much wider fan base.
I do not get the anti football narrative on here. Not so long ago it was possible to see the same person performing in both sports sometimes on the same day.
I am absolutely not anti-football, quite the opposite, but I wouldn't drape a football flag at a cricket match. Though it's not such a big deal, but I would prefer to see cricket club flags on display at the Ashes.
Yes, there is no doubt that some groups of domestic cricket fans and I dare say other groupings can become cult-like, you are right.
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I think the late Mr Clough got it right about cricket and football "cricket's a far better game".
As for England, maybe they should have stuck to golf rather than boozing.
Happy Christmas everyone.
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Some Xmas food for thought from Andrew Strauss:
"since 2000, England have spent 12 months as the No. 1 team in the world. In the same time, Australia has spent a grand total of 166 months as the World?s best test team.
If we are genuinely serious about changing this depressingly one sided story, then we need to look beyond sacking England coaches and captains and ask whether we are genuinely willing to make the changes necessary to break the trend."
Reply from Paul Nixon included this:
"the Hundred in August with little or no first team cricket was sacrosanct, and everything in the county schedule - and indeed the England test team schedule had to revolve around that. So arguably the best / warmest month of the year to play first team 4 day cricket on good and wearing pitches with fast outfields was blocked off. I note the current Ashes series in Australia has no problem overlapping with the Big Bash League. Denying yourself perhaps the best 4 weeks weather-wise of an at best 24 weeks season made no sense."
Lord Brockett has yet to reply to PN's point.
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Frankly I can understand why they are seen rich people with time and money to follow a losing team.
On the other hand they do give good support to their team as well as giving credit to opponents where deserving. Ask Mitchell Johnson what he thinks when he has had both sides or Pat Cummins when his dying mother was saluted by Billy the trumpeter.
There is a case for saying that some county cricket fans are a bit cult like with their over exaggerated expectations and claims about a county game that has been over taken by other sports and other countries who have a much wider fan base.
I do not get the anti football narrative on here. Not so long ago it was possible to see the same person performing in both sports sometimes on the same day.
There is no anti-football narrative. Take me for example, I'm an ESTC member and follow England home and away. We give the England football team great support at games abroad. The big difference though between us and the Barmy Army, is that we actually hold the team to account. If they've been crap, they'll get booed and if they aren't fit to wear the shirt, they'll get told. Not to mention that 95% of us actually care about the domestic game in our country, unlike England cricket fans.
They seem to want to enjoy their cricket but that is hardly a crime. Besides the Aussie fans certainly do hold the team to account.
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Was Andrew Strauss the one who said that The hundred was better for women as it was easier to understand?
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/dec/21/england-cricket-machine-collapses-like-castle-of-dust-in-11-days-ashes-australia-cricket
"Arrogant England?s cricket machine collapses like a castle of dust in 11 days.
So this is Christmas. And what have we done? The Ashes is over. With two Tests still to come .... "
Worth a read.
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In revisionist history. It is now thought that, Field Marshall Haig, learnt from the mistakes at the Battle of the Somme. And the situation was never repeated.
Is the England management, capable of learning. I think not.
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Pace bowler Jofra Archer has been ruled out of the remainder of the Ashes series in another huge blow to England on a wretched tour of Australia.
The 30-year-old, who returned to Test cricket after a four-year absence in July, has suffered a side strain.
We told you so tour just keeps giving.
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Pace bowler Jofra Archer has been ruled out of the remainder of the Ashes series in another huge blow to England on a wretched tour of Australia.
The 30-year-old, who returned to Test cricket after a four-year absence in July, has suffered a side strain.
We told you so tour just keeps giving.
Er....I told you so.
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Pace bowler Jofra Archer has been ruled out of the remainder of the Ashes series in another huge blow to England on a wretched tour of Australia.
The 30-year-old, who returned to Test cricket after a four-year absence in July, has suffered a side strain.
We told you so tour just keeps giving.
Playing him three tests in a row was always rather optimistic.
I'm disappointed that Potts hasn't been given a go.
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In revisionist history. It is now thought that, Field Marshall Haig, learnt from the mistakes at the Battle of the Somme. And the situation was never repeated.
Is the England management, capable of learning. I think not.
Your understanding of military history and tactics clearly informed by that scholar and gentlemen Allan Clarke. Haig was very popular with the public and had more people line the route of his coffin than Princess Diana. Plenty more WW1 generals could be given the sobriquet Donkeys.
