Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: LeedsExile on July 17, 2019, 01:59:57 PM
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The most interesting thing for Essex fans are the inclusion of Gregory and Leach from Somerset. If they play and do well then Somerset will be severely hampered going forward. I am somewhat surprised that Stone has been included as he has only just returned from a lengthy injury break.
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Geoff Arnold (England scout), was at Chelmsford for 2 days watching him.
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Good player Gregory.
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I was impressed with Gregory as well, he looks a genuine all rounder.
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Good player Gregory.
Will be found out by decent bowling/batting. Not quite good enough in either discipline. Not an Ashes player but will probably do ok against second level teams like Ireland.
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Nat - you may well be right.We could do with someone like him at Essex.
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It looks very light in batting. BAirstow 5, take your pick at 6, Moeen, Curran or Woakes?
Surprised Stone's in after so little time back from injury, I thought it might be Jamie Overton's chance.
Agree about Gregory - fine county man, but can't see him as a test player, especially against the Aussies
Dominic Sibley must feel disappointed. I'd hoped he'd open with Roy at 3 and Denley at 5.
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Jamie Porter must wonder what he has to do to get (even) in the squad, it is obviously not enough to take 300 FC wickets in just under 5 seasons inc approx 180 in CC1 whereas Stone has had about 3 games this season , is hardly firing on all cylinders & barring having pace as an asset has done very little imo, plus approx 120 career wickets.
The rest of the squad is no surprise, Sibley also has a case but his time will come, probably later in summer if Eng struggle in the Ashes.Jason Roy was the obvious choice for opener, he has had no red ball cricket this season but does have big match experience which may or may not help him, hopefully he will go in with his confidence high after the WC.
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Jamie Porter must wonder what he has to do to get (even) in the squad, it is obviously not enough to take 300 FC wickets in just under 5 seasons inc approx 180 in CC1 whereas Stone has had about 3 games this season , is hardly firing on all cylinders & barring having pace as an asset has done very little imo, plus approx 120 career wickets.
The rest of the squad is no surprise, Sibley also has a case but his time will come, probably later in summer if Eng struggle in the Ashes.Jason Roy was the obvious choice for opener, he has had no red ball cricket this season but does have big match experience which may or may not help him, hopefully he will go in with his confidence high after the WC.
As you say Stone has pace and with Archer and Wood out the England attack is pretty samey otherwise. Assuming Porter is fit to play then it would have been Gregory that was picked ahead of him. They are of similar pace, Curran as well. Gregory obviously bats much better but is likely to bat at 9 if he plays so I'm not sure his better batting should be that relevant.
As for Stone I would think it was down to him or Jamie Overton but neither are likely to play in the Ashes.
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Porter will only get into the England set up if none is able to replace Anderson. Jamie’s poor batting holds him back and has taken wickets on very helpful wickets. As one eyed a ECCC supporter, I still can see having that extra height, pace, being left armer with lower order runs puts him some way back in the queue. Great for us though...
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Porter will only get into the England set up if none is able to replace Anderson. Jamie’s poor batting holds him back and has taken wickets on very helpful wickets. As one eyed a ECCC supporter, I still can see having that extra height, pace, being left armer with lower order runs puts him some way back in the queue. Great for us though...
Stone looked well short of a gallop against us. If I could see that how could Horse not see it?
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Porter will only get into the England set up if none is able to replace Anderson. Jamie’s poor batting holds him back and has taken wickets on very helpful wickets. As one eyed a ECCC supporter, I still can see having that extra height, pace, being left armer with lower order runs puts him some way back in the queue. Great for us though...
Stone looked well short of a gallop against us. If I could see that how could Horse not see it?
In the world of the ECB/NoPaint speed is all. Whereas history tells us that making the ball do something is always more successful.
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Nat, having the ability to wobble it around is nothing without control and cunning. Anderson has learned this, not sure Porter has as yet. Still, all the best for Eccc.
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It all comes with experience, Dennis Lillee was all out pace when he started but as he got older he cut his pace & moved the ball more, let it work for him & became a better rounded bowler, hopefully Jamie will acquire this as he progresses.
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It all comes with experience, Dennis Lillee was all out pace when he started but as he got older he cut his pace & moved the ball more, let it work for him & became a better rounded bowler, hopefully Jamie will acquire this as he progresses.
