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Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: Oldhasbeen on October 04, 2021, 10:58:31 AM

Title: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Oldhasbeen on October 04, 2021, 10:58:31 AM
The big question. I think it's 60:40 against, the Australian states' individual Covid rules will make it very, very difficult to do a half-decent tour. (An Aussie friend has given me the lowdown of just how hard it is to cross state lines down under at the moment)

And if it does go ahead, I'll be surprised if at least 4 or 5 players decline to go. Joss Buttler for a start.

Any thoughts, fellow Essex Men (and ladies)?
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Andy on October 04, 2021, 11:38:18 AM
Difficult political decision. We've been hosting series over the past two summers, yet pulled out of overseas tours - then got upset with the Indian team withdrawing from the 5th Test.

Personally I think the ACB has made a mistake in scheduling the tests across five venues. In effect, whilst I don't critise the zero covid policy of their government it does mean that crossing internal borders is tricky.

The apparent changes to rules for vaccinated people might be helpful, but I guess they will go into lockdowns again.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: dazedpenguin on October 04, 2021, 12:11:46 PM
My guess: it will go ahead because it's too important to be cancelled. I don't think it will be played in all states though. Geoff Lemon, being an Aussie journalist, is better placed than most to know what's going on and his view is that Perth will go and they'll go for Hobart or Canberra instead.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/oct/02/australias-confusing-covid-rules-shroud-ashes-in-uncertainty. (edited to add correct link).

Now the ECB have come out and said that they "must select a squad befitting a series of this significance". I think that's putting pressure on Cricket Australia and the Australian government (and states). No way can the Ashes be cancelled and it will be failure of leadership from the ECB and CA if it is. There is too much money and reputation on this, so they will find a way, even if it's playing multiple tests at the same venues.

And if Root doesn't go, that has to be it for his captaincy. It's tough, but the captain can't get to pick and choose.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: nat on October 04, 2021, 12:23:04 PM
it won't happen. Postponed until 2022-3.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Oldhasbeen on October 04, 2021, 12:33:23 PM
My guess: it will go ahead because it's too important to be cancelled. I don't think it will be played in all states though. Geoff Lemon, being an Aussie journalist, is better placed than most to know what's going on and his view is that Perth will go and they'll go for Hobart or Canberra instead.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/oct/02/australias-confusing-covid-rules-shroud-ashes-in-uncertainty. (edited to add correct link).

Now the ECB have come out and said that they "must select a squad befitting a series of this significance". I think that's putting pressure on Cricket Australia and the Australian government (and states). No way can the Ashes be cancelled and it will be failure of leadership from the ECB and CA if it is. There is too much money and reputation on this, so they will find a way, even if it's playing multiple tests at the same venues.

And if Root doesn't go, that has to be it for his captaincy. It's tough, but the captain can't get to pick and choose.
Good Grauniad article, DP. Well worth reading
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Shenfield Eagle on October 04, 2021, 02:21:44 PM
Money talks, it will go ahead in some format.

The youngsters in the u21 without wives or families will be drafted into the test squad to make it happen
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: nat on October 04, 2021, 02:36:48 PM
Money talks, it will go ahead in some format.

The youngsters in the u21 without wives or families will be drafted into the test squad to make it happen
I fear you are right.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Andy on October 04, 2021, 03:47:49 PM
it won't happen. Postponed until 2022-3.

When in 2022/23?  We play almost continuously throughout the year.

I suspect Geoff Lemon is close to the answer - think very carefully as to which States host and when.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: SirChef26 on October 04, 2021, 11:58:34 PM
It will definitely happen because Cricket Australia can't afford for it not to. Even if it means staging every test in the same state. England won't have any problems fielding a squad because all those players on the periphery of selection including our own Mr Lawrence will be more than happy to jump on the plane and take advantage of any senior players pulling out. It's no surprise that Pope has already gone public on his availability. Expect the likes of Hameed, Crawley, Sibley etc to follow suit.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Oldhasbeen on October 05, 2021, 06:57:33 AM
After hearing an Aussie journalist on the beeb yesterday,  I think the tour will probably go ahead. The financial impact of cancellation and the great difficulty of rescheduling the tour will make it happen, but in what form and with which players is anyone's guess
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: bwildered on October 05, 2021, 07:59:34 AM
Can see it going ahead, but could finish like the recent India home series !
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: afinetickletoleg on October 05, 2021, 08:42:34 AM
Can see it going ahead, but could finish like the recent India home series !

