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Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: bwildered on July 12, 2019, 05:28:06 AM

Title: Ashes -2019
Post by: bwildered on July 12, 2019, 05:28:06 AM
Already lost a first ever semi in World Cup . England unable to find a decent couple of openers.
All to play for .
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: mawallace on July 12, 2019, 12:47:21 PM
Heard Peter Siddle's name mentioned by Jim Maxwell on TMS yesterday - tipped to be chosen as he is "in form"
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on July 12, 2019, 03:45:50 PM
Heard Peter Siddle's name mentioned by Jim Maxwell on TMS yesterday - tipped to be chosen as he is "in form"

Yep. Sadly I heard this as well. Would make sense to pick him for the Ashes, although whether taking wickets at county level (certainly this season) is any indication of potential success against Test batting line ups is a moot point.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Perov on July 12, 2019, 07:39:43 PM
If Siddle gets picked could we  keep Amir for the Championship games?
As far as I can see Pakistan have no fixtures in Aug and Sept.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: mawallace on July 12, 2019, 08:21:47 PM
That may be fine for Kent.

but I do recall that last time Amir was here there were mummerings from the PCB that we over worked him - I wonder if he comes with some supervsion re the number of overs he can bowl!
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: IlfordEagle on July 12, 2019, 08:44:58 PM
Given Amir's effectiveness for us in CC last time that might be better than not having him, I'd hope he'd jump at the chance to play for us again.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: JasonP on July 12, 2019, 09:29:06 PM
The Carribbean Premier League starts early September.  I'm almost certain Amir is playing in that.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Oldhasbeen on July 27, 2019, 10:25:58 AM
Just seen the squad - I am puzzled why Leach is out and Moeen is in.

Rory Burns is a lucky boy. I wondered if the selectors would gamble on Dominic Sibley on his home ground given Burns wretched form and poor batting in the Ireland Test

If the weather's looking helpful to seamers, what odds us going in without Moeen and have Sam Curran in to prop up the batting and offer variety with his left-armers?

Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on July 27, 2019, 10:32:51 AM
Just seen the squad - I am puzzled why Leach is out and Moeen is in.

....

A close call but suspect Ali is considered more of a threat against left handers.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: honkytonk on July 27, 2019, 10:59:17 AM
Without checking, Alis bowling record at home is pretty good I think
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Oldhasbeen on July 27, 2019, 11:06:47 AM
Just seen the squad - I am puzzled why Leach is out and Moeen is in.

....

A close call but suspect Ali is considered more of a threat against left handers.
Valid point.
 I just hope the selectors aren't expecting any runs from him. The Aussie quicks will exploit his airy wafts outside off stump mercilessly
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Heisenberg on July 27, 2019, 11:23:55 AM
Still don't get the Joe Denly hype.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on July 27, 2019, 11:34:26 AM
Still don't get the Joe Denly hype.

It ain't hype. One of the best of a poor bunch.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Oldhasbeen on July 27, 2019, 11:56:20 AM
Still don't get the Joe Denly hype.
I haven't heard any, but the Independent's cricket reporter summed it up nicely by saying that Denly's achievement of being top scorer in the first innings against Ireland was like  winning the Tallest Gnome competition. Given that he did achieve that small feat, and was idiotically run out by Root in the second before he could get a decent score, I can't blame the selectors for sticking with him, even if I'm not convinced he's a Test number 3.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on July 27, 2019, 12:59:41 PM
Tallest gnome? Fletcher would’ve applied himself better on that first morning.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: IlfordEagle on July 27, 2019, 03:53:32 PM
Mentioning Sam Curran, one thing he has in abundance is fighting spirit, he is a gritty little player & I guarantee if he goes to Oz for the next Ashes tour the Aussies will respect him for that, he always looks like he really cares when he plays for England ( & Surrey for that matter), he also contributes one way or another when he plays unlike Mooen of late.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on July 28, 2019, 09:59:59 AM
Feel sorry for Leach and Sam Curran. Clearly the selectors feel Leach is not a better spinner than Ali, whilst his 92 was a freak innings. SC might lose out because he’s not banging the ball into the deck and we have Stokes as all rounder plus the likes of Woakes. Maybe Curran junior should move himself up the order for Slurrey?? He has the tenacity.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Oldhasbeen on August 02, 2019, 05:31:04 PM
Well, we've certainly had 2 days or real Test cricket. Rory Burns had his share of plays & misses, but for grit, determination and some intelligent changes to his approach (particularly to Lyon) he deserves his ton, proving the doubters, e.g. me, wrong. I raise my glass to you, sir.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on August 02, 2019, 09:39:30 PM
Well, we've certainly had 2 days or real Test cricket. Rory Burns had his share of plays & misses, but for grit, determination and some intelligent changes to his approach (particularly to Lyon) he deserves his ton, proving the doubters, e.g. me, wrong. I raise my glass to you, sir.
Yep got to agree. A limited player but tons of determination.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: IlfordEagle on August 03, 2019, 08:18:24 PM
Very pleased for Burns who has definitely got determination & character in large quantities, not pretty to watch but, like Ally often used to be for Eng, got the job done.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Oldhasbeen on August 04, 2019, 09:11:48 AM
Very pleased for Burns who has definitely got determination & character in large quantities, not pretty to watch but, like Ally often used to be for Eng, got the job done.
Not pretty to watch and deathly boring when he's playing for Surrey and scoring big against our boys - but it was oddly enjoyable watching him yesterday.

