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Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: Bath Hammer on January 04, 2020, 09:24:26 AM

Title: South Africa test series
Post by: Bath Hammer on January 04, 2020, 09:24:26 AM
Yet another dismal batting performance from England with the exception of Ollie Pope. This must be about the worst batting line up that England have put out. This SA bowling attack is being described as world class but that’s being said about every team we play now as we make them look that way & our attack is ineffective by comparison because none of them can bowl 6 accurate balls in a row!
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Bath Hammer on January 04, 2020, 10:42:48 AM
At last a decent effort by our bowlers but it’s taken a long time to arrive & too early to start heaping praise on all concerned.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: nat on January 04, 2020, 05:24:32 PM
Agree about our bowlers. Time to drop Broad who, despite the odd good spell, is past it and is a disruptive influence.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: IlfordEagle on January 04, 2020, 09:06:39 PM
Pope will prove to be a very fine player. Alec Stewart speaks very highly of him, which is natural as he has seen him up through the ranks at Surrey, but he is a natural &  always looks very good  when I watch him.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: bwildered on January 05, 2020, 10:16:09 AM
Similiar play alikes , Pope and Ian Bell , Crawley and Will Jefferson and Sibley a uglier version of Westly .
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Stringbok on January 05, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Slightly off topic but for those of you that have paid the Sky Shilling (guilty as charged) what do you think of KP’s commentary.  I think he is trying too hard and perhaps talking too much. But I think it’s something he will grow into. Pleasantly surprised.

I assume he’s there as the coverage is being shared with SA TV and Sky aren’t lining him up as part of their team.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: nat on January 05, 2020, 01:33:39 PM
Slightly off topic but for those of you that have paid the Sky Shilling (guilty as charged) what do you think of KP’s commentary.  I think he is trying too hard and perhaps talking too much. But I think it’s something he will grow into. Pleasantly surprised.

I assume he’s there as the coverage is being shared with SA TV and Sky aren’t lining him up as part of their team.
A typical boer/bore.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: bwildered on January 05, 2020, 07:10:25 PM
Yes notice they also have a Africaans  commentary team.
KP - Much better served saving the rhino .
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: IlfordEagle on January 05, 2020, 07:56:49 PM
England have a decent chance of victory if they can get another 50/75 tomorrow, pleased to see Sibley getting much needed runs& helping his case for a regular place, we need one more player to get 40/50 in support & then get our bowlers to work , a much better effort by the batsmen today.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Andy on January 05, 2020, 07:58:13 PM
Yes notice they also have a Africaans  commentary team.
KP - Much better served saving the rhino .

'I've never met a nice South African...'
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Bath Hammer on January 06, 2020, 07:43:59 AM
Yes notice they also have a Africaans  commentary team.
KP - Much better served saving the rhino .

'I've never met a nice South African...'

Wow, I’ve heard it all  ::) ::)
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: LeedsExile on January 06, 2020, 11:03:26 AM
Ken McEwan was a brilliant chap according to all sources that I have ever seen.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: essexfan548 on January 06, 2020, 11:32:51 AM
'I've never met a nice South African...'

Really? You must have been very unlucky. I have a few South African friends and we've had/have some great players from there.

Ken McEwan was a gent and I've always found Tendo and Harmer very friendly.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Daren Mootoo on January 06, 2020, 11:56:10 AM
Yes notice they also have a Africaans  commentary team.
KP - Much better served saving the rhino .

'I've never met a nice South African...'

I guess most on here are far too young to remember "Spitting Image"!
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Slogger on January 06, 2020, 01:16:44 PM
'I've never met a nice South African...'

Really? You must have been very unlucky. I have a few South African friends and we've had/have some great players from there.

Ken McEwan was a gent and I've always found Tendo and Harmer very friendly.

I only spoke to Ken once, at a pre season game at Halstead in the mid 1970s. A lovely bloke. He took the time to speak to me and my mate and encouraged us to keep playing and supporting the game.

As a footnote, ex Colchester Utd centre forward Martyn King played for Halstead in that era. He was a hard hitting opener. He sadly died on Christmas day. Still Colchester's record goal scorer and my maths teacher. I suspect the latter attribute was more of a challenge!
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: essexfan548 on January 06, 2020, 02:23:22 PM
Yes notice they also have a Africaans  commentary team.
KP - Much better served saving the rhino .