Is there another IPL scheduled to start immediately after the final test then?
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: bwildered on October 06, 2021, 07:35:44 AM
Could become a Kerry Packer situation, with two England sides, but this time the did goes and no goes.
With the India fifth test result still to be confirmed by ICC, my Baldrick cunning  plan is, we could win the first test then pull out, then would qualify has Ashes success and reclaim . It would save the hiding that becomth.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Oldhasbeen on October 11, 2021, 12:43:12 PM
Well, we are going. And I'm astonished that none of the senior players have pulled out.

I have some sympathy with Spoons in selecting a squad, with matchwinners like Stokes & Archer unavailable, other injuries (Stone & S Curran) and a county system which is no longer geared up to producing Test players.
Having said that, I'm surprised at the conservatism of the selections.  I was quite shocked to see Dom Bess selected and Ben Foakes omitted, and very disappointed that Saqib Mahmood and Matt Parkinson weren't in the squad.
IMHO Bairstow has had his day at Test level. Woakes record in Australia is poor, although in the absence of our other all-rounders, Moeen and Stokes, and the high probability that Anderson and/or Broad will break down at some point,  I can understand why he's been selected. Craig Overton is similar to Ollie Robinson, and not as good.

10-1 against us winning the series for me. 

 
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: LeedsExile on October 11, 2021, 12:55:12 PM
I agree with all your points old has been. A very unimaginative squad that reveals how bare the domestic cupboard is. I read that Vince was unlucky not to be selected. If we are reduced to going back to players who have previously failed things are bleak.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: dazedpenguin on October 11, 2021, 03:07:51 PM
I think Parkinson, Mahmood, Carse, (maybe Sam Cook ?) and Vince will be in the Lions squad that travels at the same time as the main squad. I read that the plan is to pursue "supreme accuracy" in the absence of Archer and Stone. The problem is that the Aussies also have supreme accuracy, but they also have pace. I think Wood will do well on Australian pitches, but it's very unlikely he'll make it through 5 tests.

I suspect they might pack the batting and just play 4 seamers with no spinner. Utterly depressing.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: honkytonk on October 11, 2021, 03:18:25 PM
Id take Garton in the Lions squad. Think he could do well for England
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: dazedpenguin on October 11, 2021, 03:27:11 PM
I'm surprised he didn't get in the T20 squad ahead of Tom Curran. If he's fit enough for red ball cricket then he's a great prospect.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: JasonP on October 11, 2021, 03:32:35 PM
I think Parkinson, Mahmood, Carse, (maybe Sam Cook ?) and Vince will be in the Lions squad that travels at the same time as the main squad. I read that the plan is to pursue "supreme accuracy" in the absence of Archer and Stone. The problem is that the Aussies also have supreme accuracy, but they also have pace. I think Wood will do well on Australian pitches, but it's very unlikely he'll make it through 5 tests.

I suspect they might pack the batting and just play 4 seamers with no spinner. Utterly depressing.

Is there any point picking a spinner?  We don’t have one that will trouble the Aussies over there at all.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: nat on October 11, 2021, 03:53:21 PM
I think Parkinson, Mahmood, Carse, (maybe Sam Cook ?) and Vince will be in the Lions squad that travels at the same time as the main squad. I read that the plan is to pursue "supreme accuracy" in the absence of Archer and Stone. The problem is that the Aussies also have supreme accuracy, but they also have pace. I think Wood will do well on Australian pitches, but it's very unlikely he'll make it through 5 tests.

I suspect they might pack the batting and just play 4 seamers with no spinner. Utterly depressing.

Is there any point picking a spinner?  We don’t have one that will trouble the Aussies over there at all.

We do but they haven't picked him. Parkinson.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: SirChef26 on October 11, 2021, 04:03:35 PM
Agreed, Parkinson is our best.
 
