Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: Oldhasbeen on October 24, 2024, 09:06:14 AM
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Jordon Cox as keeper for all 3 NZ Tests???? An insult to Ben Foakes and Ollie Robinson, IMHO, and a high-risk one at that.
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It's consistent with the Key regime's contemptuous attitude towards county cricket-picking very inexperienced bowlers on promise alone (Bashir, Rehan Ahmed, Hull), playing players out of position (Lawrence opening, Smith-whose drop of Saud today may have cost England the series-as keeper, Pope overplaced at three), and forcing the Championship into the late winter and early autumn so spinners get insufficient bowling time. But hey, they know best, and who are we old f**ts to argue?
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Would be interesting where Cox bats in the lineup, a straight swop for Smith ?
Number three position is a problem for England with Pope not scoring runs, but like most, harder to get out the side than stay in it, especially if your vice captain.
Interesting series, especially has NZ confidence must be high has a kite, after the fantastic result with their first series win in India.
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Would be interesting where Cox bats in the lineup, a straight swop for Smith ?
Number three position is a problem for England with Pope not scoring runs, but like most, harder to get out the side than stay in it, especially if your vice captain.
Interesting series, especially has NZ confidence must be high has a kite, after the fantastic result with their first series win in India.
If Cox keeps wicket in Smith's absence then I think he'll bat 7 and Pope will stay in the team at 3. But Pope may benefit from time out of the team, so perhaps Ollie Robinson to keep wicket and bat 7 and Cox at 3? It's a big call for Cox to keep wicket.
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Beware Santer! Given what has happened on the sun continent expect raging Bunsens in Kiwiland.
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Thought Santner gave up red ball cricket or am I completely incorrect ?
However a great result for the Kiwis, is it the end of an era for India cricket, last lost a home series to A Cook England in 2012.
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Thought Santner gave up red ball cricket or am I completely incorrect ?
However a great result for the Kiwis, is it the end of an era for India cricket, last lost a home series to A Cook England in 2012.
Obviously incorrect. He rolled over the almighty Indians in their backyard. A few too many egos in the current Indian team?
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Incredible whitewash for the NZ in India, who now have a test series in Australia where they have do well recently, so let?s see how the Indians perform.
Well the spinners put back in the closet for NZ tour, and Cox struggling to find some form, interesting times, not just for England .
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Ollie Robinson called for the tour of NZ.
Not a strange decision, has he is a very competent keeper and bat, but why did it take so long after Cox?s injury. Will miss the first test, with Pope now got the gloves.
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Maybe Robinson wasn't first choice and others weren't able for contractual reasons to travel or turned them down? Foakes, for example may have lost interest and Salt (who would be a typical McCullum pick) is playing in the T10 tournament.
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I read that the problem was that Robinson needed to renew his passport!
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I read that the problem was that Robinson needed to renew his passport!
Cr*p organisation. Must do better!!!
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Bethel at three, Stokes at 7?????
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Bethel at three, Stokes at 7?????
Stokes not the player he was. No. 7 is about right for him...if he should be in the team at all.
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Bethel at three, Stokes at 7?????
Stokes not the player he was. No. 7 is about right for him...if he should be in the team at all.
I agree that old Ben hasn't done much for a while - but I'd still rather see him at 3 and Bethel at 7. Bethel at 3 has shades of Dan opening.
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Nathan Smith takes out Joe Root first ball. I'm sure you'll all be pleased to know where he'll be playing his cricket next summer...
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Nathan Smith takes out Joe Root first ball. I'm sure you'll all be pleased to know where he'll be playing his cricket next summer...
Dammit. I thought he was back at Worcestershire, not heading to the Oval. A Worrall and Smith partnership is going to be far too effective.
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Brook shows his class again and Pope should probably bat 6 and keep the gloves all series. He was set for a hundred until that amazing catch from Phillips.
I thought Bethell played well on debut in very difficult conditions.
