Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: bwildered on May 11, 2014, 05:45:25 PM
-
Prior and Bairstow currently injured, Larry says Fozzy , how is Read performing, Moores recently signed Buttler for Lancs so he must be in the driving seat .
So how about your choice ?
-
Prior and Bairstow currently injured, Larry says Fozzy , how is Read performing, Moores recently signed Buttler for Lancs so he must be in the driving seat .
So how about your choice ?
Bairstow's back playing but no way is he good enough to be a Test wicketkeeper (or batsman)
Read's day has gone.
Buttler's exciting with the bat but is he ready behind the stumps?
For once, I agree with Larry - Fozzie should be given a crack. My 2nd choice would be Tim Ambrose.
-
Although Fossie is still the best 'keeper in England I don't think he'll get back in the England team, he's 34 & although he's got 10k plus career runs most of them are in LVCC2 which might count against him, also as good as he is he won't get any better. I also wonder if there is an agenda at ECB as he doesn't appear to have even been considered for years even though many including some experts acknowledge he is the best, Read is in a similar boat in that he is getting on & where his batting was once seen as a weak link (which it certainly isn't now!!) age also counts against him which is a shame as these 2 are the best in England as 'keepers who can bat rather batsmen who can keep which is what England seem to go for these days.
A bit worrying that once Prior goes we have little as Buttler isn't good enough yet in either skill - good 1 day bat but not yet good enough in 4 day.
-
I suspect that there was an "agenda" about Fozzie, although everyone who might have been involved, at England level, has now moved on. So for a couple of matches, maybe.
Gather Wheater's still injured, otherwise he might well be in contention
-
I suspect that there was an "agenda" about Fozzie, although everyone who might have been involved, at England level, has now moved on. So for a couple of matches, maybe.
Gather Wheater's still injured, otherwise he might well be in contention
Definitely agree about the agenda. Seemingly blotted his copybook in some way about a dozen years ago. At least in the selectors minds.
Didn't make runs when pushed up the order for ECCC but did get a run in 2007 for England and did quite well. We shouldn't forget that he and his family went through a terrible period around 5-6 years ago, which explains why he turned down the ECCC captaincy, hence Swampy got the 'impossible job' instead.
-
Although Fossie is still the best 'keeper in England I don't think he'll get back in the England team, he's 34 & although he's got 10k plus career runs most of them are in LVCC2 which might count against him, also as good as he is he won't get any better. I also wonder if there is an agenda at ECB as he doesn't appear to have even been considered for years even though many including some experts acknowledge he is the best, Read is in a similar boat in that he is getting on & where his batting was once seen as a weak link (which it certainly isn't now!!) age also counts against him which is a shame as these 2 are the best in England as 'keepers who can bat rather batsmen who can keep which is what England seem to go for these days.
A bit worrying that once Prior goes we have little as Buttler isn't good enough yet in either skill - good 1 day bat but not yet good enough in 4 day.
You're probably right although neither Paul Nixon's age (37), nor his predominantly Div 2 playing experience counted against him when he won first of his 20 limited overs caps. Ironically, he was replaced by Prior.
-
A bit worrying that once Prior goes we have little as Buttler isn't good enough yet in either skill - good 1 day bat but not yet good enough in 4 day.
I disagree - Buttler is the future in all forms - has a level head and deserves a chance at test level - he is a keeper who bats rather than the other way round so give him a go - his 100 vs the champions last year live on Sky shows he has more strings to his bow.
-
A bit worrying that once Prior goes we have little as Buttler isn't good enough yet in either skill - good 1 day bat but not yet good enough in 4 day.
I disagree - Buttler is the future in all forms - has a level head and deserves a chance at test level - he is a keeper who bats rather than the other way round so give him a go - his 100 vs the champions last year live on Sky shows he has more strings to his bow.
He's a better batsman than keeper even though his 4 day batting record isn't that great. The fact that Somerset prefered Kieswetter as the keeper when both were in the same side says it all as Kieswetter isnt a great keeper himself. I think Buttler will play is Prior isn't fit.
-
A bit worrying that once Prior goes we have little as Buttler isn't good enough yet in either skill - good 1 day bat but not yet good enough in 4 day.
I disagree - Buttler is the future in all forms - has a level head and deserves a chance at test level - he is a keeper who bats rather than the other way round so give him a go - his 100 vs the champions last year live on Sky shows he has more strings to his bow.
He's a better batsman than keeper even though his 4 day batting record isn't that great. The fact that Somerset prefered Kieswetter as the keeper when both were in the same side says it all as Kieswetter isnt a great keeper himself. I think Buttler will play is Prior isn't fit.
Prior himself has played as a batsman over the years instead of keeping wicket in all forms for Sussex and they've preferred another keeper - that says something as well!!
-
Judging by James Whittaker's comments - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/27397054 - Fozzie doesn't seem to be on their radar. Shame!
-
Fozzie doesn't seem to be on their radar. Shame!
Not for us.