Can't see Jimmy bowling this Test, or for the next few. Might be end of his career?

Big Q today is can we get Smith out before he gets another ton. There were some interesting career stats suggesting that he just loves off spinners but is much less prolific against slow left armers - given Moeen's uselessness with the bat  these days(surely he should be batting below Woakes), could it be time for Jack Leach at lords?
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 04, 2019, 12:24:10 PM
Moeen has been poor ever since he got worked out with the short ball. Now reduced to bowling full tosses. Joke selection. Jack Leach has dodged a bullet.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: IlfordEagle on August 04, 2019, 08:13:17 PM
It would be kind to drop Moeen Ali even if only for 1 Test to give him a jolt & let Leach see what he can do.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: bwildered on August 05, 2019, 05:15:09 AM
No rhythm in his bowling, can a second innings batting display save Moen's test place? Will the World Cup winners be able to survive a days test batting on a fifth day to keep the series level ?
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 05, 2019, 10:19:13 AM
Moeen's test place has been in doubt for over a year.  I know that 'class is permanent, but form temporary' but he's never really shown much class.  Had we got a fully fit seam attack and confidence in our top order he'd never got near this Test team.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 05, 2019, 02:20:27 PM
Well, that was cr@p.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on August 05, 2019, 05:14:05 PM
Well, that was cr@p.
Yep that's what you get when you neglect proper county cricket.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: JasonP on August 05, 2019, 05:27:50 PM
Didnt watch today but it's been a very odd match.  I don't ever remember a Test Match that was effectively 10 vs 11 half an hour into the game.  Had Anderson have been able to bowl then the likelihood of 120-8 being turned into 284 was almost nil.  With him we would have had a very good chance of victory, I think.
We know there are problems.  Roy should be at 4 and Denly should be nowhere near any England Team.  I'm a fan of Moeens, his record in England is very good but he has always been a real confidence player.  After what happened to him last time in Australia where his form and confidence went totally he's pretty much unselectable at the moment.  They'll have to bring Leach in guess.  Lords doesnt offer much for spin and I don't think he's that good really when it comes to being international class but there's little choice.  The bonus is he'll weaken the Somerset team, which I'm all for.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: pablo on August 05, 2019, 07:32:33 PM
It won't happen but I would drop Ali and Bairstow based on current form and Buttler whose talents are many but don't seem to embrace the 5 day game. I would bring in Sibley and Foakes- Archer has to play to replace Anderson and I would also play Bess rather than Leach. Bess's only test match was a success and he can bat and field. After a poor season last year he has played well in all formats for Yorkshire albeit on loan. I'm afraid I would consider Northeast too to replace Denly. Michael Holding should replace Isha Guha as a commentator on Sky but that's a marginal call!
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on August 05, 2019, 08:29:35 PM
It won't happen but I would drop Ali and Bairstow based on current form and Buttler whose talents are many but don't seem to embrace the 5 day game. I would bring in Sibley and Foakes- Archer has to play to replace Anderson and I would also play Bess rather than Leach. Bess's only test match was a success and he can bat and field. After a poor season last year he has played well in all formats for Yorkshire albeit on loan. I'm afraid I would consider Northeast too to replace Denly. Michael Holding should replace Isha Guha as a commentator on Sky but that's a marginal call!