'I've never met a nice South African...'

I guess most on here are far too young to remember "Spitting Image"!

Yes - I'm sure most do but was it really a reference to that song?
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: nat on January 06, 2020, 02:45:35 PM
Yes notice they also have a Africaans  commentary team.
KP - Much better served saving the rhino .

'I've never met a nice South African...'

I guess most on here are far too young to remember "Spitting Image"!

Yes - I'm sure most do but was it really a reference to that song?
Yes (sigh).
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Andy on January 06, 2020, 02:55:12 PM
Yes notice they also have a Africaans  commentary team.
KP - Much better served saving the rhino .

'I've never met a nice South African...'

I guess most on here are far too young to remember "Spitting Image"!

Yes - I'm sure most do but was it really a reference to that song?
Yes (sigh).

Ah, Nat. Only joking - I have myself met plenty/some/a couple of nice Saffers. 

Also, bear in mind that my original idea for a 'witty' comment involved Rhino horn.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: bwildered on January 06, 2020, 05:59:05 PM
 Also only spoke to Ken once . He had gone to retrieve the ball from the boundary . Told him the ball was over there, pointing to the other side of the nearby covers, which his reply was " Gee , thanks ."

 Suggest Martyn King will remain the U's leading goal scorer, particularly if you show goal  scoring attributes, larger club come calling quicker these days .
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: IlfordEagle on January 06, 2020, 10:36:04 PM
I'd echo that about Ken McEwan, I spoke similarly to him when he fielded on the boundary, always seemed a nice guy, great player too, I believe our best ever Overseas & a wonderful batsman to watch - lucky enough to see a lot of his Essex career.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Andy on January 07, 2020, 01:04:28 PM
I'd echo that about Ken McEwan, I spoke similarly to him when he fielded on the boundary, always seemed a nice guy, great player too, I believe our best ever Overseas & a wonderful batsman to watch - lucky enough to see a lot of his Essex career.

Yes. Quiet bloke who was the 'audience' for the more vociferous characters in the ECCC team. 

Real loss to the international game - at least the Pollock's and Richards' were able to demonstrate their power in (some) 'proper' Test matches during their prime.

I saw him in his last Sunday League game when we beat Yorkshire for the title.  Very moving.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: paulcm on January 07, 2020, 01:17:11 PM
Also only spoke to Ken once . He had gone to retrieve the ball from the boundary . Told him the ball was over there, pointing to the other side of the nearby covers, which his reply was " Gee , thanks ."

 Suggest Martyn King will remain the U's leading goal scorer, particularly if you show goal  scoring attributes, larger club come calling quicker these days .

I don’t think King’s (I remember him well!)record is in any danger— certainly not if you are persisting with the likes of Theo Robinson up front
. Mind you, not sure if you can include Luke Plodder and his ever-increasing  tally of own goals .
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: nat on January 07, 2020, 01:59:55 PM
I'd echo that about Ken McEwan, I spoke similarly to him when he fielded on the boundary, always seemed a nice guy, great player too, I believe our best ever Overseas & a wonderful batsman to watch - lucky enough to see a lot of his Essex career.

Yes. Quiet bloke who was the 'audience' for the more vociferous characters in the ECCC team. 

Real loss to the international game - at least the Pollock's and Richards' were able to demonstrate their power in (some) 'proper' Test matches during their prime.

I saw him in his last Sunday League game when we beat Yorkshire for the title.  Very moving.
Yep i was there too.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: bwildered on January 07, 2020, 03:45:40 PM
Superb leveller by England on the FIFTH day. Test match cricket at it's best .
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Andy on January 07, 2020, 03:53:41 PM
Yes. Quiet bloke who was the 'audience' for the more vociferous characters in the ECCC team. 

Real loss to the international game - at least the Pollock's and Richards' were able to demonstrate their power in (some) 'proper' Test matches during their prime.

I saw him in his last Sunday League game when we beat Yorkshire for the title.  Very moving.
Yep i was there too.