Twas a long time ago, but I remember Dennis Lillee in 1972 as pretty much the complete article (within a year or so of his Test debut), terrifyingly fast and with the ability to move the ball off the seam. A few years later having a chap called Thompson at the other end didn't do him any harm, either. Like Michael Holding, Lillee only cut his pace later in his career, out of bodily necessity - if anyone's got any evidence to the contrary, I'd be interested to hear it.
Regarding Stone, I'm surprised he's been picked so soon after returning from injury (I'd have preferred Jamie Overton), but I can see the logic. The team has Curran, barely above medium pace, with Broad & Woakes at F-M, someone to provide real pace - especially if Lords proves to be a fast, bouncy wicket - should be of great value,even if he leaks more run than most. I couldn't see the point of selecting another medium-fast man (Gregory). And it'll be good to get some first test nerves out of the way before the Aussie Tests.
Going in to this summer's Tests with a seam attack of identikit medium-fast men would no doubt delight Nat, but not half as much as it would delight the Aussies, with Starc, Hazelwood and Cummings all read to give our guys some serious 90mph pounding including a good helping of chin music.
Let's see what Stone can do in the next 4 days. My guess that that however he does he'll be behind Archer & Wood in the queue for remaining bowling places against the Aussies tests - Anderson & Woakes, if fit, pick themselves,IMHO. Not so sure about Broad.
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... that's not to mention Stokes & Tom Curran in the all-rounders category ... we do have some depth to our seam resources now.
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It all comes with experience, Dennis Lillee was all out pace when he started but as he got older he cut his pace & moved the ball more, let it work for him & became a better rounded bowler, hopefully Jamie will acquire this as he progresses.
Twas a long time ago, but I remember Dennis Lillee in 1972 as pretty much the complete article (within a year or so of his Test debut), terrifyingly fast and with the ability to move the ball off the seam. A few years later having a chap called Thompson at the other end didn't do him any harm, either. Like Michael Holding, Lillee only cut his pace later in his career, out of bodily necessity - if anyone's got any evidence to the contrary, I'd be interested to hear it.
Regarding Stone, I'm surprised he's been picked so soon after returning from injury (I'd have preferred Jamie Overton), but I can see the logic. The team has Curran, barely above medium pace, with Broad & Woakes at F-M, someone to provide real pace - especially if Lords proves to be a fast, bouncy wicket - should be of great value,even if he leaks more run than most. I couldn't see the point of selecting another medium-fast man (Gregory). And it'll be good to get some first test nerves out of the way before the Aussie Tests.
Going in to this summer's Tests with a seam attack of identikit medium-fast men would no doubt delight Nat, but not half as much as it would delight the Aussies, with Starc, Hazelwood and Cummings all read to give our guys some serious 90mph pounding including a good helping of chin music.
Let's see what Stone can do in the next 4 days. My guess that that however he does he'll be behind Archer & Wood in the queue for remaining bowling places against the Aussies tests - Anderson & Woakes, if fit, pick themselves,IMHO. Not so sure about Broad.
Only recently I've seen clips of both FoT and Hadlee bowling in around 1971/2 and both had somewhat different actions (even to my untrained eye). I would describe them both as looking a bit like the bowlers I saw later years, but rather straining in their run ups and actions. This would provide a real object lesson for any up and coming quick because both bowlers could hustle batsmen when they chose to.
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Always thought England missed a trick by not picking Murtagh for Lord's tests.
Well done on belatedly making the honours board.
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Always thought England missed a trick by not picking Murtagh for Lord's tests.
Well done on belatedly making the honours board.
Yep he's as English as you or me.
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Fine display of seam bowling by Murtagh, good support from Adair & Rankin, but abysmal stuff by our lot. Particularly dreadful from Bairstow, but lot of other awful shots. What happened to "see it early, play n late" when the ball's swinging? Too much one-day cricket and/or complacent attitudes?
One tiny bright pot: Curran and Stone at least showed a bit of fight - and technique! - at the end.
The batting line-up always looked flaky, Bairstow (keeping) at 5 & Moeen at 6 just won't do. I was surprised the latter was picked, his batting has been rubbish for quite a while.
Graham Thorpe has got his work cut out.
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In this all change England Test Match team, perhaps Peter Such was appointed batting coach for this Test and Graham Thorpe bowling coach.