Agree with all of that especially the MH/IG bit.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Postman on August 05, 2019, 08:31:03 PM
It won't happen but I would drop Ali and Bairstow based on current form and Buttler whose talents are many but don't seem to embrace the 5 day game. I would bring in Sibley and Foakes- Archer has to play to replace Anderson and I would also play Bess rather than Leach. Bess's only test match was a success and he can bat and field. After a poor season last year he has played well in all formats for Yorkshire albeit on loan. I'm afraid I would consider Northeast too to replace Denly. Michael Holding should replace Isha Guha as a commentator on Sky but that's a marginal call!
Isha Guha would have bowled better than Moeen, sad to say
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: IlfordEagle on August 05, 2019, 08:32:45 PM
A pathetic batting collapse again, Roy was out to a 1 day shot, one or two should have been out before they were (some close reviews), poor shots generally & few know how to play a long innings - Thanks ECB for ruining red ball cricket & not allowing Contracted players to play more than 2 FC games per season.
Aussies bowled really well (all of them, Siddle deserved better figures but did his job, very impressed with Lyon who is a real match winner, Cummins too bowled really well.
Eng need to make changes, Roy down to 4, Ali needs to be dropped to be replaced by Curran or Bess/Leach, also Archer to play if fit. Argument also for Foakes as W/K as he is a steady batsman as well.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 05, 2019, 10:11:03 PM
We just don’t have an adequate batting line up & a collapse is always waiting to happen. It is particularly disappointing that Root is now a very average test batsman & nowhere near Smith & Kohli or probably even Dickinson as someone who can be relied upon to change the course of a game. The likes of Bairstow & Butler are far too flaky for this form of cricket & the former nowhere near lives up to his inflated ego. The trouble is that the cupboard seems fairly bare but I would be happy to see the likes of Leach & Curran given further opportunities. I don’t see how Denly got in the team in the first place.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on August 06, 2019, 09:14:56 AM
It takes a special type of incompetence to arrange a 3 day game for the touring side and no proper cricket for the home team before the next Test match.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: LeedsExile on August 06, 2019, 10:04:52 AM
Nat all the emphasis was placed on winning the one day trophy. As far as the ECB are concerned it is job done.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Slogger on August 06, 2019, 10:56:31 AM
Nat all the emphasis was placed on winning the one day trophy. As far as the ECB are concerned it is job done.

Quite - either England v a county match or a round of championship matches played starting on Thursday rather than the 18 August round.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: IlfordEagle on August 06, 2019, 09:27:07 PM
We just don’t have an adequate batting line up & a collapse is always waiting to happen. It is particularly disappointing that Root is now a very average test batsman & nowhere near Smith & Kohli or probably even Dickinson as someone who can be relied upon to change the course of a game. The likes of Bairstow & Butler are far too flaky for this form of cricket & the former nowhere near lives up to his inflated ego. The trouble is that the cupboard seems fairly bare but I would be happy to see the likes of Leach & Curran given further opportunities. I don’t see how Denly got in the team in the first place.

Sorry to be awkward but who is Dickinson?
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 07, 2019, 01:14:52 AM
Sorry to be awkward but who is Dickinson?

Sorry, Williamson (you probably guessed anyway ;))
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on August 07, 2019, 07:01:54 PM
<sarcasm alert> Top shout out to Worcestershire for fielding a near 1st team against the Aussies today. We want them to be well prepared against our well prepared boys.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Oldhasbeen on August 10, 2019, 06:19:31 AM
Denley & Bairstow should consider themselves very lucky indeed to still be in the Test squad. However Burns was lucky last time .....

Some interesting speculation that Buttler might takes the gloves this time and drop to 7. It does make sense as Bairstow looks more like a "proper Test batsman" and I'm sceptical about having both Roy & Buttler in the top 6. Only problem is Bairstow's batting is pretty sh*te at the mo and lord knows where his head is.

