Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => Official Q&A => Topic started by: Mog on August 20, 2023, 08:26:01 PM
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Shame about the result.
Was a good day and shows how out ground cricket CAN still work.
Being at the ground no one sitting with me could understand why the field was bought in at the last over.
Even the Leicestershire supporters said it was going to gift a boundary
Have you noticed how the majority of counties have played at out grounds for the 50 over Cup, some more than one. Even Hampshire are taking a game to the IOW this coming week.
Personally, as someone who grew up watching Essex at a minimum of three home festival venues, I find the Club's inability to even have a conversation about how an outground may work and be integrated into this competition, really disappointing. But utterly unsurprising.
The aforementioned Hants excused themselves by concentrating all their efforts on the Rose Bowl, fair enough. Meanwhile our uninspiring and devoid of any imagination lot stick exclusively to 80s relic, Chelmsford - the poorest and most outmoded county HQ on the circuit, for the fifteenth year on the spin.
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Shame about the result.
Was a good day and shows how out ground cricket CAN still work.
Being at the ground no one sitting with me could understand why the field was bought in at the last over.
Even the Leicestershire supporters said it was going to gift a boundary
Have you noticed how the majority of counties have played at out grounds for the 50 over Cup, some more than one. Even Hampshire are taking a game to the IOW this coming week.
Personally, as someone who grew up watching Essex at a minimum of three home festival venues, I find the Club's inability to even have a conversation about how an outground may work and be integrated into this competition, really disappointing. But utterly unsurprising.
The aforementioned Hants excused themselves by concentrating all their efforts on the Rose Bowl, fair enough. Meanwhile our uninspiring and devoid of any imagination lot stick exclusively to 80s relic, Chelmsford - the poorest and most outmoded county HQ on the circuit, for the fifteenth year on the spin.
You got a wealthy backer who can bankroll a new ground?
It’s old ground, but we should have either sold and moved on in the early 90s or at least bought the old hospital so we expanded out onto new writtle street and/or made a killing by building new office blocks. Instead we waited until the football ground was available which is really not the right time or side of the ground. Hence we are still shoehorned into a position bounded by river, bypass and private housing, akin to Kenilworth Road.
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Shame about the result.
Was a good day and shows how out ground cricket CAN still work.
Being at the ground no one sitting with me could understand why the field was bought in at the last over.
Even the Leicestershire supporters said it was going to gift a boundary
Have you noticed how the majority of counties have played at out grounds for the 50 over Cup, some more than one. Even Hampshire are taking a game to the IOW this coming week.
Personally, as someone who grew up watching Essex at a minimum of three home festival venues, I find the Club's inability to even have a conversation about how an outground may work and be integrated into this competition, really disappointing. But utterly unsurprising.
The aforementioned Hants excused themselves by concentrating all their efforts on the Rose Bowl, fair enough. Meanwhile our uninspiring and devoid of any imagination lot stick exclusively to 80s relic, Chelmsford - the poorest and most outmoded county HQ on the circuit, for the fifteenth year on the spin.
Well said. Agree with every word.
Chelmsford has become an embarrassment. I am struggling to think of a county ground which is scruffier. I would ask anyone who disputes this to go and sit in the front row of the Tom Pearce Upper stand and admire the peeling paint on the railings. And we are pushing for one day internationals at the ground?
As for the main scoreboard, words fail me. Not only does it not show the information people want to see, ie how the last wicket fell, number of extras etc, it is constantly freezing and often just shuts down completely.
I feel so grateful that I was able to see Essex play at a number of outgrounds over the years. Nothing nowadays comes close to the enjoyment of a festival week at Castle Park, Southchurch Park or even Valentines Park.
And yes, we had considerably less hitches with the old mobile scoreboard than the current internet reliant piece of junk.
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Chelmsford has become an embarrassment. I am struggling to think of a county ground which is scruffier.
I feel so grateful that I was able to see Essex play at a number of outgrounds over the years. Nothing nowadays comes close to the enjoyment of a festival week at Castle Park, Southchurch Park or even Valentines Park.
Stewwy, you are a man after my own heart.
Without festival weeks at Leyton and Valentine's Park I doubt if I would have ever got into county cricket at all. I'm even nostalgic about Harlow, remembering some exciting low-scoring JPL games there in the early 70s.