Were you anywhere near that lad who had an epileptic fit when Ken McEwan was out?  Or when the crowd started singing Geoffrey Boycott for England?
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: nat on January 07, 2020, 05:01:33 PM
Yes. Quiet bloke who was the 'audience' for the more vociferous characters in the ECCC team. 

Real loss to the international game - at least the Pollock's and Richards' were able to demonstrate their power in (some) 'proper' Test matches during their prime.

I saw him in his last Sunday League game when we beat Yorkshire for the title.  Very moving.
Yep i was there too.

Were you anywhere near that lad who had an epileptic fit when Ken McEwan was out?  Or when the crowd started singing Geoffrey Boycott for England?
I can't say I was. You paint a very colourful picture of the crowd. All i can remember is Kenny Mac getting a standing ovation when he walked out to bat and he simply doffed his cap to all parts of the ground in response. Classy to the end.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Andy on January 07, 2020, 05:35:05 PM
Were you anywhere near that lad who had an epileptic fit when Ken McEwan was out?  Or when the crowd started singing Geoffrey Boycott for England?
I can't say I was. You paint a very colourful picture of the crowd. All i can remember is Kenny Mac getting a standing ovation when he walked out to bat and he simply doffed his cap to all parts of the ground in response. Classy to the end.

It is always more colourful in the cheap seats.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: essexfan548 on January 07, 2020, 05:35:29 PM
My memories are him hitting an enormous 6 out of the old ground at Hastings into South Terrace [the road on the north of the ground].  It was a televised JPL match, Kenny got a 100 but we lost ... I have this on video tape somewhere.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Slogger on January 07, 2020, 05:56:30 PM
My memories are him hitting an enormous 6 out of the old ground at Hastings into South Terrace [the road on the north of the ground].  It was a televised JPL match, Kenny got a 100 but we lost ... I have this on video tape somewhere.

Crikey - I remember that Hastings game! He also got a 100 against Middlesex at Chelmsford in the JPL in 1981 - a classy hundred in a tight but crucial run chase with some sixes at the end.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: IlfordEagle on January 07, 2020, 05:59:23 PM
A great win by England today & the argument for 5 day Tests was greatly strengthened today. Alec Stewart , who I have a lot of time for, has come out strongly in favour of 5 day Tests continuing, good for him, just think this finish today wouldn't have happened under new proposals.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: essexfan548 on January 07, 2020, 06:06:16 PM
My memories are him hitting an enormous 6 out of the old ground at Hastings into South Terrace [the road on the north of the ground].  It was a televised JPL match, Kenny got a 100 but we lost ... I have this on video tape somewhere.

Crikey - I remember that Hastings game! He also got a 100 against Middlesex at Chelmsford in the JPL in 1981 - a classy hundred in a tight but crucial run chase with some sixes at the end.

I was there as I lived locally at the time :)
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Andy on January 07, 2020, 06:06:37 PM
A great win by England today & the argument for 5 day Tests was greatly strengthened today. Alec Stewart , who I have a lot of time for, has come out strongly in favour of 5 day Tests continuing, good for him, just think this finish today wouldn't have happened under new proposals.

TBH I suspect that this 4-day idea was a ruse to justify having countries clearly not able to play 'proper' Test cricket especially those struggling to generate enough interest from sponsors or broadcasters - as happened recently.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: bwildered on January 20, 2020, 11:47:17 AM
Good win for England , to go two one up with one to play, so now cannot lose the series . Contributions from Sibley, Crawley, Pope , Curran and Bess bode well for the future .
Blotted there copybook though by bowling rubbish for the last wicket . Capt Root bowled three/ four overs to many in search for a five wicket haul and Wood bowled fast, but not in the right places.
Although not selected , Foakes behind the stumps and leave Buttler for the white ball stuff please Mr Silverwood ..
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Andy on January 20, 2020, 02:38:44 PM
Good win for England , to go two one up with one to play, so now cannot lose the series . Contributions from Sibley, Crawley, Pope , Curran and Bess bode well for the future .
Blotted there copybook though by bowling rubbish for the last wicket . Capt Root bowled three/ four overs to many in search for a five wicket haul and Wood bowled fast, but not in the right places.
Although not selected , Foakes behind the stumps and leave Buttler for the white ball stuff please Mr Silverwood ..