I wondered if Dawid Malan might be picked instead of Denley - horses for courses, he's in good form, it's his home ground and he's done well against the aussies before. And he's a fighter. But Smith is, apparently, a Denley fan.Last chance saloon, Joe.


Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: LeedsExile on August 10, 2019, 08:13:25 AM
If Buttler does not keep, I see no point in him being in the side. They should make Foakes keeper at 7 and put Bairstow at 4.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: honkytonk on August 12, 2019, 01:33:45 PM
I agree LE

Buttler is not worth a place unless he keeps.  Bairstow needs to be told that he is not keeping, no matter how much he wants to.  His batting avge has gone from 50s to 30s. He needs to get himself back in the runs. 

I would have gone

Burns
Roy
Root
Bairstow/Foakes
Foakes/Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler (w)
Woakes
Archer
Broad
Leach
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 15, 2019, 02:27:06 PM
The trouble is we haven’t got a single international quality test batsman. None of them have the patience, concentration & technique to play a decent test innings on s regular basis. You can get rid of the likes of Butler but who do you bring in? The cupboard is bare!
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: IlfordEagle on August 15, 2019, 03:05:54 PM
There is one batsman good enough who has the game.... but he ain't doing it any more, he did his bit many times (despite what Piers Morgan the fountain of cricket knowledge says!!)
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 15, 2019, 03:07:50 PM
There is one batsman good enough who has the game.... but he ain't doing it any more, he did his bit many times (despite what Piers Morgan the fountain of cricket knowledge says!!)

Indeed.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 15, 2019, 06:04:46 PM
Okay - who?
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: bobw on August 16, 2019, 08:53:41 AM
There is one batsman good enough who has the game.... but he ain't doing it any more, he did his bit many times (despite what Piers Morgan the fountain of cricket knowledge says!!)

After the Ireland game it appears we do. It's only that he is batting at 11 in this test and not opening
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Valentines Park on August 16, 2019, 09:48:34 AM
Piers Morgan the fountain of cricket knowledge

If he's a fountain it's the Manneken Pis.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 16, 2019, 12:34:02 PM
Piers Morgan the fountain of cricket knowledge

If he's a fountain it's the Manneken Pis.

Stayed in a B&B near the MP - a very small and disappointing fountain it is.  Unlike Piers who could never be accused of being small.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: LeedsExile on August 16, 2019, 12:57:15 PM
The ECB will be livid with the umpires today. You have to bowl 25 overs to avoid paying out a refund to spectators. They went off just as the 25th over was starting. :)
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Valentines Park on August 16, 2019, 01:05:59 PM
The ECB will be livid with the umpires today. You have to bowl 25 overs to avoid paying out a refund to spectators. They went off just as the 25th over was starting. :)

I recall a test against NZ at Lord's where they bowled exactly 25 overs in a day.

Giles Clarke probably held a gun to Steve Bucknor's head as the players were on & off like a tart's knickers.  ;D
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 16, 2019, 01:07:40 PM
The ECB will be livid with the umpires today. You have to bowl 25 overs to avoid paying out a refund to spectators. They went off just as the 25th over was starting. :)

:)

Remember the Test when Phil de Freitas bowled two deliveries before the umpires called the rest of the day off?  No refunds if any play happened in those days...
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Wicky on August 16, 2019, 06:32:26 PM
The ECB will be livid with the umpires today. You have to bowl 25 overs to avoid paying out a refund to spectators. They went off just as the 25th over was starting. :)

https://www.ecb.co.uk/refundscheme

For days 1 to 4 of the Specsavers Test Match:  If play is restricted or does not take place at the ground on the day for which this ticket is valid, you may claim a refund of only the match ticket value subject to there being: (a) 15 overs or less because of adverse weather conditions or completion of the match - a full refund; (b) 15.1 overs to 29.5 overs because of adverse weather conditions or completion of the match - a 50% refund.  In no other circumstances can money be refunded.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: LeedsExile on August 16, 2019, 07:19:22 PM
I was only quoting what I heard on TMS. You can't believe anything you hear on the BBC these days.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 17, 2019, 12:10:07 PM
I was only quoting what I heard on TMS. You can't believe anything you hear on the BBC these days.