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Catches win matches, and the England innings would be over if the NZ had taken theirs. Pope was the unfortunate won, to see his shot caught by a stunning catch, but Brook must buy a lottery ticket with four drops. Bethell was on a hiding to nothing in the worse of conditions but played sensibility, but was always one delivery away from one having your name on it .
NZ primary spinner Snater not included in squad, so was he talked into the India tour, knowing he would get a place in the side automatically.
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Catches win matches, and the England innings would be over if the NZ had taken theirs. Pope was the unfortunate won, to see his shot caught by a stunning catch, but Brook must buy a lottery ticket with four drops. Bethell was on a hiding to nothing in the worse of conditions but played sensibility, but was always one delivery away from one having your name on it .
NZ primary spinner Snater not included in squad, so was he talked into the India tour, knowing he would get a place in the side automatically.
He's in the squad for the next two tests. They just didn't plan to play a specialist spinner at this venue. He did miss the last India Test injured as well.
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I think we mean Santner? Even Shane Snater couldn?t sign up for a third nationality?
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I think we mean Santner? Even Shane Snater couldn?t sign up for a third nationality?
All the letters are there, but necessary in the right order . Yep , Santner .
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I think we mean Santner? Even Shane Snater couldn?t sign up for a third nationality?
All the letters are there, but necessary in the right order . Yep , Santner .
Have Santner and Snater ever been seen on the same pitch together?
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Are Atkinson and Carse now the tail ? Only Bashir now looks a tailenders.
Will Robinson get the gloves on arrival has Pope has done a decent job, and who would be dropped for his inclusion ?
England now in pole position after two quick important wickets by Woakes just has NZ were about to get a lead .
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Someone pointed out that Carse has a better FC average than Bethell. I think they might stick with Pope as 'keeper for the series and give Bethell a few more games.
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Has Test cricket ever been weaker? If Bashir, Carse and Atkinson are Test match bowlers then I'm a dutchman.
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The difference in this match appears to be that the hosts would have trouble catching covid, let alone a cricket ball. Watching the first day or so I couldn't help wondering what Sam Cook may have done.
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Has Test cricket ever been weaker? If Bashir, Carse and Atkinson are Test match bowlers then I'm a dutchman.
What would you like us to call you? Johan? Ruud? Arjen?
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The difference in this match appears to be that the hosts would have trouble catching covid, let alone a cricket ball. Watching the first day or so I couldn't help wondering what Sam Cook may have done.
Worst fielding ever by a NZ team, by a country mile.
Carse and Atkinson are both good enough to bat at 8, and Woakes' pace has dropped off, so I can't see any case for preferring Woakes over Little Chef now.
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Took longer than expected , having to take extra half hour at lunch to knock them over.
Ten wicket haul for Carse, and more wickets in the next couple of tests would put him on the plane down under next year. Got all the credentials that England want, pace, bounce, bash a ball and stays fit.
Bethell to stay at three, could not have got better conditions to the first innings .
Same team next test . Pope to keep the gloves .
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Has Test cricket ever been weaker? If Bashir, Carse and Atkinson are Test match bowlers then I'm a dutchman.
Carse reminds me a bit of Simon Jones. Very average first class bowler but seems more suited to Test Cricket.
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Has Test cricket ever been weaker? If Bashir, Carse and Atkinson are Test match bowlers then I'm a dutchman.
Carse reminds me a bit of Simon Jones. Very average first class bowler but seems more suited to Test Cricket.
Must happen. Remember in the test side you have the back up of four other test bowlers for support.
Every time I see him, looks like a giant spinner who played for Essex and England .
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Deja vue for England on the first day of second test.
Lost the toss, ball and bat swung, Brook and Pope get England out of considerable trouble, then take late wickets to pin the Kiwis back.
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Second day and a lead of 500 plus, says it all really. Everyone gets into the action except Crawley.
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Who misses out when Smith comes back? It may be a bit harsh for Pope to be dropped, but Bethell does look more confident at 3. Crawley might be under pressure, but they'll probably be loathe to break up the opening partnership.