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Good news-I’ve just deleted my 15 line post bemoaning the lack of batsmen who can graft their way to a decent score in red ball cricket, attributing this to the deliberate devaluation of proper cricket by the ECB and ending with a call to dump Graves, Harrison and their wretched Hundred in a deep hole to be filled with quicklime.
It’s still true though.....
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The batting line-up always looked flaky, Bairstow (keeping) at 5 & Moeen at 6 just won't do. I was surprised the latter was picked, his batting has been rubbish for quite a while.
Graham Thorpe has got his work cut out.
Another ex-England star from the dark days of English cricket. I thought we'd learnt by now to get proper (i.e. non-English) coaches in?
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Another ex-England star from the dark days of English cricket.
That's no way to talk about Nasser's best mate.
I bet it's a laugh a minute when those 2 get together.
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The batting line-up always looked flaky, Bairstow (keeping) at 5 & Moeen at 6 just won't do. I was surprised the latter was picked, his batting has been rubbish for quite a while.
Graham Thorpe has got his work cut out.
Another ex-England star from the dark days of English cricket. I thought we'd learnt by now to get proper (i.e. non-English) coaches in?
I'm living proof of good English coaches. Just check out my CV ...
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Successfully obdurate opening batsman e.g. I could empty a ground on a sunny day
Unique leg spinner e.g. No two balls were bowled with the same action
Successful captain of multiple teams e.g. Led Ibis 4XI to 7 successive wins despite the 3XI nicking my best players
Talent spotter without parallel e.g. Cook jnr
Talent-less spotter without parallel e.g. Big Saj
Qualified coach e.g. no convictions
Successful coach e.g. kids kept returning week after week despite the beatings
Qualified umpire e.g. constantly in demand because I don't charge a fee
Own set of training cones
Innovative training routines e.g. another jealous coach nicked my equipment
I can't understand why I don't get an international gig.
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Talent-less spotter without parallel e.g. Big Saj
Surely the talentless spotter without parallel is the guy who signed him?
No rubbish cricketer knowingly unsigned.
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Jack Leach to open in the first test against the Aussies?
At least he seems to know where his off stump is - unlike Rory Burns.
Never mind, our guys have got a week of 20:20 between Tests to help them get prepared for the Aussies, so all should be well!
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Fine display of seam bowling by Murtagh, good support from Adair & Rankin, but abysmal stuff by our lot. Particularly dreadful from Bairstow, but lot of other awful shots. What happened to "see it early, play n late" when the ball's swinging? Too much one-day cricket and/or complacent attitudes?
One tiny bright pot: Curran and Stone at least showed a bit of fight - and technique! - at the end.
The batting line-up always looked flaky, Bairstow (keeping) at 5 & Moeen at 6 just won't do. I was surprised the latter was picked, his batting has been rubbish for quite a while.
Graham Thorpe has got his work cut out.
Moeen has a decent record in England as a bowler coming in at 8. When Buttler and Stokes are back that's where he'll bat. They're treating this match as a little bit of a practice match thinking they'd win pretty easily no matter what and it didn't go well on day 1!
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The batting line-up always looked flaky, Bairstow (keeping) at 5 & Moeen at 6 just won't do. I was surprised the latter was picked, his batting has been rubbish for quite a while.
Graham Thorpe has got his work cut out.
Another ex-England star from the dark days of English cricket. I thought we'd learnt by now to get proper (i.e. non-English) coaches in?
I'm living proof of good English coaches. Just check out my CV ...
...
Successfully obdurate opening batsman e.g. I could empty a ground on a sunny day
Unique leg spinner e.g. No two balls were bowled with the same action
Successful captain of multiple teams e.g. Led Ibis 4XI to 7 successive wins despite the 3XI nicking my best players
Talent spotter without parallel e.g. Cook jnr
Talent-less spotter without parallel e.g. Big Saj
Qualified coach e.g. no convictions
Successful coach e.g. kids kept returning week after week despite the beatings
Qualified umpire e.g. constantly in demand because I don't charge a fee
Own set of training cones
Innovative training routines e.g. another jealous coach nicked my equipment
I can't understand why I don't get an international gig.
Your talent spotting when it came to Harmer wasn't too great!
Very underwhelming. His record is average at best and there are better options in the UK.
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They're treating this match as a little bit of a practice match thinking they'd win pretty easily no matter what and it didn't go well on day 1!
