Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum

Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: bwildered on November 21, 2019, 05:53:26 AM

Title: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: bwildered on November 21, 2019, 05:53:26 AM
Did I hear this is a new test venue ? Looked like Garons with grass and floodlights.
Solid score for England. Has Foakes upset someone not to get back his Test place ?
Will we ever see Anderson and Broad together in the same line up again ?
Will we ever see Woakes and Curran together in the same line up ?
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Postman on November 21, 2019, 10:21:22 AM
Some of us will never be happy until Stokes, Woakes and Foakes take the field together
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: neil on November 21, 2019, 04:45:59 PM
Some of us will never be happy

Edited for truth!

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: bwildered on November 24, 2019, 12:08:26 PM
Both openers and night watchman already back in the hutch .
Can Captain Root , Denly , Stokes and Buttler survive the last day ?
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: LeedsExile on November 24, 2019, 03:26:35 PM
I read that Buttler is complaining about the state of pitches played on in county cricket. How many championship matches has he played in recent years? Whenever England struggle someone blames the county game.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: paulcm on November 24, 2019, 03:28:15 PM
Santner doing the damage so far this time,but it was Essex men first innings—Southee and the mighty Waagner—can we get him back please?
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: JasonP on November 24, 2019, 06:29:14 PM
I read that Buttler is complaining about the state of pitches played on in county cricket. How many championship matches has he played in recent years? Whenever England struggle someone blames the county game.

He's right though.  County cricket is no preparation for conditions like that.  County matches and England home matches played with Dukes balls are much more watchable but nothing like conditions in Australia and pitches like this in NZ.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: nat on November 24, 2019, 07:33:22 PM
I read that Buttler is complaining about the state of pitches played on in county cricket. How many championship matches has he played in recent years? Whenever England struggle someone blames the county game.

He's right though.  County cricket is no preparation for conditions like that.  County matches and England home matches played with Dukes balls are much more watchable but nothing like conditions in Australia and pitches like this in NZ.
Well...adapt.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: IlfordEagle on November 24, 2019, 08:51:24 PM
I read that Buttler is complaining about the state of pitches played on in county cricket. How many championship matches has he played in recent years? Whenever England struggle someone blames the county game.

Cannot recall when Buttler last played for Lancs in CC (Certainly not in 2019), not just some of the pitches to blame but the technique, or lack of, of many batsmen who are unable to graft etc in the way NZ did in their first innings.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Bath Hammer on November 24, 2019, 11:08:58 PM
Utterly pathetic batting display by England’s captain on a docile pitch on which NZ scored 600+. There was a time when he was compared with Kohli, Williamson & Smith. That seems a very long time ago. After we lose this series Incan see us being well beaten by SA.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: bwildered on November 25, 2019, 06:23:50 AM
Huge defeat . Big job on for Silverwood.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Andy on November 25, 2019, 09:35:28 AM
It’s looking like a long hard winter. Still, when Duncan Fletcher took over we stumbled to 2-4 in our first innings. Might actually benefit the team in the long term, either the captain will leave or he and Spoons will have carte Blanche to remove the egotistical and pick on ability (e.g. Foakes).

Admittedly the cupboard looks bare in county cricket in key areas, but at least Spoons has first hand experience of the county game.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Andy on November 25, 2019, 09:40:24 AM
Mind you, not surprised to see the policy of continually pitching the ball halfway down the wicket in a match involving Wagner and Silverwood...
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: JasonP on November 25, 2019, 12:00:39 PM
Utterly pathetic batting display by England’s captain on a docile pitch on which NZ scored 600+. There was a time when he was compared with Kohli, Williamson & Smith. That seems a very long time ago. After we lose this series Incan see us being well beaten by SA.