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Smith will have to wait his turn.
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Who misses out when Smith comes back? It may be a bit harsh for Pope to be dropped, but Bethell does look more confident at 3. Crawley might be under pressure, but they'll probably be loathe to break up the opening partnership.
Don't worry India and the Aussies will provide a reality check. Only Root and Brook(the English Bradman) are up to the job against decent bowling.
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Who misses out when Smith comes back? It may be a bit harsh for Pope to be dropped, but Bethell does look more confident at 3. Crawley might be under pressure, but they'll probably be loathe to break up the opening partnership.
Don't worry India and the Aussies will provide a reality check. Only Root and Brook(the English Bradman) are up to the job against decent bowling.
Ultimately it depends on who?s fit and firing at the time.
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Watching Bethell and wondering how on earth we never seen him at the top order for Warwickshire.
Players like him are why Charlie Allison need to be playing for Essex and given proper responsibility over the tired old grizzly county pros like Browne. No wonder England have such distain for county cricket.
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When it is good it is good, when it is bad it is horrific, so a brilliant bazball game for England . Could not do nothing wrong and the series wrapped up with one to play. Pope has done well behind the stumps, Bethell can cause a problem to the line up if he starts to score big runs and just missed out on a century.
Who was the last England player to have a test century but not a first class century for his county ?
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When it is good it is good, when it is bad it is horrific, so a brilliant bazball game for England . Could not do nothing wrong and the series wrapped up with one to play. Pope has done well behind the stumps, Bethell can cause a problem to the line up if he starts to score big runs and just missed out on a century.
Who was the last England player to have a test century but not a first class century for his county ?
Gus Atkinson. Not sure it's happened for a batter.
A comfortable win. I was glad that New Zealand showed some fight in the end, but how can this be the team that recently beat India 3-0?
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When it is good it is good, when it is bad it is horrific, so a brilliant bazball game for England . Could not do nothing wrong and the series wrapped up with one to play. Pope has done well behind the stumps, Bethell can cause a problem to the line up if he starts to score big runs and just missed out on a century.
Who was the last England player to have a test century but not a first class century for his county ?
Gus Atkinson. Not sure it's happened for a batter.
A comfortable win. I was glad that New Zealand showed some fight in the end, but how can this be the team that recently beat India 3-0?
Atkinson, got a century and a hat trick, quite a rare occurrence.
Agree does seem strange with the NZ result, but the India batting was pretty awful and NZ had two spinners who obviously now do not play home series.
Looking like Ashes tour next winter could become Young England side against a more senior Aussie outfit. Interesting about the selection of McSweeney to open, with a few contenders he was picked primarily because he is a good leaver of the ball.
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Great day's Test cricket today. I thought our seamers were rather unlucky before lunch but stuck to their task well.
But I fully expect Zak C's torture to continue tomorrow. He doesn't seem to be capable of learning anything about playing a moving ball.
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Good to see a Guard of Honour for Southee, now scored more test match sixes than Chris Gayle !
Stuck to there task, but no overs for the spinner, strange .
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Good to see a Guard of Honour for Southee, now scored more test match sixes than Chris Gayle !
Stuck to there task, but no overs for the spinner, strange .
Yup, I thought so too. Not even the "one before lunch/tea/close"
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Wheels come off the England batting. Don?t do draws England, need to try one, has next winter it could become vital.
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Wheels come off the England batting. Don?t do draws England, need to try one, has next winter it could become vital.
Quite!
I watched the highlights this morning, it was a pretty painful experience. Duckett's shot should have shamed a 2nd XI player, and although Crawley's LBW was marginal, I've no sympathy with him as he walked across his stumps and played across the line. Not the way to play late in the day.
As Ally pointed out, you should have a bit of sympathy for the bowlers when the batsmen can't last 40 overs.
Although there have been some big pluses over the last 12 months - Brook proving himself world-class, Smith, Carse and Atkinson showing they can do it at Test level - big questions remain e.g. the number 3 problem, whether Crawley is good enough, and which spinner we should select. Bashir may have a "high ceiling" but is still bowling too much poop and his batting and fielding remain embarrassing. A lot to do next summer.