Unlike the Thatcher funeral those lining the route for the Haig coffin we?re not there to make sure he was dead.
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Pace bowler Jofra Archer has been ruled out of the remainder of the Ashes series in another huge blow to England on a wretched tour of Australia.
The 30-year-old, who returned to Test cricket after a four-year absence in July, has suffered a side strain.
We told you so tour just keeps giving.
Er....I told you so.
Your prescience on this matter has surpassed every prediction made on here. Needs little Chef to be flown out immediately as Rob Key is running out of pies.
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Excellent first day, everyone got a bat !
Throw it down and take wickets test. Ten quick wickets on the second day and have this done and dusted with. Just need to reverse the batting order and see how we go .
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Today shows that the saying, do not comment on a 1st class game, until both sides have completed their first innings.
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Where is Paul Collingwood? Clearly he has the stamina to last two hours with multiple partners. Why not bring him out of retirement?
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But the fact still is Ashes 3 Bazball 1.
Credit where credit is due though, finally got over the line and can only play and perform on what you have been given. With another of the front line bowlers in Atkinson now injured, Tongue now nailed a bowling spot for the future after his MOTM effort. Can I be greedy and expect a London bus effect for the last test and get back to back wins. A win in two days is reward for those who travelled, and watched what was served up before.
It?s been too long, but not overdue given the recent performances, so it must not paper over the cracks with those who have been making bad decisions constantly.
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I was wrong. They should keep off the golf and get back on the lash.
Bethell looks a talent to me. He needs to play championship cricket, aa Sir Alastair suggested, to get a better handle on multi day cricket.
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I was wrong. They should keep off the golf and get back on the lash.
Bethell looks a talent to me. He needs to play championship cricket, aa Sir Alastair suggested, to get a better handle on multi day cricket.
They all do.
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Interesting that England put up a much better performance in the 3rd test and won the 4th. Almost as if a few practice games before it all started might have come in handy.
That was a good win, especially with Atkinson injured. Tongue deserved the man of the match award. Bethell impressed me, but it's crazy to think that his maiden first class hundred will probably come in a test match. There's the T20 World Cup coming up, then he'll be in the IPL, followed shortly after by the New Zealand tests, some more white ball stuff and the Pakistan series, leaving little time to play less pressured games for his county.
And had that pitch had been Chelmsford, Essex would probably have been docked about 100 points.
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Interesting that England put up a much better performance in the 3rd test and won the 4th. Almost as if a few practice games before it all started might have come in handy.
That was a good win, especially with Atkinson injured. Tongue deserved the man of the match award. Bethell impressed me, but it's crazy to think that his maiden first class hundred will probably come in a test match. There's the T20 World Cup coming up, then he'll be in the IPL, followed shortly after by the New Zealand tests, some more white ball stuff and the Pakistan series, leaving little time to play less pressured games for his county.
And had that pitch had been Chelmsford, Essex would probably have been docked about 100 points.
We've had a couple of even more farcical matches than that and not got docked points!
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/county-championship-division-one-2022-1297650/essex-vs-lancashire-1297783/full-scorecard
370 runs from 125 overs.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/county-championship-2021-1244186/essex-vs-northamptonshire-division-2-1271411/full-scorecard
96.3 overs. The shortest 4 day match on record. There were only 3 innings played but still.
This test had 852 balls. The two Essex matches 750 and 579. The first of them for 40 wkts and the other 30.
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That Northants match must have been the clinched when we decided to sign Rossington.
I actually feel sick that we won this test because the morons think that they won because they were true to their way of playing. This was a cunning plan by the Aussies to keep McMoron and the Ginger Muppet in their posts for the next 4 years.
We live in strange times.
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That Northants match must have been the clinched when we decided to sign Rossington.
I actually feel sick that we won this test because the morons think that they won because they were true to their way of playing. This was a cunning plan by the Aussies to keep McMoron and the Ginger Muppet in their posts for the next 4 years.
We live in strange times.
Agreed it was the worst thing that could happen.
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And had that pitch had been Chelmsford, Essex would probably have been docked about 100 points.
As far as I know, there's no equivalent of a points docking in Test cricket, but the Aussie bean counters will be hitting the roof over loss of revenue - not just refunds on 3rd day tickets, but also lost revenue at the bar. The profits made by a 90,000 crowd consisting of a high percentage of Aussie p*ssheads, and the Barmy Army, all guzzling lagers at inflated prices, must be massive.