SA will suit us a lot more than NZ.  Their batting is worse than ours and the ball always does something in SA.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Mootown on November 25, 2019, 02:38:52 PM
South Africa are a poor team these days
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: IlfordEagle on November 25, 2019, 05:14:26 PM
Absolutely pathetic 'defiance' from Eng today, poor shot selections (Root & Pope) playing too far away from the body (as did Sibley yesterday), as for Buttler...well the worst of the lot, no stroke to a straight ball, he is at best a no 7 batsman, really hw should only play for Eng in white ball cricket, his technique is far too risky for Tests. Only Burns in part, Stokes, Denly& Curran in 2nd innings showed much & lots of work etc needed prior to Thurs against a solid, accurate attack with Wagner bowling superbly backed up by some fine fielding.
Silverwood has much to sort out, initially he needs Root to set an example ie bat responsibly to start with!!
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Bath Hammer on November 26, 2019, 03:09:23 AM
South Africa are a poor team these days

They need to be. The way we are playing we could soon be bottom of the heap. I was amazed to hear Alec Stewart suggest on The Debate that only Williamson would get into a combined NZ / England side. That seems ludicrous to me!
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: IlfordEagle on November 26, 2019, 09:09:34 AM
Williamson along with Taylor, Watling, possibly Boult & Southee, certainly a combined team would need NZ's durability & grit as Eng certainly don't possess it!
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Slogger on November 26, 2019, 11:16:28 AM
If you turned it round, what England players would NZ pick ahead of their own? Not too many I would suggest.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Valentines Park on November 26, 2019, 01:40:18 PM
I thought Wagner was deemed not even good enough to play for us.  ::)
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: JasonP on November 26, 2019, 01:50:59 PM
I thought Wagner was deemed not even good enough to play for us.  ::)

He's a flat wicket bowler.  If the ball does something like it does most times in county cricket then the likes of Porter, Cook, Siddle etc are much more effective than him.  If you are playing in conditions like those in NZ this week then he's much more effective than them.  For 90% of county matches, especially when we have Harmer aswell, a bowler like Wagner is not the type of bowler Essex need.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Valentines Park on November 26, 2019, 01:59:06 PM
For 90% of county matches, especially when we have Harmer aswell, a bowler like Wagner is not the type of bowler Essex need.

No argument there but some on here genuinely think Wagner wasn't good enough to play for us at all.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: nat on November 26, 2019, 02:05:19 PM
For 90% of county matches, especially when we have Harmer aswell, a bowler like Wagner is not the type of bowler Essex need.

No argument there but some on here genuinely think Wagner wasn't good enough to play for us at all.
He isn't. Which tells you all you need to know about England's batting.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: IlfordEagle on November 26, 2019, 06:52:06 PM
To be fair to Wagner, he's a great trier bowling with hostility all day long, but c**p at 1 day cricket as we  have all seen.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Andy on November 29, 2019, 11:36:46 AM
Following this short NZ tour reminds me of TISWAS - Today is Saturday, What a Shambles.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Bath Hammer on December 01, 2019, 04:00:12 AM
We do have another test on the go folks. We have at last had a partnership comparable with NZ though I fear with the loss of Stokes we won’t reach their first innings total. Still no-one to compete with BJ Watling. How we could do with a player with that level of concentration. Our newbies have it all to do to convince me.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Andy on December 01, 2019, 04:12:48 PM
Rory Burns' haircuts and 'tache do remind me of the 1930s, but not in a good way. 
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: nat on December 01, 2019, 07:00:39 PM
Rory Burns' haircuts and 'tache do remind me of the 1930s, but not in a good way.
Yep thought the same. Wonder what would have happened if we had played them at cricket?
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Andy on December 01, 2019, 08:39:35 PM
Rory Burns' haircuts and 'tache do remind me of the 1930s, but not in a good way.
Yep thought the same. Wonder what would have happened if we had played them at cricket?

We’d have hung on until a few Yanks became qualified to play for us 2 years later?