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The decrepitude does not confine itself to the popular areas. I have been informed that the broken toilet seat in the ladies in the Premier suite has not been fixed for 2 or 3 seasons.
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What does the Ground Manager do in the winter? The players steps from the Pavillion are filthy need a good clean up. A bit of paint here and there would just spruce things up a bit.
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Last Season Somerset used a scruffy old sheet full of holes as a sightsceen - their scoreboard was broken and had missing pixels.
At Northampton the roof leaks in the main Members area there is nowhere to shelter safely if you do not want to sit indoors.
At Canterbury the Frank Woolley was condemned and had buddleia growing out of it - they had to appeal to members for money to refurbish it.
At Cheltenham there is nowhere at all to shelter if it rains. Ditto many outgrounds e.g Radlett
I know Chelmsford is tired but some of you clearly have not observed the problems elsewhere - above I give a few examples
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Last Season Somerset used a scruffy old sheet full of holes as a sightsceen - their scoreboard was broken and had missing pixels.
At Northampton the roof leaks in the main Members area there is nowhere to shelter safely if you do not want to sit indoors.
At Canterbury the Frank Woolley was condemned and had buddleia growing out of it - they had to appeal to members for money to refurbish it.
At Cheltenham there is nowhere at all to shelter if it rains. Ditto many outgrounds e.g Radlett
I know Chelmsford is tired but some of you clearly have not observed the problems elsewhere - above I give a few examples
Fair points, 548. You are obviously a better-travelled man than me these days.
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Shame about the result.
Was a good day and shows how out ground cricket CAN still work.
Being at the ground no one sitting with me could understand why the field was bought in at the last over.
Even the Leicestershire supporters said it was going to gift a boundary
Have you noticed how the majority of counties have played at out grounds for the 50 over Cup, some more than one. Even Hampshire are taking a game to the IOW this coming week.
Personally, as someone who grew up watching Essex at a minimum of three home festival venues, I find the Club's inability to even have a conversation about how an outground may work and be integrated into this competition, really disappointing. But utterly unsurprising.
The aforementioned Hants excused themselves by concentrating all their efforts on the Rose Bowl, fair enough. Meanwhile our uninspiring and devoid of any imagination lot stick exclusively to 80s relic, Chelmsford - the poorest and most outmoded county HQ on the circuit, for the fifteenth year on the spin.
You got a wealthy backer who can bankroll a new ground?
It’s old ground, but we should have either sold and moved on in the early 90s or at least bought the old hospital so we expanded out onto new writtle street and/or made a killing by building new office blocks. Instead we waited until the football ground was available which is really not the right time or side of the ground. Hence we are still shoehorned into a position bounded by river, bypass and private housing, akin to Kenilworth Road.
Andy, Think we've been here before, several times!
We may have had a redeveloped Chelmsford County Ground - unfortunately, the genius project team tasked with delivering, consisted of ex-players and their equally incompetent mates.
Some fifteen years after the drawings were unveiled, well, some of it was, (the parts they didn't want us to see were redacted), to general apathy. Not a single aspect of the spectator facilities promised have ever materialised.
As you know I was a big advocate of the purchase of the hospital site (late '80s-early '90s) when ECCC were a thrusting Club with competent financial management (P.Edwards, M.Field) - and a deep investment fund.
With some imagination, the Chelmsford City ground and training field would have enabled an expanded site, to have completely rebuilt and enlarged the dimensions/facilities of County Ground and have provided an adjacent Colts ground.
The regime that followed, PE and MF wasted most of that inheritance, not to mention goodwill by signing the likes of Alex Tudor, and other half-fit mates of our former captain on big fat salaries to spend most of each season either injured or 'delivering' half-hearted performances.
I digress, however. The point I was fundamentally making is why are Essex CCC unable to provide a single out-ground, even if it is only for a 50 over Cup venue? There really is no excuse!
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I don’t disagree with your analysis of the situation regarding the club's lost opportunity over the ground or the possibility of using an out ground.
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I don’t disagree with your analysis of the situation regarding the club's lost opportunity over the ground or the possibility of using an out ground.
Of course there is an excuse for not using outgrounds. They lose money!
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The thing I find puzzling is if they lose money why have some many counties managed to do this?