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McCullum and Stokes are doing massive damage to Test cricket. Two mad professors thinking it's a jolly jape to play Test cricket as if it's a beer match.
Why should I (and 000s of others) spend my pension on travelling to watch the Ashes next winter?!
Get these clowns outa here.
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McCullum and Stokes are doing massive damage to Test cricket. Two mad professors thinking it's a jolly jape to play Test cricket as if it's a beer match.
Why should I (and 000s of others) spend my pension on travelling to watch the Ashes next winter?!
Get these clowns outa here.
So, throw the baby out with the dirty bath water?
Did you prefer where we were before the Bazball era, 1 win in 17 Tests, turgid batting and still having periodic collapses?
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The problem is that this England team swings wildly from pole to pole. It seems that if the opponents are off form we do well, but when they recover the England team struggles. It often reflects the personality of the skipper. Mike Brearley mentioned how Tony Greig reverted very abruptly between defence and attack, suddenly scattering the field once a pair got set and vice versa when a partnership was ended. Similarly Brearley noted how Brian Close became easily frustrated in the field and would crowd batsmen who were set, rather than showing more patience.
Neither were ?bad? skippers, indeed both ought to have captained the side more often than those ?safe? public schoolboy options that selectors preferred. However they perhaps needed an alternative perspective from a senior player and/or coach.
Kudos to the Kiwis for showing the value of orthodoxy in Test cricket.
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The Kiwis have stunk the series out and are only winning this Test because England are effectively 'on the beach'. The majority of those players have one thing on their minds and that's Christmas at home with their families. Shouldn't have played more than a two-match series.
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The Kiwis have stunk the series out and are only winning this Test because England are effectively 'on the beach'. The majority of those players have one thing on their minds and that's Christmas at home with their families. Shouldn't have played more than a two-match series.
There is more to it than what you say. England have thrown in the towel in the last test of the last three or four series. This is becoming a habit and one they must break to compete against the big boys.
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The Kiwis have stunk the series out and are only winning this Test because England are effectively 'on the beach'. The majority of those players have one thing on their minds and that's Christmas at home with their families. Shouldn't have played more than a two-match series.
There is more to it than what you say. England have thrown in the towel in the last test of the last three or four series. This is becoming a habit and one they must break to compete against the big boys.
Agreed. No golfing for these naughty boys. Sir Geoffrey would get them in tomorrow for some extra net practice.
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Set a fanciful 658, England were hustled out for 234 midway through the fourth afternoon to lose by 423 runs, their largest defeat by the Black Caps in terms of runs and fourth-largest by anyone.
Aussies must be laughing.
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Why should I (and 000s of others) spend my pension on travelling to watch the Ashes next winter?!
Don't go, then.
Professional live (in-person) spectator sport isn't designed for people to spend huge amounts of time and money on, travelling vast distances and staying in hotels, to watch. Its primary purpose is to entertain locally-based people.
Because your sports team can lose, bringing disappointment, it carries with it risk vs reward. When you live locally and your team gets hammered you can go home within an hour and quickly get over it and go again next week.
Travelling substantial distances and spending a lot of money on a sports match is a relatively new thing that has come with increased mobility, free time and disposable income.
If you choose to do it, that's absolutely fine. But the risk to reward ratio will then get seriously skewed towards the risk that you might face a huge let-down relative to the time and money you have invested. That's a risk YOU choose to take. No sports team in the world, not even Bayern Munich, can make the promise that they won't turn in a dud performance because a fan travelled across the world to watch them.
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At one time you wished to watch an overseas tour, you had to make your own arrangements. With them being organised, the prices have been gouged by some factor. I always say that these tours and associated functions must be good. As I have seen the prices and cannot stop laughing.
Also, there will be people on the tour, that you would not wish to meet at Chelmsford, and especially spend weeks with.