Lawrence is lucky, no chance he would have made it in if Ben Stokes or Sam Curran was fit. At least he'll be able to utilise all those drinks carrying methods he learned over the summer.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: honkytonk on October 11, 2021, 04:23:27 PM
There will also be a few English players n the BBL in Aus. So they will be out there already.  I know Mahmood is signed up already
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: kingstonj1 on October 12, 2021, 04:21:28 PM
Parkinson bowls far too slowly for Aussie wickets and would get hammered. If a leg spinner must be shoehorned in Crane is the best leggie for the conditions.

The offies are much of a muchness.

Bess is stealing a living as test player!
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Andy on October 12, 2021, 06:28:56 PM
As our esteemed Home Secretary lives in the County she could fast track Harmer's citizenship?
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: nat on October 12, 2021, 08:18:23 PM
As our esteemed Home Secretary lives in the County she could fast track Harmer's citizenship?

Would be quicker for SH to change his name to Mohammed, buy a dingy in France, sail it to Dover and claim asylum. Be in the England team within the week.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Oldhasbeen on October 13, 2021, 10:21:46 AM
Parkinson bowls far too slowly for Aussie wickets and would get hammered. If a leg spinner must be shoehorned in Crane is the best leggie for the conditions.

The offies are much of a muchness.

Bess is stealing a living as test player!
Whichever spinners we pick, I doubt if they will get much of a look-in.
Unless we get a "Brisbane sticky" or similar, or we haven't got 4 fit seamers, I expect us to play 4 seamers. With the likelihood of one or more of Anderson, Broad and Wood breaking down mid-match, it would be a hell of a risk to do otherwise.

So our apology for a spin attack will be the Joe & Dan show. Maybe Malan's leggies if we're REALLY desperate

Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Andy on October 13, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
As our esteemed Home Secretary lives in the County she could fast track Harmer's citizenship?

Would be quicker for SH to change his name to Mohammed, buy a dingy in France, sail it to Dover and claim asylum. Be in the England team within the week.

Still reading The Daily “Angry Boomer” Expr*ss, Nat?  I’ll ask me mum to pop next door…
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: dazedpenguin on October 14, 2021, 01:14:19 PM
Parkinson, Carse, Mahmood and Crane in the Lions squad announced today. Disappointed that Sam Cook didn't get a place, but they've gone for Liam Norwell and Matthew Fisher instead.

Abell, Bohannon, Bracey, Carse, Crane,  Fisher, Foakes, Lees, Mahmood, Norwell, Parkinson, Sibley, Jamie Smith, Yates.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: nat on October 14, 2021, 01:25:48 PM
Parkinson, Carse, Mahmood and Crane in the Lions squad announced today. Disappointed that Sam Cook didn't get a place, but they've gone for Liam Norwell and Matthew Fisher instead.

Abell, Bohannon, Bracey, Carse, Crane,  Fisher, Foakes, Lees, Mahmood, Norwell, Parkinson, Sibley, Jamie Smith, Yates.
Still obsessed with pace. Fisher will go lame...and Carse... my *rse
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Oldhasbeen on October 14, 2021, 02:29:36 PM
Parkinson, Carse, Mahmood and Crane in the Lions squad announced today. Disappointed that Sam Cook didn't get a place, but they've gone for Liam Norwell and Matthew Fisher instead.

Abell, Bohannon, Bracey, Carse, Crane,  Fisher, Foakes, Lees, Mahmood, Norwell, Parkinson, Sibley, Jamie Smith, Yates.

Disappointed Little Chef didn't get in, IMHO he's got more chance of maturing into a good Test bowler than Liam Norwell. (I can't recall seeing Matt Fisher for a fair while.) Surprised Liam Livingstone has been omitted, and Tom Abell & Alex Lees selected. Pleased to see Brydon Carse & Saqib Mahmood picked - they both bowled very well in the ODIs; Carse should get some decent bounce on the Aussie wickets & looks a useful number 8 as well. They must both stand a decent chance of being drafted into the Test team given the high probability of at least one of our Test seamers breaking down.

Whether Crane or Parkinson does better will be interesting. I back the latter

I wonder what Foakes will be feeling as he sees two far inferior wicketkeepers, neither of whom have been great with the bat in the last few years, playing for the Test team while he's in the stiffs. 

BTW, good article at https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-rob-yates-liam-norwell-josh-bohannon-named-in-england-lions-squad-1283054
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: dazedpenguin on October 14, 2021, 02:39:38 PM
Livingstone wanted to take a rest, so he's going home after playing the World Cup and T10s.