I was at the Leicestershire game and it did not seem to be much cost involved! We brought our own chairs. Mobile caterers. Etc etc
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Just a question to anybody in the know regarding out grounds. Even if Essex were willing and can afford it would the county need permission from local councils to play professional sport? If the local councils say no; Essex couldn't do anything about it?
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In the accounts, there was a breakdown of what the three outgrounds made.
Ilford made a loss and Southend made a profit. Colchester made a small profit, one year it was £50 for one weeks work.
Regarding the ground development and the old Football ground. Not that much blame can be attached to Peter Edwards as at the time he was in poor health and not fully aware of everything that was going on. The club wanted to use the Football ground site for car parking and wished to obtain funding from the Lottery fund. However that does not pay for parking places so the club said it would be used for nets for Juniors cricket. As proved by the saying that you cannot con an honest man, an approach was made to the then club accountant from a man who no one ever met. He said that he would out bid the club for the site unless the club paid him a £100k consultation fee to work with him. The fee was paid and he was never heard of again by any means.
By the time questions were asked. The accountant had left the club and Peter Edwards had died, so there was no chance of an answer.
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Thanks Vim, not sure its impossible to con an honest person...but certainly the club's mismanagement of both finances, and increasingly it would appear in the dressing room, has effected the club ever since - despite having had a run in the past 8 years to rival the glory days of the 1980s. I wonder who was that masked mystery bidder?
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No one knows what happened to the £100k. The man was Mr Robinson, as no one met him in the flesh his name could have been anyone.
The latest ground redevelopment was unveiled at a members forum. There was a photograph of David East with a model of it holding a pen. It looked as though he was about to cut a novelty birthday cake.
At the forum David East's right hand job man Keith Brown was rather cagey about answering questions about exactly what the completed development would look like. You would have thought he would know at such a late stage. Unless he did not want the members to find out what they were going to get.
David East moved to Dubai. The place abroad that replaced Spain as the go to destination if you are a loser.
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Last season John Faragher, just after the ground development was dead. Although like a Hammer film. it may still rise up again. Was telling the Premier suite that when he tried to get an update from Derek Bowden. He only got the song Things can only get better.
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Just a question to anybody in the know regarding out grounds. Even if Essex were willing and can afford it would the county need permission from local councils to play professional sport? If the local councils say no; Essex couldn't do anything about it?
That's simple- you collaborate and build professional relationships with the respective council......(As everyone recognises, local authorities have basically been defunded by the Treasury over the past decade and more).
Sadly, there is little that's engaging or collaborative about No Change Essex for an even longer period of time.
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No one knows what happened to the £100k. The man was Mr Robinson, as no one met him in the flesh his name could have been anyone.
The latest ground redevelopment was unveiled at a members forum. There was a photograph of David East with a model of it holding a pen. It looked as though he was about to cut a novelty birthday cake.
At the forum David East's right hand job man Keith Brown was rather cagey about answering questions about exactly what the completed development would look like. You would have thought he would know at such a late stage. Unless he did not want the members to find out what they were going to get.
David East moved to Dubai. The place abroad that replaced Spain as the go to destination if you are a loser.
That was the never released plan/design for the River End. In essence the Club's design consisted of three rows of open seats abutting a block of eight to twelve storey flats (to make the most of the aspect - over the river!) ECCC neither wanted to reveal or to explain any of this to members as they knew it would cause outrage. Neither did they bother consulting engineering specialists, or the Environment Agency - as it transpired it would have likely created a flood risk to Chelmsford (the City as well as the ground!)
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David East moved to Dubai. The place abroad that replaced Spain as the go to destination if you are a loser.
Or a fugitive.
At the time - circa 2011 - I was approached by David East to get together a consortium of my City contacts to invest in the ground redevelopment. He was looking for £85mln, which I suggested was out of the question; where is the return on such a big investment for a ground that was not hosting (Men's) international matches. The idea of building three blocks of flats around the site was also spurious, especially the plan to build one of them behind the scoreboard - surely there wasn't enough space and the disruption to the playing area would be huge. Was there a contingency to relocate for the one or two years it would take to construct these buildings? East thought this could all be done without disruption! I suggested a more realistic idea of demolishing the current pavilion and corporate hospitality/Premier Suite buildings and replacing them with state-of-the art facilities. Spectator stands could be upgraded - double-deck stands all along the River End - and more efficient use be made of the site to increase capacity. To monetise the plan, I suggested creating a plaza stretching from the river, behind the pavilion and probably partly into the area now used as a car park. Draw in some anchor investors, such as Nando's, Jamie Oliver and the like to take sites on the plaza, such has now been done on Springfield Road and Bond Street. Have a club shop in amongst all this to sell Essex-related merchandise to a bigger footfall. This would have had the added benefit of creating more all-year-round income for the club. I reckoned this would cost nearer to £25mln-£30mln and would be more attractive to investors, as well as minimalising on-field disruption. My suggestion was rebuffed, the flats plan went ahead and the builders apparently scarpered after the first block was completed and East departed for the Middle East.