Exactly. Mind you, it's good that refunds are offered when the last 'day' constitutes only an hour or two. Given the way England have messed around in this series.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: mawallace on August 17, 2019, 02:09:14 PM
Refunds are only given for days 1 to 4. So no refunds for day 5
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 17, 2019, 04:30:41 PM
Refunds are only given for days 1 to 4. So no refunds for day 5

Well, this England Test team doesn't 'do' 5 day cricket...
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 17, 2019, 06:54:38 PM
Another failure for our “only world class” test batsman  >:(
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: IlfordEagle on August 17, 2019, 07:39:20 PM
I believe our world class batsman is playing for Essex at Canterbury tomorrow.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: bwildered on August 17, 2019, 08:33:35 PM
Looks likely our test  team require another 50 overs ,to escape defeat .
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 18, 2019, 02:18:08 AM
I believe our world class batsman is playing for Essex at Canterbury tomorrow.

I fear he is world class no longer but he would have lasted longer than most of the inept batsmen representing England at present who rarely get criticised. Root would do well to study & replicate Smith’s technique for all his moral failings.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Slogger on August 18, 2019, 09:11:15 AM
Sun out and lovely to see some cricket after a lengthy break
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on August 19, 2019, 04:50:52 PM
Get rid of Woakes and bring in either Sanderson (Northants) or Robinson (Sussex). Both are proven performers currently tearing up county batting line ups. Woakes is a plastic cricketer, over coached.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: IlfordEagle on August 20, 2019, 09:34:19 PM
Get rid of Woakes and bring in either Sanderson (Northants) or Robinson (Sussex). Both are proven performers currently tearing up county batting line ups. Woakes is a plastic cricketer, over coached.
Cannot agree re Woakes, the other 2 are in Div 2 which is a good deal lower standard than Test cricket or even Div 1.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Perov on August 21, 2019, 05:29:03 AM
Get rid of Woakes and bring in either Sanderson (Northants) or Robinson (Sussex). Both are proven performers currently tearing up county batting line ups. Woakes is a plastic cricketer, over coached.

Surprised you think either are better than your lad.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Slogger on August 21, 2019, 06:26:14 AM
I just hope that England don't call up Nat's lad to play at The Oval (perhaps after we've lost the Ashes). That would stuff us. Not having anyone involved with Team England is paying off for us.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 21, 2019, 09:37:31 AM
Get rid of Woakes and bring in either Sanderson (Northants) or Robinson (Sussex). Both are proven performers currently tearing up county batting line ups. Woakes is a plastic cricketer, over coached.

Surprised you think either are better than your lad.

Perhaps Nat's been more prolific than he's let on...?
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on August 21, 2019, 09:53:42 AM
Nope I've strictly cultivated locally. My lad is coming along nicely but Sanderson and/or Robinson are ready to go now. Miles better than Woakes.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Oldhasbeen on August 21, 2019, 12:50:59 PM
I'm surprised Nat's not advocating dropping Archer as well to make space for a couple of D2 medium fast guys.

Woakes home Test record speaks for itself.

No doubt Robbo & Sanderson are decent bowlers, making hay in bowler friendly conditions, not if anyone is going to edge Woakes out it'll be Curran. Lefty, done well at Test level and at 20, likely to improve.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 23, 2019, 01:26:35 AM
Nope I've strictly cultivated locally. My lad is coming along nicely but Sanderson and/or Robinson are ready to go now. Miles better than Woakes.

As is often the case I’m relieved we have knowledgable professional selectors!
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on August 23, 2019, 08:21:37 AM
Nope I've strictly cultivated locally. My lad is coming along nicely but Sanderson and/or Robinson are ready to go now. Miles better than Woakes.

As is often the case I’m relieved we have knowledgable professional selectors!