Oh, and they might sell the odd pie and an occasional cup of tea too.
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On the news, there were a few England fans, who were unhappy hearing that. The clock, on the wall, says that we have only three days to kill.
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There was a report, on Ceefax, that the groundsman left 1cm of grass on the pitch. Is Grayson out there now, as a pitch consultant.
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If there was a day to show why the management needs to change the second day of the last test showed why. Back to type in batting and bowling, (the Smith dismissal in shot and situation was XXXX ).
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If there was a day to show why the management needs to change the second day of the last test showed why. Back to type in batting and bowling, (the Smith dismissal in shot and situation was XXXX ).
Quite. And it continues on day 3 with more dropped catches.
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Don?t do draws , bet they would welcome one now.
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There was a report, on Ceefax, that the groundsman left 1cm of grass on the pitch. Is Grayson out there now, as a pitch consultant.
Hopefully he will take over as CEO of Cricket Australia.
After all given the comments by the departing Khawaja he would be best placed to ensure high standards of conduct both on the field as well as in the dressing room.
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He need not worry about the restrictions in bringing a dog into Australia. As the sling, he has to throw a ball, does not require a dog to catch it.
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On the BBC, they were talking of taking a Test match to the final day. As, if it was winning the Championship.
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All but three sessions to go ( probably less if the wonder kid gets a first baller ).
Well I?ve had two visits to the dentist since the start of the series , much more pleasant . Who would have thought it could be has worse has the women?s tour last winter, but it has.
Thompson, Gould, Key and McCullum take a bow, all got the credentials to run a water company or Man Utd, all raise a glass to their incompetence .
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A terrific first test (and First Class) hundred from Jacob Bethell today. Great technique, playing sensibly, ducking rather than hooking or charging down the pitch when he got a bit bored. It'll never catch on. He will be some player across all formats.
A rare bright spot on what has been a horrible tour. Although no worse than the last few.
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Let us hope that Jacob Bethell retains a grounded approach in both his batting and his approach to fame as a whole. Remember that similarly gushing things were said about Harry Brook up until a few months ago.
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A terrific first test (and First Class) hundred from Jacob Bethell today. Great technique, playing sensibly, ducking rather than hooking or charging down the pitch when he got a bit bored. It'll never catch on. He will be some player across all formats.
A rare bright spot on what has been a horrible tour. Although no worse than the last few.
I think this has been the worst. In the last three Ashes, they were too good for us really. A strong, settled batting line up and a world class bowling team. In their own conditions an incredibly tough task.
This series they've had no Hazelwood, pretty much no Cummins and also Lyon has played a pretty limited role. Without these, their bowling, Starc apart, is really nothing special and the batting pretty average as well. England have generally bowled terribly but Australia have still given up plenty of chances that England have missed. As bad as they've been with bat and ball dropped catches have cost them over 550 runs this series which would have made the series a lot more competitive, which shows how pretty average the Aussies are in general really.
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Jacks' dismissal was almost as bad as Smith's in the first innings. Neither should be let anywhere near the Test team until they've learned to use their brains day in, day out.
Yet again, if we'd cut out a few brainless shots and held our catches, we could have won this Test.
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Jacks' dismissal was almost as bad as Smith's in the first innings. Neither should be let anywhere near the Test team until they've learned to use their brains day in, day out.
Yet again, if we'd cut out a few brainless shots and held our catches, we could have won this Test.
Jacks started out OK but I fear that either Stokes or Mccullum has messed with their minds.
The question is whether it is better to have Stokes in the side at all or whether a more sensible coaching staff would enable him to think more clearly so he would perform better. His performance with the bat suggests his brain has gone and his hobbling off mid over certainly Indicates his abductor has gone.
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Jacks' dismissal was almost as bad as Smith's in the first innings. Neither should be let anywhere near the Test team until they've learned to use their brains day in, day out.
Yet again, if we'd cut out a few brainless shots and held our catches, we could have won this Test.
Jacks started out OK but I fear that either Stokes or Mccullum has messed with their minds.
The question is whether it is better to have Stokes in the side at all or whether a more sensible coaching staff would enable him to think more clearly so he would perform better. His performance with the bat suggests his brain has gone and his hobbling off mid over certainly Indicates his abductor has gone.
Everyone is scared of Stokes. He won't/can't go back to the 'other ranks'. Needs a complete clear out.