TBH I was actually thinking of George Orwell/Winston Smith rather than that little Austrian painter...
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Bath Hammer on December 02, 2019, 07:23:45 AM
At last a decent innings from Root. It’s been a very long time. This is what he needs to do again & again to instil some ballast  into our flimsy batting line up. Whether our uninspiring bowling attack can break through NZ is another matter.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: paulcm on December 02, 2019, 09:04:07 AM
Vagner is ABSOLUTELy what we need to compliment our array of right- handed fast-medium young seamers (and rough up the wicket for Harmer).
And of the 30 England wickets to fall, he’s taken 13,at an average of 19.98.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: nat on December 02, 2019, 12:33:53 PM
Vagner is ABSOLUTELy what we need to compliment our array of right- handed fast-medium young seamers (and rough up the wicket for Harmer).
And of the 30 England wickets to fall, he’s taken 13,at an average of 19.98.

We can and should do much better than V/Wagner. This generation of English batsmen is so poor at proper cricket ...because priorities lie elsewhere.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: JasonP on December 02, 2019, 01:25:39 PM
Vagner is ABSOLUTELy what we need to compliment our array of right- handed fast-medium young seamers (and rough up the wicket for Harmer).
And of the 30 England wickets to fall, he’s taken 13,at an average of 19.98.

Siddles record for Essex is much better than Wagners.  Wagner has 40 wickets at 38 for Essex in 13 CC matches.  Siddle has 71 wickets for Essex at 18 in 15 CC matches.  Wagner is absolutely not what we need.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: essexfan548 on December 02, 2019, 03:28:00 PM
Peter Siddle already has a contract with us for 2020. He seems to support our young bowlers well :)
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Bath Hammer on December 03, 2019, 04:54:43 AM
England has a long way to go to be a competitive test side. On utterly docile pitches most of our batsmen were unable to accumulate big scores apart from one partnership. Furthermore, their bowling is quite pedestrian. There has been a lot of hype about Archer but he was unable to make anything happen whatsoever on unhelpful pitches. We”ll see if they have learnt anything for South Africa but I’m not holding my breath!
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Perov on December 03, 2019, 08:02:40 AM
The one advantage of Wagner, being left armed,  is that he roughs up the pitch for Harmer.
If only Walter could up his game, he could do the same.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Bath Hammer on December 03, 2019, 10:13:36 AM
Yes - it’s difficult to see what Walters offers. With his height he could be another Pringle but I haven’t seen any progress.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Slogger on December 03, 2019, 11:31:24 AM
Walter seemed to go backwards after going on that ECB fast bowlers camp....
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Valentines Park on December 03, 2019, 12:31:14 PM
Walter seemed to go backwards after going on that ECB fast bowlers camp....

Another case of Shine taking the shine off bowlers?
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: JasonP on December 03, 2019, 12:37:23 PM
England has a long way to go to be a competitive test side. On utterly docile pitches most of our batsmen were unable to accumulate big scores apart from one partnership. Furthermore, their bowling is quite pedestrian. There has been a lot of hype about Archer but he was unable to make anything happen whatsoever on unhelpful pitches. We”ll see if they have learnt anything for South Africa but I’m not holding my breath!

The pitches in SA should be a lot more bowler friendly.  Hopefully they should suit us a bit more.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Andy on December 03, 2019, 01:55:25 PM
Walter seemed to go backwards after going on that ECB fast bowlers camp....

Another case of Shine taking the shine off bowlers?

Shine's "camp" is the cricketing equivalent of the Manchurian Candidate.  Maybe he's an Aussie in disguise?
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: IlfordEagle on December 04, 2019, 06:02:11 PM
I believe Wagner is close to 200 Test wickets - an impressive tally, so effective in Tests but not in 1 day.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: Andy on December 04, 2019, 07:14:03 PM
I believe Wagner is close to 200 Test wickets - an impressive tally, so effective in Tests but not in 1 day.

He has a specific role, it works in the context of the Kiwi attack reasonably well. I don't get the very negative comments about Wagner: yes, maybe there are better bowlers out there, but are they available and would they put the effort in? 

Siddle, Wagner and the other overseas bowlers (I'm including Harmer) we've had in recent years have contributed generally well and have supported our local lads well.
Title: Re: Kiwi -2019.
Post by: paulcm on December 04, 2019, 07:19:37 PM
Please read my Siddle/Wagner comparison on the McGrath thread.