You can't have seen Woakes bowl yesterday. Better bowlers in the Dog and Duck 3XI.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 23, 2019, 08:26:18 AM
Okay but you can’t judge someone on one performance. He has been outstanding in certain matches whilst Broad has been ineffective.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 23, 2019, 12:20:48 PM
This is an utterly hopeless England batting line up with not one player who is of test standard. I don’t care that they won the World Cup, for me that isn’t real cricket. I get the impression that most of them can’t be bothered to adapt to the longer form of the game because it doesn’t matter to them. Root has been forced to go in at no.3 which I thought was daft as it effectively makes him an opener with what’s ahead of him. Nevertheless he is showing his limitations as a test batsman. Difficult to see anything other than a 3-1 series win to Australia.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on August 23, 2019, 01:10:53 PM
This is an utterly hopeless England batting line up with not one player who is of test standard. I don’t care that they won the World Cup, for me that isn’t real cricket. I get the impression that most of them can’t be bothered to adapt to the longer form of the game because it doesn’t matter to them. Root has been forced to go in at no.3 which I thought was daft as it effectively makes him an opener with what’s ahead of him. Nevertheless he is showing his limitations as a test batsman. Difficult to see anything other than a 3-1 series win to Australia.

You think we'll win a Test?! Only Root and Stokes should be retained of the batsmen. Bring in Curran, Pope, Dent, Foakes....and Cook.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 23, 2019, 01:47:31 PM
Certainly the issues surrounding the openers has now turned into the middle order as well. I suspect that Root will drop the captaincy (no bad thing for him to save his career) the question is who takes over?  Might be an issue of JR not having the forceful personality to deal with some apparently 'strong personalities' in the team. 

With Bayliss on the way out, it would be good for Spoons to be a part of an Ashes winning set-up...unless the ECB repeat what happened to Andy Flower who got the job on the basis that no one else would do it!

The likes of Pope will get their chance I daresay although they don't fill me with much confidence.  It is a rebuild job like the post 2015 World Cup debacle. These rebuilds take time and require a lot of faith to be put into players who don't necessarily look world class at the start of their careers - would Steve Smith have been retained after the 2010/11 Ashes series had he been British?
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 23, 2019, 02:06:14 PM
You think we'll win a Test?!

No, of course not. I don’t know what I was thinking!
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 23, 2019, 02:10:13 PM
I certainly think the likes of Bairstow, Buttler & Roy have to be ditched, far to flaky for test cricket.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: pablo on August 23, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
The obvious answer to all our woes is to introduce a 16.4 over a side tournament taking up the middle of the Summer to include lots of oversees players - copyright ECB. I mean nobody watches this 'proper' cricket anyway. Where's the interest or profit in it?
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: stewyww on August 23, 2019, 03:30:07 PM
Can't see what the problem is. Didn't another side have an identical first innings deficit of 112 runs recently yet still won by three wickets?
Oh, what was their name again....
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 23, 2019, 04:17:38 PM
The obvious answer to all our woes is to introduce a 16.4 over a side tournament taking up the middle of the Summer to include lots of oversees players - copyright ECB. I mean nobody watches this 'proper' cricket anyway. Where's the interest or profit in it?

If nobody watches proper cricket how come all the test matches are practically sold out & there is comprehensive media coverage. We need more 4 day matches in the best months to produce proper test batsmen. If we keep trying to get by with white ball flash harrys  the public will eventually lose interest & test cricket in England & probably worldwide will die.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: pablo on August 23, 2019, 04:48:21 PM
My feeling entirely Bath. By my reckoning nearly half a million people will see this test series in the flesh. How Graves and Harrison cannot see that proficiency in a Test eleven is not of importance ( and under their aegis that have demonstrably sought to bastardise the game) is beyond even me. Then again for a businessman whose fortune is founded on Costcutter, he clearly knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing. How this dubious chancer has been allowed such influence in the game beggars belief. George Dobell's latest article today on Cricinfo says it all and very eloquently.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 23, 2019, 04:59:33 PM
My feeling entirely Bath. By my reckoning nearly half a million people will see this test series in the flesh. How Graves and Harrison cannot see that proficiency in a Test eleven is not of importance ( and under their aegis that have demonstrably sought to bastardise the game) is beyond even me. Then again for a businessman whose fortune is founded on Costcutter, he clearly knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing. How this dubious chancer has been allowed such influence in the game beggars belief. George Dobell's latest article today on Cricinfo says it all and very eloquently.