Yep.  Foakes ought to be tried out - whilst this is a poor Saffer side, it is sometimes useful to bed in youngsters against weaker opposition.  Whilst they don't help themselves by clearing off to T20 franchises, I think there's a need to rest the core players who have looked out of sorts this winter.  Buttler et al could benefit by specialising on white ball, whilst Root just needs a vacation. 
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: LeedsExile on January 20, 2020, 03:18:19 PM
Quite, they need a rest. That is why they will soon be off to Sri Lanka for another meaningless series. Three tours in one winter is unnecessary and I for one have hardly bothered to follow any of it.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Andy on January 20, 2020, 06:27:54 PM
Quite, they need a rest. That is why they will soon be off to Sri Lanka for another meaningless series. Three tours in one winter is unnecessary and I for one have hardly bothered to follow any of it.

To be fair, there's often been multiple series (or mini-series) ever since England teams sailed instead of flew.  However, it made more sense when we used to stop off in New Zealand after an Ashes series or Sri Lanka after India. Now it's just random: "it's Thursday, so it must be Chennai or Wellington".
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: jwb2 on January 20, 2020, 07:01:22 PM
Sailed instead of flew? Senior moment?
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Andy on January 20, 2020, 08:28:59 PM
Sailed instead of flew? Senior moment?

Eh? If you're going to be pedantic, it was "ever since" that was the problem in that sentence. 

You try writing coherently after marking assignments with virtually no punctuation.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: jwb2 on January 20, 2020, 09:01:24 PM
Well that told me.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: bobw on January 20, 2020, 09:23:32 PM
Am I being premature, or is the England team starting to look like a test team rather than white ball players playing at test cricket?
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: nat on January 20, 2020, 10:06:16 PM
Am I being premature, or is the England team starting to look like a test team rather than white ball players playing at test cricket?

Still miles behind Aus, India...even NZ. Of course the hype will begin again. 
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: IlfordEagle on January 20, 2020, 10:10:00 PM
Very promising looking team now, bodes well for the future, Pope looks set to become a fixture for years, some good performances from other youngsters & newbies.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Bath Hammer on January 21, 2020, 12:32:10 AM
They have made some great strides during this tour. They have bedded in a number of youngsters who seem to have a much better attitude which may be something to do with Silverwood. It is too early to be sure whether any or all of them are destined for a successful career but we look a lot better off than after the first test. It isn’t relevant whether we aren’t better than Australia, India & New Zealand. I was thinking we would pick up the wooden spoon but I’m now far more optimistic for the future.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Bath Hammer on January 21, 2020, 07:24:23 AM
I have to say, though, that I am concerned about the way Root handles fast bowlers. In the cases of both Archer & Wood he has over bowled them & got them to bowl short for long periods. As well as being ineffective this is physically demanding. Archer has gone lame & Wood is cricket”# Andy Carroll so needs careful handling.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: bobw on January 21, 2020, 10:10:23 AM
Am I being premature, or is the England team starting to look like a test team rather than white ball players playing at test cricket?

Still miles behind Aus, India...even NZ. Of course the hype will begin again.

I was not saying we are world beaters. Just that after years of chasing the white ball gold, we now seam to be forming an attitude that is needed for test cricket. Hopefully winning the 50 over world cup has now put the white ball fixation to bed for a few years and we can consentrate on real cricket.

I agree we need a better captain. But how do you learn captaincy and hold down a central contract at the same time? Nobody gets county experience as they do not play CC any more. No county would not appoint an central contract player as captain as they would never play. So we are left with the selecting a captain from the players rather than selecting a captain and then the team.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Andy on January 21, 2020, 11:07:03 AM
Well that told me.

No worries jwb2. Fried brain syndrome on my part.  I nearly wrote "the quality of referencing needs improving" Pavlov's dog, eh?
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: jwb2 on January 21, 2020, 11:16:34 AM
Perhaps you should make them write a paper on why Ben Foakes should be the England wicketkeeper.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Slogger on January 21, 2020, 11:40:41 AM
Perhaps you should make them write a paper on why Ben Foakes should be the England wicketkeeper.