Can you imagine the pitiful scores we'd post without him.
-
Fozzie doesn't seem to be on their radar. Shame!
Not for us.
Can you imagine the pitiful scores we'd post without him.
Fair point but how many catches & stumpings would the alternatives fluff playing for England?
Prior if fit & back to form is fine; Buttler may mature into a test class wicket keeper but Bairstow / Kieswetter are just stoppers.
-
Continuing the 'Foster for England' call in the Daily Mail, Paul Newman who I think is an Essex fan & seems to know a bit re the workings of the Club says that apparently Essex are really keen for Fossie to get an England recall & if necessary when Foakes comes to the end of his contract (2014?) we would risk losing him to retain Fossie behind the stumps, understandable in the short term but we risk losing a 2nd W/K in a couple of years.
-
Continuing the 'Foster for England' call in the Daily Mail, Paul Newman who I think is an Essex fan & seems to know a bit re the workings of the Club says that apparently Essex are really keen for Fossie to get an England recall & if necessary when Foakes comes to the end of his contract (2014?) we would risk losing him to retain Fossie behind the stumps, understandable in the short term but we risk losing a 2nd W/K in a couple of years.
Come on IlfordE clearly the idea is to get Foakes more England opportunities so that he stays for another contract, tiding us over until Fossie retires. Listening to the Lancs vs Middx match the commentators were lamenting how many of their young talent had moved on, especially Middx.
Personally, I feel too many young players have agents who try to move them around too much. Time for more draconian measures e.g. wage caps or shooting agents? The county game has serious money problems, not helped by the national team's decline.
-
It seems likely that Prior's lack of match practice will exclude him from consideration by England for Sri Lanka tests. Whether the new selectors carry any prejudice against Foster is open to question. Certainly, Mick Newell (as quoted on Cricinfo today) seems open minded:
Mick Newell, one of the England selectors, admitted this week that the keeping debate split people into two camps and appeared to suggest that the option of returning to a more pure gloveman, in the James Foster or Chris Read bracket, was not being discounted.
"There are two camps of keeper," Newell said. "There is the Kieswetter, Buttler, Bairstow group and there is the Foster, Read group, more the old-school wicketkeeper. I watched Foster last week and he was terrific. There will be an interesting debate there."
If one was being cynical - perish the thought - Newell might be angling to keep Read at Notts.
-
I was amused by "If there's an opportunity, then I'll be absolutely as keen as mustard,"
If Phil Mustard gets a call up, I assume he'll be as keen as Foster......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/27679446
-
I was amused by "If there's an opportunity, then I'll be absolutely as keen as mustard,"
If Phil Mustard gets a call up, I assume he'll be as keen as Foster......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/27679446
The best post I've seen today, nice one!!
-
It seems likely that Prior's lack of match practice will exclude him from consideration by England for Sri Lanka tests.
Well that worked out!!
-
I think that's it for Fossie & England - if he can't get in with doubts over Prior's fitness & Buttler not apparently being ready then, sadly, I don't think he'll be considered again.Such a shame as he has clearly been England's best keeper for a long time with Read close behind.
-
It seems likely that Prior's lack of match practice will exclude him from consideration by England for Sri Lanka tests.
Well that worked out!!
What do I know?!
There did seem to be some desperation to get Prior back in the team, the comment from James Whitaker gives a clue: "He comes back as just the sort of character we want in that team." This is despite his awful form with the bat - over the last three Test series he's averaged 17; that included 5 x 0's. I hope that he succeeds for England's sake but I'm not very confident.
-
Fozzy's loss is our gain.
We'd be regularly all out for under 150 without him in the side.
-
Fozzy's loss is our gain.
We'd be regularly all out for under 150 without him in the side.
He's the only current ECCC player who would have got a regular place in the late 1970's/1980's team with the possible exception of Masters who probably would have lost out to Stuart Turner on the basis of the aforementioned's batting prowess.
-
Fozzy's loss is our gain.
We'd be regularly all out for under 150 without him in the side.
He's the only current ECCC player who would have got a regular place in the late 1970's/1980's team with the possible exception of Masters who probably would have lost out to Stuart Turner on the basis of the aforementioned's batting prowess.
Well I know you'll disagree but RTD would also have got in...certainly ahead of Keith Pont and possibly one or two others. Ravi instead of Brian Hardie?
-
Well I know you'll disagree but RTD would also have got in...certainly ahead of Keith Pont and possibly one or two others. Ravi instead of Brian Hardie?
If I remember correctly, Keith Pont didn't automatically retain a regular position. For consistency and performance, I'd rather have half a memory of Brian Hardie than a million Boparas.
One also has to take into account that the CC wasn't partitioned in those days and the playing standards were far higher. For instance, instead of facing current div. 2 bowling, how long would Tendoeschate and Bopara have lasted against the likes of Marshall, Garner, Walsh, Roberts, Imran Khan, Walsh, Rice, Hadlee, Donald et al, not long, not long at all.