To be fair, given that we'd never won the World Cup and had made such a mess of our attempts in recent years we needed to put in a 1966-style performance to both get a monkey of our backs and make it a lucrative competition.  Hence the red ball game was sidelined.  Now with a new coach coming in and this Test competition nonsense trying to resurrect 5 day cricket, maybe we'll see an about face...oh, sorry, I forgot that The 16.4 over format is now king.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on August 23, 2019, 05:19:31 PM
The ECB thought/think they can produce a reasonable (not great because that doesn't matter, as longs as the crowds still roll in) Test team on the back of 1 day/bish bash cricket and a marginalised 4 day CC competition.

They were/are wrong. By the time they realise they are wrong it will be too late. Fast forward 10 years and there will only be T20/100 cricket and perhaps some 50 over stuff.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: IlfordEagle on August 23, 2019, 07:24:22 PM
The ECB thought/think they can produce a reasonable (not great because that doesn't matter, as longs as the crowds still roll in) Test team on the back of 1 day/bish bash cricket and a marginalised 4 day CC competition.

They were/are wrong. By the time they realise they are wrong it will be too late. Fast forward 10 years and there will only be T20/100 cricket and perhaps some 50 over stuff.

Sad to say but you are right, Kent's Captain (Billings) lamented the other day about a round of CC matches being inserted in between white ball cricket & he was right, the players generally were still in white ball mode & techniques in batting were generally poor, certainly few on either side in our match had the nous to survive, those that did grafted long & hard for their scores. The England team in the short term won't improve much if at all, the next generation need coaching how to play properly rather than slog slog cross batted all the time but I am not over hopeful.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: pablo on August 23, 2019, 08:17:50 PM
I don't quite understand why most genuine cricket supporters of the red ball or 50 over game don't put up more of a fight against this constant undermining of the best formats in the game. I for one won't even contemplate watching the 100 ball nonsense let alone pay to see it and there must be ten of thousands of supporters who feel the same. A boycott may have some impact. Some County Chairmen need to grow a backbone. Our Chairman (who I have a lot of time for) said at the recent fans lunchtime forum and I quote, 'We must all hope that the 100 is a success.' Why? Shouldn't he and his colleagues vociferously trumpet the success of the Bash, the retention of a strong 50 over competition in a year where we have won the World Cup, and a strengthening, not an undermining, of the 4 day game. A £1.3 million one off payment will soon be a distant memory.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on August 23, 2019, 08:26:52 PM
It all comes down to money...the filthy lucre. All the counties think about is short term finance...how to feed the many mouths.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Slogger on August 23, 2019, 08:46:03 PM
I agree with Billings. Far better this year to complete the championship by mid August and then pack in the T20 competition with lots played across the Bank Holiday weekend.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on August 23, 2019, 08:51:36 PM
I agree with Billings. Far better this year to complete the championship by mid August and then pack in the T20 competition with lots played across the Bank Holiday weekend.
No chance. What happens if you get a sell of bad weather?!
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Slogger on August 23, 2019, 09:38:31 PM
Bad weather can hit at any time.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 24, 2019, 06:06:25 AM
Baylis has been a success for the white ball game but a disaster for the test team .Hopefully his successor will have a more pragmatic approach. Some hopes!
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 24, 2019, 12:24:56 PM
It’s incredible that whilst we haven’t got one test batsman Australia lose Smith only to find another one equally effective to take his place
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: nat on August 24, 2019, 07:35:03 PM
It’s incredible that whilst we haven’t got one test batsman Australia lose Smith only to find another one equally effective to take his place
Effective if you drop him 4 times.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 25, 2019, 06:25:43 AM
It’s incredible that whilst we haven’t got one test batsman Australia lose Smith only to find another one equally effective to take his place
Effective if you drop him 4 times.

Yes, that certainly helps. Anyway, despite that bit of resistance far to late I expect us to collapse like a pack of cards today.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: LeedsExile on August 25, 2019, 08:40:48 AM
Yesterday on TMS Agnew and Vaughan went on at great length about how the ECB had prioritised one day stuff at the expense of the test team. They repeated a lot of the points frequently made by message boarders on here. It was refreshing to hear "our" views given some airtime. Therefore I hope England do not pull off a miraculous win because the powers that be will just sit back and say all is well when we all no it clearly is not.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 25, 2019, 09:33:00 AM
Absolutely. The same was said by both Bob Willis & Jonathan Trott on The Debate. The trouble is that the main driver is money, but to what end?  Is it to develop young cricketers or players of a cross between rounders & baseball, an entirely different game. Vast numbers enjoy &  watch test cricket.
IT MUST NOT BE SIDELINED.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: essexfan548 on August 25, 2019, 09:39:39 AM
Why have these 'experts' just woken up?