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The question is whether it is better to have Stokes in the side at all or whether a more sensible coaching staff would enable him to think more clearly so he would perform better. His performance with the bat suggests his brain has gone and his hobbling off mid over certainly indicates his abductor has gone.
I see a lot of calls for Stokes to stay but as I have mentioned before his injury problems haven't gone away and he is 35 at the start of next summer's Tests.
I am amazed he lasted to the fifth Test but it must have taken a huge toll and predictably he eventually broke.
How much has he left in the can - months, weeks or nothing?
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Strange the way the incident with Brooks was kept quiet until now. I guess it was to avoid it overshadowing the start of The Ashes but whether it was better to draw a line under it ASAP I am not sure.
Now it just places greater importance upon a change of leadership because it now links with the Duckett incident and suggests that discipline as well as accountability have fallen away under this regime.
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I wonder if as was the case years ago. When David Acfield, the club chairman, was observed before play speaking to an Essex player about behaviour that was not acceptable. Whilst he was speaking, the player was observed having the attitude of not caring less about what was being said.
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The question is whether it is better to have Stokes in the side at all or whether a more sensible coaching staff would enable him to think more clearly so he would perform better. His performance with the bat suggests his brain has gone and his hobbling off mid over certainly indicates his abductor has gone.
I see a lot of calls for Stokes to stay but as I have mentioned before his injury problems haven't gone away and he is 35 at the start of next summer's Tests.
I am amazed he lasted to the fifth Test but it must have taken a huge toll and predictably he eventually broke.
How much has he left in the can - months, weeks or nothing?
NAM, I agree - but who are the alternatives to Stokes, both as a captain and as an all-rounder? The cupboard looks petty damn bare to me
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McCullum and Stokes are joined at the hip. If McCullum goes (as he should) then Stokes has to go too. If he wants to play on as an allrounder then fine but I suspect he wouldn't.
What exactly does McCullum do apart from trousering ?2m/year and losing cricket matches?
I'd make the 'coach' position redundant. Employ some 'assistants' (to watch county cricket for instance) to the captain and make it clear that the captain is responsible for selection etc. If they want some skills coaches (e.g. fielding but they shouldn't need to) then they can get some L2 coaches on a temporary basis.
Get the best captain amongst the counties. Someone like Tom Abell or the Sussex fella. They don't need to average 40+ to justify their place in the team.
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NAM, I agree - but who are the alternatives to Stokes, both as a captain and as an all-rounder? The cupboard looks petty damn bare to me
I think the cupboard will always be bare in that regard.
As captain it is now more so as we don't choose captains from county cricket any more. Personally I would be picking Haseeb Hameed - a Championship-winning captain - for this summer's Tests with a view to the captaincy. Incidentally, I think the way he has been treated, compared with Crawley, who has been given chance upon chance, is a disgrace.
However, just as suggested above with Tom Abell, I just can't see it happening.
On the all-rounder front I just don't know. But Stokes' time is very limited at best. I can't see him lasting beyond this summer, if he even makes that. His match-winning performances are also becoming less and less, like Botham and Flintoff before, he is raging against the dying of the light.
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My lad was pointing out it will cost a fortune to sack McCullam as he tecently signed a new contract when he took over the white ball team.
I made a rather snide aside to him the other morning that Upminster's finest, Big Beau, and the Aussies generally had found out the three Surrey public schoolboys. Maybe the mouthier Lawrence might have done better?
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I wonder if as was the case years ago. When David Acfield, the club chairman, was observed before play speaking to an Essex player about behaviour that was not acceptable. Whilst he was speaking, the player was observed having the attitude of not caring less about what was being said.
DA taught my brother in law at secondary school. Apparently the kids there had the same reaction.
Seemingly the current generation even more are either too arrogant to listen or having anxiety issues.
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My lad was pointing out it will cost a fortune to sack McCullam as he tecently signed a new contract when he took over the white ball team.
I made a rather snide aside to him the other morning that Upminster's finest, Big Beau, and the Aussies generally had found out the three Surrey public schoolboys. Maybe the mouthier Lawrence might have done better?
No. He has been found out too. Decent for us in the past but is taking the easy money in franchises but clearly Surrey did not rate him as they stuck him at 7 and used his bowling instead. Cox on the other hand seems to have both a better technique and more combative attitude on the pitch as opposed to in bars or nightclubs. Neither should play until they?ve genuinely overhauled the culture in the England set up. I hate it when people use the term toxic but there is clearly something really wrong.