I would hope that Foakes stays on with the main squad when the Lions fly home. Given the usual calamities that seem to happen on Ashes tours, he's got a good chance of playing, although knowing the selectors they'd go for Burns, Bracey or Smith instead.

And Cook is a far better bowler than Norwell. What a travesty of selection that is.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Oldhasbeen on October 14, 2021, 03:59:18 PM
Livingstone wanted to take a rest, so he's going home after playing the World Cup and T10s.

I would hope that Foakes stays on with the main squad when the Lions fly home. Given the usual calamities that seem to happen on Ashes tours, he's got a good chance of playing, although knowing the selectors they'd go for Burns, Bracey or Smith instead.

And Cook is a far better bowler than Norwell. What a travesty of selection that is.

And Little Chef's a lot younger & has a better fitness record than Norwell

Re LL, form the CricInfo article I cited:

'Liam Livingstone was overlooked because of the red-ball focus of the tour, according to Mo Bobat, the ECB's performance director.

"From a red-ball perspective, put simply, it felt like there were other players ahead of him right now,"'
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: nat on October 14, 2021, 04:16:01 PM
Livingstone is (another) flat track bully. Not got the appetite for proper cricket.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: bobw on October 14, 2021, 07:09:24 PM
At least Little Chef avoids the debacle that is call England Fast Bowler coaching.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: nat on October 14, 2021, 08:00:17 PM
At least Little Chef avoids the debacle that is call England Fast Bowler coaching.

Is NoPaint or Kevin Shine involved?!
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Oldhasbeen on October 14, 2021, 08:28:56 PM
At least Little Chef avoids the debacle that is call England Fast Bowler coaching.
Since we don't know who the England Lions coaches will be, is that  not  something of a premature judgement?
Who knows, they might even call Nat?
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: nat on October 14, 2021, 08:48:28 PM
At least Little Chef avoids the debacle that is call England Fast Bowler coaching.
Since we don't know who the England Lions coaches will be, is that  not  something of a premature judgement?
Who knows, they might even call Nat?

I'm still self-isolating. Remote coaching only from my private island.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: honkytonk on October 15, 2021, 01:00:21 PM
Livingstone is (another) flat track bully. Not got the appetite for proper cricket.

Or would rather earn more playing white ball cricket. I think he is a good player
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Andy on October 15, 2021, 08:59:57 PM
At least Little Chef avoids the debacle that is call England Fast Bowler coaching.
Since we don't know who the England Lions coaches will be, is that  not  something of a premature judgement?
Who knows, they might even call Nat?

I'm still self-isolating. Remote coaching only from my private island.

You own the WHOLE of Canvey?
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Oldhasbeen on October 25, 2021, 11:44:39 AM
At last some good news - Ben Stokes is going.

Probably not good news for Dan but very good news for all other Brits, especially Jack Leach, who at least might get a game or 2 now. (PLEASE don't play Bess, he'll get marmalised!!)
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: bwildered on November 29, 2021, 06:01:47 PM
Will the tour go ahead ?
Strange that tour games are now not against State sides, but the Lions. Imperative that we start well, against are own Lions,  when it stops raining, is not the best possible start. Hope I am correct.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Andy on November 30, 2021, 01:29:29 PM
Where will the matches be played?  Clearly trying to replicate the usual variety of venues isn’t going to work. Having blocks of two or three together in the same venue would make more sense.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: dazedpenguin on November 30, 2021, 01:44:15 PM
The last test at Perth is looking unlikely to go ahead, but I think it's the MCG that are offering to host as an alternative- and it could be a Day/Night test. Brisbane, Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney are all supposed to be going ahead.

The Australia A vs Lions match is also scheduled to be in Brisbane. After that some of the Lions will return home, with some presumably moved to the main squad.
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: Andy on November 30, 2021, 04:29:00 PM
Can we quarantine the likes of Warner, Smith, etc. For a couple of months or so?
Title: Re: Will the Australia Tour go ahead?
Post by: bwildered on November 30, 2021, 05:08:44 PM
 One up and one to play, cannot forever think the Aussies will let us just get on the next charter flight home, they will find some host no doubt , even if on the top of Ayers Rock .