Thinking of Foakes I wonder how things would have worked out if James Foster had been lured away by Hants when they approached him a few years ago. Would Foakes have still been with us? As a county we seem to be able to produce decent keepers - I like the look of Buttelman, for example, but why oh why no spinners? Anyway I've wandered off topic so apologies for that and Foakes must surely play in Sri Lanka.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Andy on January 21, 2020, 07:01:35 PM
On reflection I think that it would have been difficult to keep Foakes. Let's face it, Wheater only came back because he did not do well and Chopra wanted to go back home. We were not a good club to be honest at the time.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Bath Hammer on January 21, 2020, 11:05:59 PM
I like Butler as an individual & would have liked him to succeed but test cricket seems alien to him. Foakes is the natural choice - a more technical w/k & a solid reliable batsman.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: bwildered on January 27, 2020, 05:38:41 PM
Three thumping wins after a slow, has ever start. Getting good first innings scores, particularly at top of the order, made all the difference and backed up with some decent bowling performances.
New England coach Silverwood has his first away test series win under his belt. Will be interesting who and how the squad changes for a forthcoming series in Sri Lanka.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: IlfordEagle on January 27, 2020, 08:18:41 PM
A very satisfying series win with  several newbies/youngsters doing well, interesting how well Sibley & Crawley have done well together, bet Burns will rue his football injury now. Just hope we can keep Mark Wood fit as often as possible, really cannot ever see Jamie getting picked for England especially abroad as Eng seem to want all out pace which Jamie doesn't have.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: nat on January 27, 2020, 09:31:38 PM
Rose tinted specs off. SA were poor especially the batting. Can you really see this England team/squad winning against Australia or India?

The same old issues still exist. Wicketkeeper/batsman, spinners and the top 3  batsmen.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: SirChef26 on January 28, 2020, 12:10:43 AM
England are simply going through the motions with the spinners until who you know becomes eligible to play. I’ll be shocked if Harmer isn’t lining up in an England shirt against India.

The likes of Pope and Sibley will have a year’s extra experience by then hopefully which will see them as better players. Wicketkeepers are a problem though. All three aren’t good enough with the bat. Therefore I’d pick the best keeper by default and that is Foakes. I think there’s also a spot to be claimed in the batting order somewhere as despite not letting us down, Denly probably won’t be there long term and if he starts the summer badly, the media will be gunning for him.. A big summer ahead for the likes of Lawrence and other young county players.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Andy on January 28, 2020, 12:15:40 PM
A very satisfying series win with  several newbies/youngsters doing well, interesting how well Sibley & Crawley have done well together, bet Burns will rue his football injury now. Just hope we can keep Mark Wood fit as often as possible, really cannot ever see Jamie getting picked for England especially abroad as Eng seem to want all out pace which Jamie doesn't have.

...plus he can't bat.  Adolf Burns will probably come back in - at least there's some semblance of competition for batting places now.  Foakes should get a try out.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: nat on January 28, 2020, 02:26:33 PM
A very satisfying series win with  several newbies/youngsters doing well, interesting how well Sibley & Crawley have done well together, bet Burns will rue his football injury now. Just hope we can keep Mark Wood fit as often as possible, really cannot ever see Jamie getting picked for England especially abroad as Eng seem to want all out pace which Jamie doesn't have.

...plus he can't bat.  Adolf Burns will probably come back in - at least there's some semblance of competition for batting places now.  Foakes should get a try out.

"...Adolf Burns...." yep I noted the interesting haircut.
Title: Re: South Africa test series
Post by: Andy on January 28, 2020, 07:01:44 PM
...plus he can't bat.  Adolf Burns will probably come back in - at least there's some semblance of competition for batting places now.  Foakes should get a try out.

"...Adolf Burns...." yep I noted the interesting haircut.

Originally I thought George Orwell during the Spanish Civil War, but then someone else pointed out an even closer resemblance to a painter from Austria.  Of course, not inferring that invading large parts of Europe is a good thing, or that Mr Burns has any such intentions himself.