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Agreed. No golfing for these naughty boys. Sir Geoffrey would get them in tomorrow for some extra net practice.
The shots Duckett and Pope played to get out suggest they need brain transplants rather than extra net practice.
Some of our guys need to learn some mental toughness. The Aussies seem to be born with it.
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Agreed. No golfing for these naughty boys. Sir Geoffrey would get them in tomorrow for some extra net practice.
The shots Duckett and Pope played to get out suggest they need brain transplants rather than extra net practice.
Some of our guys need to learn some mental toughness. The Aussies seem to be born with it.
Duckett and Pope come from the 'silver spoon' brigade. Need a few players from the 'school of hard knocks'.
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At one time you wished to watch an overseas tour, you had to make your own arrangements. With them being organised, the prices have been gouged by some factor. I always say that these tours and associated functions must be good. As I have seen the prices and cannot stop laughing.
Also, there will be people on the tour, that you would not wish to meet at Chelmsford, and especially spend weeks with.
That's why I would never go with an organised tour.
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Agreed. No golfing for these naughty boys. Sir Geoffrey would get them in tomorrow for some extra net practice.
The shots Duckett and Pope played to get out suggest they need brain transplants rather than extra net practice.
Some of our guys need to learn some mental toughness. The Aussies seem to be born with it.
Duckett and Pope come from the 'silver spoon' brigade. Need a few players from the 'school of hard knocks'.
There's something in that, with Pope at least. He's had it too easy scoring easy runs by the ton on a friendly pitch in the county game, reminds me of Graham Hick in that respect.
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At one time you wished to watch an overseas tour, you had to make your own arrangements. With them being organised, the prices have been gouged by some factor. I always say that these tours and associated functions must be good. As I have seen the prices and cannot stop laughing.
Also, there will be people on the tour, that you would not wish to meet at Chelmsford, and especially spend weeks with.
That's why I would never go with an organised tour.
Having been on several, I won't be going again, certainly not down under because another mega thrashing is all too likely. I've met some great people on these trips but also a few I'd go a long way to avoid-including a gent who said his family had paid the bill to give him a break. It was obvious they really wanted a break from him!
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Paying for someone to go on an England cricket tour. It is the modern equivalent of a remittance man. Who was part of a wealthy family, who sent him somewhere in the Empire with an allowance. On the understanding that he never contacted them or returned to the UK.
I have an autobiography by Sir Len Hutton, and he lists the accredited press who went on an Ashes tour with the England party. There was quite a list. I wonder how many will be on the list and of those in the media, how many could call themselves a proper journalist.
On an England tour. I would have liked to join in with the repetitive singing of no surrender to the IRA and the National Anthem. Unfortunately, I can never remember the words.
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Paying for someone to go on an England cricket tour. It is the modern equivalent of a remittance man. Who was part of a wealthy family, who sent him somewhere in the Empire with an allowance. On the understanding that he never contacted them or returned to the UK.
I have an autobiography by Sir Len Hutton, and he lists the accredited press who went on an Ashes tour with the England party. There was quite a list. I wonder how many will be on the list and of those in the media, how many could call themselves a proper journalist.
On an England tour. I would have liked to join in with the repetitive singing of no surrender to the IRA and the National Anthem. Unfortunately, I can never remember the words.
I?m getting a bit concerned about you, vim.
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I would direct your concern elsewhere, before you come to me.
It was a member, who became a Steward after retiring. Told me, that being on the gate all day, he noticed how many members have issues.
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Agreed. No golfing for these naughty boys. Sir Geoffrey would get them in tomorrow for some extra net practice.
The shots Duckett and Pope played to get out suggest they need brain transplants rather than extra net practice.
Some of our guys need to learn some mental toughness. The Aussies seem to be born with it.
Duckett and Pope come from the 'silver spoon' brigade. Need a few players from the 'school of hard knocks'.
Duckett's scores in this winter's Tests have been
84
114
0
52
12
46
27
0
92
11
4
Average 40.18