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Your plans made more sense, Daren, but what to do now?
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Your plans made more sense, Daren, but what to do now?
Interesting synopsis by Daren.
What to do now? Hmm.....
Let's look at the facts:
ECCC's HQ ground is unfit for purpose.
Is the current site able to be redeveloped? - Not if the people who manage and administer the Club and appear to stick rigidly to the world view and (in)actions of their predecessors - sometimes known as the Essex Way - I'd call it The do nothing policy of No Change Essex.
The Club belatedly decided to attempt a plan to redevelop the County Ground at the time of a World economic crisis - however, the plan was unworkable irrespectively and would therefore have not been delivered in any economic era. The Club's members chose to not challenge the Club in sufficient number over this matter - and the consequence is the debate now - ongoing fifteen years' later.
To progress this, what redevelopment (not relocating to a new HQ: Hants, Durham) has taken place at non Test Match stadia in the UK in the past thirty years?
Developments have generally translated as piecemeal development, predicated on corporate hospitality. County Cricket clubs are not wealthy in this category. The only example of a significant and transformative redevelopment of scale has been the transformation that Somerset have delivered at Taunton.
That appears to be the template to follow, if Essex are planning to remain at the current site. Taunton is every bit as constrained a site as Chelmsford and shares other similarities such as a town centre location, which most ECCC members and supporters seem to enjoy as a setting. Unlike Essex, who doubled down and bragged endlessly, didn't listen to any different opinions - par for the course! Then became defensive and employed ridiculous boosterism when they perhaps should have come clean when presented with the reality that their 'redevelopment' project was a non-starter.
My view is and has always been that the site is too restricted, and although the general facilities could be significantly improved, the footprint is not capable of increasing the capacity to any real tangible degree. What do ECCC's stakeholders want? A big increase in capacity or just a modern stadium that enhances the experience of going to a game, whether watching, playing or corporate. You could achieve the latter, but the former ....?
A modern version of the Riverside and Tom Pearce stands, that would sweep around to the scoreboard, but without the supporting uprights of the existing structures, could be a good starting point to a phased redevelopment.
Unfortunately, poor decision making, failing to listen or engage and inaction, notwithstanding the '90s con man, mean the only tangible areas for expansion; the old hospital side land and the club car park are no longer options.
So, the only realistic scenario is a new out of town HQ, but without backing and with the existing mindset that has beset ECCC for a generation, that is currently unlikely. Maybe that is a good thing....
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No a new out of town ground won't fly. The existing ground could sustain a modest increase in capacity, say to 7000. This would suffice for most matches but the big win would be better player and corporate facilities.
All of this *could* be done on the existing ground and would leave us with a sustainable club in an excellent location.
The cost? I'd guesstimate at £30m.
Glenn Tamplin rebuilt the Billericay Town FC ground in 10 weeks for a fraction of this cost. Granted GT is/was an unconventional businessman but it does show what can be done with determination.
Come on let's get this thing done.
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Glenn Tamplin rebuilt the Billericay Town FC ground in 10 weeks for a fraction of this cost. Granted GT is/was an unconventional businessman but it does show what can be done with determination.
Come on let's get this thing done.
“An unconventional businessman…”?
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“An unconventional businessman…”?
Code for chancer.
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“An unconventional businessman…”?
Code for chancer.
He was was declared bankrupt in April 2023.
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No a new out of town ground won't fly. The existing ground could sustain a modest increase in capacity, say to 7000. This would suffice for most matches but the big win would be better player and corporate facilities.
All of this *could* be done on the existing ground and would leave us with a sustainable club in an excellent location.
The cost? I'd guesstimate at £30m.