Its very difficult to make comparisons between the two eras due to the unavailability of top class players and the deterioration of the first class game in general. I suppose the closest one could get would be comparing a Ferrari Spider with a Ford Fiesta, or a Patek Philippe grand complication wristwatch with a Seiko Quartz model.
-
Well I know you'll disagree but RTD would also have got in...certainly ahead of Keith Pont and possibly one or two others. Ravi instead of Brian Hardie?
If I remember correctly, Keith Pont didn't automatically retain a regular position. For consistency and performance, I'd rather have half a memory of Brian Hardie than a million Boparas.
One also has to take into account that the CC wasn't partitioned in those days and the playing standards were far higher. For instance, instead of facing current div. 2 bowling, how long would Tendoeschate and Bopara have lasted against the likes of Marshall, Garner, Walsh, Roberts, Imran Khan, Walsh, Rice, Hadlee, Donald et al, not long, not long at all.
Its very difficult to make comparisons between the two eras due to the unavailability of top class players and the deterioration of the first class game in general. I suppose the closest one could get would be comparing a Ferrari Spider with a Ford Fiesta, or a Patek Philippe grand complication wristwatch with a Seiko Quartz model.
I think you have a slightly jaundiced view of modern players which does you little credit. Yes there is a lack of top quality players regularly playing in the CC/T20 etc. However I think there has been a general levelling up of player quality so that there few really poor players playing county cricket today.
Anyone remember Jim Foat of Gloucestershire? Just one example of a really poor county player. Or Bob Cooke of Essex? or George Sharp or Arnold Long? The list goes on.
-
However I think there has been a general levelling up of player quality so that there few really poor players playing county cricket today.
Wot!! even your all time favourite, Sajit Mahmood??
-
However I think there has been a general levelling up of player quality so that there few really poor players playing county cricket today.
Wot!! even your all time favourite, Sajit Mahmood??
he is the exception that proves the rule.
-
Nat, not sure we can say the likes of Cooke were that bad, the game was different back in the 1970s - after all David shepherd (not the Bishop of Liverpool) wouldn't be allowed in the modern game but were perfectly equipped to sustain county careers.
-
I think if people on here call for players like Mickleburgh, Smith and Westley, to be dropped, if we zoomed back in time, Essex regulars like Gordon Barker, Micky Bear, and Graham Saville would be in the firing line.
-
I think if people on here call for players like Mickleburgh, Smith and Westley, to be dropped, if we zoomed back in time, Essex regulars like Gordon Barker, Micky Bear, and Graham Saville would be in the firing line.
You should remember that when Barker, Bear and Saville played Essex were poor, bordering on very poor.
-
I think if people on here call for players like Mickleburgh, Smith and Westley, to be dropped, if we zoomed back in time, Essex regulars like Gordon Barker, Micky Bear, and Graham Saville would be in the firing line.
You should remember that when Barker, Bear and Saville played Essex were poor, bordering on very poor.
Whoa Nellie, these weren't bad players that their averages would suggest. Well, maybe not Saville.
I remember KWR Fletcher (another averaging in the 30s!) said that playing on out grounds on uncovered wickets knocked at least 5 runs off the batting averages. We got spoiled in the 80s by having GG, McKewen plus numerous O/S batters averaging in the 40s on covered wickets.
-
Brian Hardie blossomed as a player gradually & was a perfect foil to GG, also a superb close fielder & had a tremendous attitude & team ethic, going even further back Barker was a stalwart for years who did fall away badly in his last couple of years, Bear was average & a superb fielder, Savile was so so & a fine slip fielder, our great side of the 70s/80s was a team in all senses never gave up & all pulled for each other under a superb Captain.
-
You should remember that when Barker, Bear and Saville played Essex were poor, bordering on very poor.
Barker and Dodds formed a very good opening partnership. you'd like to see their equivalent today. Saville and Bear were pretty much on the lines of Westley, Mickleburg, Pettini, although the latter was an excellent fielder.
In the 1950's, ECCC's position in the CC averaged between 5th and 8th when the oppositions were far stronger than today. I can remember Freddie Trueman steaming in at Colchester and almost the entire England team playing for Surrey at Clacton.
-
Further to that 1950's Surrey team playing at Clacton, they set us a generous total of around 250 on the last day which we achieved with a good knock from Doug Insole and I think a bit of a contribution from a young Micky Bear and a Braintree lad by the name of Geoff Smith.
The Surrey team consisted of Constable, Stewart, Barrington, May, Alec and Eric Bedser, Lock, Laker, Loader, Surridge, Macintyre. No resting of players in those days despite the aforementioned having already comprehensively won the CC. Little wonder why the crowds flocked to these games back in the golden era of cricket.
-
.... Little wonder why the crowds flocked to these games back in the golden era of cricket.
It might also have had something to do with the fact that there was b****r all else to do!
Let's scroll forward from the misty-eyed days of the 1950s to the 1960s/early 1970s when things *were* at a low ebb.