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On the all-rounder front I just don't know. But Stokes' time is very limited at best. I can't see him lasting beyond this summer, if he even makes that. His match-winning performances are also becoming less and less, like Botham and Flintoff before, he is raging against the dying of the light.
I think Stokes will play until the end of the 2027 home Ashes. The tail end of his career is different to both Botham and Flintoff in the way he prepares and trains, otherwise he'd be retired by now. His batting suffered this series, but I'd hate to think he's played his last match winning innings. His bowling has been the best it's been for years, although he needs to use himself more sparingly and not do the donkey work.
As for seam bowling allrounders, who is there in county cricket? George Hill is talented but his batting fell away last season and he needs a bit more pace. There's a great opportunity there if he wants to work for it. I think the one to watch is Matthew Revis (and not just because of his hundred in that horrible defeat at York). He needs to work on his bowling, but there's definitely potential there. Can either of them make that step up to be full allrounders, or will it be like the search for Botham replacements: Pringle, Lewis, Capel et al?
Maybe Rehan Ahmed will take on that role as a spinning allrounder? Let's see how he does in Division One for Leics.
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My lad was pointing out it will cost a fortune to sack McCullam as he tecently signed a new contract when he took over the white ball team.
I read it would cost c?1million - but the ECCB have reserves of ?57m.
But no organisation wants to spaff away reserves unnecessarily. My hope is that Richard Gould will demand big change, including a full-time fielding coach and someone like Colly on the team who's not afraid to challenge Key & McCallum, then Baz will either accept change or walk. (I'm not a lawyer, so whether this would constitute "constructive dismissal" or not, I couldn't say; I hope not).
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McCallum has incriminated himself enough, to remove the constructive claim entirely.
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My lad was pointing out it will cost a fortune to sack McCullam as he tecently signed a new contract when he took over the white ball team.
I read it would cost c?1million - but the ECCB have reserves of ?57m.
But no organisation wants to spaff away reserves unnecessarily. My hope is that Richard Gould will demand big change, including a full-time fielding coach and someone like Colly on the team who's not afraid to challenge Key & McCallum, then Baz will either accept change or walk. (I'm not a lawyer, so whether this would constitute "constructive dismissal" or not, I couldn't say; I hope not).
This Colly?
https://www.firstpost.com/firstcricket/paul-collingwood-missing-sex-scandal-tax-fine-13943208.html
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My lad was pointing out it will cost a fortune to sack McCullam as he tecently signed a new contract when he took over the white ball team.
I made a rather snide aside to him the other morning that Upminster's finest, Big Beau, and the Aussies generally had found out the three Surrey public schoolboys. Maybe the mouthier Lawrence might have done better?
Bad timing for a couple of them as well. There used to be sports shop just outside the Essex County Ground called Pope and Smith, founded by two ex Essex cricketers. Closed recently, would have have perfect for them if the cricket carries on going badly.
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My lad was pointing out it will cost a fortune to sack McCullam as he tecently signed a new contract when he took over the white ball team.
I made a rather snide aside to him the other morning that Upminster's finest, Big Beau, and the Aussies generally had found out the three Surrey public schoolboys. Maybe the mouthier Lawrence might have done better?
Bad timing for a couple of them as well. There used to be sports shop just outside the Essex County Ground called Pope and Smith, founded by two ex Essex cricketers. Closed recently, would have have perfect for them if the cricket carries on going badly.
Sad to hear that Pope and Smith has closed. I see it was around 50 years but I thought it predates that as Dudley Pope died in a car accident before the war and TPD Smith in the mid 1960s?
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My lad was pointing out it will cost a fortune to sack McCullam as he tecently signed a new contract when he took over the white ball team.
I read it would cost c?1million - but the ECCB have reserves of ?57m.
But no organisation wants to spaff away reserves unnecessarily. My hope is that Richard Gould will demand big change, including a full-time fielding coach and someone like Colly on the team who's not afraid to challenge Key & McCallum, then Baz will either accept change or walk. (I'm not a lawyer, so whether this would constitute "constructive dismissal" or not, I couldn't say; I hope not).
This Colly?
https://www.firstpost.com/firstcricket/paul-collingwood-missing-sex-scandal-tax-fine-13943208.html
Yes I alluded to this a few months back when his name was mentioned in dispatches. It seems not only his hair is colourful.
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I suspect McCullum might be asked to focus on the white ball team which would make more sense as it lowers his workload and who gives a monkeys about white ball cricket.