We've been saying this for years on here :)
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: mawallace on August 25, 2019, 10:54:36 AM
Yea, the likes of Vaughan has been trumpeting the one day studf for so long.  Won't be better next year.  This from the Telegraph

Quote
The system under the Take a look at workforce is rotten and can solely change into worse because the ECB places its assets into the Hundred. A draft schedule for subsequent summer season seen by Telegraph Sport exhibits county championship cricket once more shoehorned into April and September when pitches are juicy early season and drained on the finish. The odd championship sport dropped into June and July solely makes issues extra complicated.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 25, 2019, 01:15:36 PM
Collapse was delayed but is now underway!
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 25, 2019, 03:07:14 PM
Too many ‘vested interests’ in the media coverage of the game nowadays. The likes of Vaughan have complained about the lack of home grown coaches for The Hundred - hardly surprising given that most of our retired ‘talent’ takes the easy way out instead of coaching counties.

Get rid of the ex-players - their ‘insights’ are usually obvious, and we know that this is something anyone can do, even those on this BB. Apparently.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: neil on August 25, 2019, 03:31:25 PM
Collapse was delayed but is now underway!

Made it much more interesting though!

Jeez - what a finish. Stokes unbelievable  but huge plaudits to Leach for hanging on in there with him.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 25, 2019, 03:38:40 PM
 I am SO SO SO pleased to be proved wrong. An unbelievable win. Massive congrats to Ben Stokes!
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 25, 2019, 03:42:27 PM
The win was never in doubt. Now excuse me, but Myleen Klass keeps pestering me with texts protestating of undying affection, which is getting slightly irritating.

Well done Jack Leach. Proves that the 92 wasn’t a one off. Can’t understand why the selectors preferred Ali for the first test, who was mentally shot. Thought Ed Smith is meant to be an ‘intellectual’???
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: IlfordEagle on August 25, 2019, 03:46:55 PM
Wow what a finish very much against the odds, huge congrats to Stokes for his innings & also to Leach for showing some of his so called betters up the order how to bat. For those who think red ball cricket is dying just watch the highlights of this Test for your answer. Strange how the Aussies manage to adapt to different formats far more easily than we do.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Slogger on August 25, 2019, 07:26:21 PM
Tremendous stuff. My worry is that with Roy having been exposed by the Aussie attack that England try to persuade a highly experienced test opener out of retirement for the next two games.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Andy on August 25, 2019, 08:57:07 PM
Tremendous stuff. My worry is that with Roy having been exposed by the Aussie attack that England try to persuade a highly experienced test opener out of retirement for the next two games.

Doubt it personally, Chef's not pulling out great performances.  Sibley would be next in line - the Aussies having worked out Chef some time ago.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: pablo on August 26, 2019, 07:54:06 AM
I too have heard all the comments by Willis, Vaughan,Trott et al. All of them criticised scheduling but none have explicitly condemned the 100, its concept or its introduction, partly because Willis ( who is never wrong!!) has for years wanted to reduce the number of counties to 8 -10 at a push- and Vaughan, Swann and others agree. The City franchises are of course a potential way of creating this by the back door. What's more falling out with the ECB is never a good idea for those commenting on the sport. They know where their bread is buttered.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: LeedsExile on August 26, 2019, 10:43:16 AM
Precisely Pablo. I was surprised that such comments were made because the commentators usually pursue their own agendas. Anyway after yesterday everything will now be deemed to be rosy in the ECB garden.
Title: Re: Ashes -2019
Post by: Bath Hammer on August 27, 2019, 01:22:07 AM
Anyway after yesterday everything will now be deemed to be rosy in the ECB garden.

Absolutely. We all know that what Stokes did in the 2nd innings was stupendous & credit has to go to Leech but that was the minimum expected from Root & Bairstow after a string of failures. Alex Stewart was pretending that virtually everything in the garden is rosy & any failures were down to mindset. I still reckon this batting lineup will fail more often than it succeeds & the schedule is a principal cause.