Murtagh knows the Nursery End like the back of his hand & a lot of the Irish side have played county cricket.
They were fired up & England (Curran & Stone aside) were complacent.
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They're treating this match as a little bit of a practice match thinking they'd win pretty easily no matter what and it didn't go well on day 1!
Murtagh knows the Nursery End like the back of his hand & a lot of the Irish side have played county cricket.
They were fired up & England (Curran & Stone aside) were complacent.
Complacency as well as being short of preparation. Woakes and Roy haven't played first class cricket this year, Ali and Bairstow for 6 months and Root since April. They made 7 between them in the first innings. With such a small gap between the world cup and the Ashes it was always going to be very difficult to get the best preparation.
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Once upon a time England players when from Test to one day cricket to 3 day in the same week. Our snowflakes nowadays can’t seem to ‘change their mindset’ whereas their opponents can.
Watch how Khwhaja and Smith move smoothly into 5 day (well 3.5 day) mode.
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Moeen has a decent record in England as a bowler coming in at 8. When Buttler and Stokes are back that's where he'll bat. They're treating this match as a little bit of a practice match thinking they'd win pretty easily no matter what and it didn't go well on day 1!
Ali’s Test batting average has been poor for a couple of years. He’s been worked out. Playing him at 8 works only if you don’t bounce him, rather like Broad at 10.
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Heading for a test match super over ?
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Heading for a test match super over ?
Well, in the end the Irish innings managed to survive more than 6 deliveries. Presumably for a bit of 'criac' they sent out the cast of Father Ted...
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I think this Test Match is a glimpse of the future and not one I like the look of. It was billed as a 4 day match, a retrograde step in my opinion, but actually lasted only two days and a session, albeit extended sessions. It was not a case of one team scoring heavily and rolling the other over twice which can happen. Twenty wickets fell in the match and only Jack Leach played anything resembling a test innings. The inability of modern day players to "value their wicket" has now reached epidemic proportions. I expect the Ashes tests to follow a similar pattern as there are few batsman on either side capable of staying in against the moving ball.
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Do both countries play for .....The Jimmy Cricket Cup. ( There's more ).
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I’m coming around to the idea of a 4 day Test. Providing that the teams get their overs in promptly, better to have four competitive days. I think too many teams get behind the 8 ball and give up because there’s no way they’ll hang out for 5 days.
Funnily enough, the use of lights means that we shouldn’t lose as much time and batting is more difficult. In effect, it could work against 5 day tests (especially in damp overcast conditions). Again, could it mean that we should welcome 4 day matches?
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I’m coming around to the idea of a 4 day Test. Providing that the teams get their overs in promptly, better to have four competitive days. I think too many teams get behind the 8 ball and give up because there’s no way they’ll hang out for 5 days.
Funnily enough, the use of lights means that we shouldn’t lose as much time and batting is more difficult. In effect, it could work against 5 day tests (especially in damp overcast conditions). Again, could it mean that we should welcome 4 day matches?
Get their overs in promptly? Don't make me laugh. Over rates are a joke and still declining. Players and administrators don't seem to care.
Test cricket is on the way out, I'd give it 5 years tops.
Players are increasingly opting for 'white ball only' contracts, Liam Dawson is the latest to apparently show such an interest. The advent of the despised '100 competition' will only increase the player exodus from proper cricket.
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I’m coming around to the idea of a 4 day Test. Providing that the teams get their overs in promptly, better to have four competitive days. I think too many teams get behind the 8 ball and give up because there’s no way they’ll hang out for 5 days.
Funnily enough, the use of lights means that we shouldn’t lose as much time and batting is more difficult. In effect, it could work against 5 day tests (especially in damp overcast conditions). Again, could it mean that we should welcome 4 day matches?
Get their overs in promptly? Don't make me laugh. Over rates are a joke and still declining. Players and administrators don't seem to care.
A good reason not to buy a life membership.
Test cricket is on the way out, I'd give it 5 years tops.
Players are increasingly opting for 'white ball only' contracts, Liam Dawson is the latest to apparently show such an interest. The advent of the despised '100 competition' will only increase the player exodus from proper cricket.
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somewhere down the line, once people get bored with white ball cricket, someone will ‘invent’ multiple innings cricket that will last more than one day. What goes around comes around...