Glenn Tamplin rebuilt the Billericay Town FC ground in 10 weeks for a fraction of this cost. Granted GT is/was an unconventional businessman but it does show what can be done with determination.
Come on let's get this thing done.
Can't believe you called me out regarding reputable characters, then name checked him!!!
And no, a capacity of 7k will not be sufficient if we want to survive long term, although you are right regarding corp/media/player facilities. We can and would sell far more tickets than 7k for Friday night T20 games alone and we'd need to if we want to sustain a redevelopment. Should be aiming at 10k, but as Mog said, frustratingly probably not feasible.
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“An unconventional businessman…”?
Code for chancer.
He was was declared bankrupt in April 2023.
But the ground got built and still exists. All successful businessmen go through bankruptcy at least once!
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“An unconventional businessman…”?
Code for chancer.
He was was declared bankrupt in April 2023.
But the ground got built and still exists. All successful businessmen go through bankruptcy at least once!
He is bit gangsta, man innit?
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During my time as Chairman at Billericay CC, I had a lot of dealings with Glenn Tamplin and his "unconventional" approach. But he did have drive, determination and ambition and as Nat correctly highlighted, he may be long gone (Thailand, last I heard), but the excellent football ground he built remains. He also helped increase interest in colts and women's and girls football. He still owes me a tenner though...
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"Essex Cricket forms exciting new partnership with Wickes". Ground development sorted. A stroke of genius.
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During my time as Chairman at Billericay CC, I had a lot of dealings with Glenn Tamplin and his "unconventional" approach. But he did have drive, determination and ambition and as Nat correctly highlighted, he may be long gone (Thailand, last I heard), but the excellent football ground he built remains. He also helped increase interest in colts and women's and girls football. He still owes me a tenner though...
I’m assuming that you checked the clubs bank balance?
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"Essex Cricket forms exciting new partnership with Wickes". Ground development sorted. A stroke of genius.
....the County Ground Chelmsford, redeveloped into a Wickes warehouse more likely!
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Wickes were roasted on BBC Morning Live for poor workmanship ...
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Wickes were roasted on BBC Morning Live for poor workmanship ...
…they are suppliers? If I purchase some shelves from them its my fault if they fall off the wall?
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Wickes were roasted on BBC Morning Live for poor workmanship ...
…they are suppliers? If I purchase some shelves from them its my fault if they fall off the wall?
They do offer fitting of kitchens ...
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Wickes were roasted on BBC Morning Live for poor workmanship ...
…they are suppliers? If I purchase some shelves from them its my fault if they fall off the wall?
They do offer fitting of kitchens ...
…and a fine job they do of it, I’m sure.
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Wickes were roasted on BBC Morning Live for poor workmanship ...
…they are suppliers? If I purchase some shelves from them its my fault if they fall off the wall?
They do offer fitting of kitchens ...
…and a fine job they do of it, I’m sure.
No that was the issue ...
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When the latest plans were unveiled. There was talk of income from Student accommodation. Higher Education is having a funding crisis, not helped by the loophole being closed where overseas students can come on a visa to study flower arranging.
Some institutions may have to merge. The development will not be very useful to commute to Wivenhoe.
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When the latest plans were unveiled. There was talk of income from Student accommodation. Higher Education is having a funding crisis, not helped by the loophole being closed where overseas students can come on a visa to study flower arranging.
Some institutions may have to merge. The development will not be very useful to commute to Wivenhoe.
Tell me about it.
You do know there is a big university the other side of the Chelmsford City Centre? Up here there have been students studying in Manchester, but with student accommodation near Liverpool. That may decline as more skyscrapers have been built, but hopefully we will have students needing accommodation in Manchester and also Chelmsford.
Although I am fed up with the Boomers and their digs at HE, which is either jealousy or pig ignorance. Remember that the average Essex school leaver in the 60s and 70s tried to get an apprenticeship with Hoffman?s or Marconis. Those days are gone and the likes of Anglia Ruskin are trying to fill the gap through apprenticeship programmes alongside more traditional degrees.
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I want the current management team to commit to the club and stay put and see the ground development through to the end. There's been too much chopping and changing at Essex since this project started being muted years ago.
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Thought there was to be a members vote in the autumn regards ground development or relocation after the committee had investigated both alternatives ?