Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: Gilders on February 01, 2019, 05:58:16 PM
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Grassy wicket especially on day 1. Still doing plenty on day 2.
Although he isn't quick, I think Porter would have done well on it - would have had it jagging around off the seam off a fullish length.
Places for seamers are blocked however by a mixture of the veterans and the all-rounders, making it hard for the next generation to break into the team - not just Porter but others like Archer Stone Overton Bailey.
I think it's particularly tough on Jamie who was called into the Test squad in 2018 bit didn't get a game all summer despite favourable conditions and despite being hailed by Ed Smith as the best bowler in CC cricket over the past 3 years.
All the pundits' rhetoric is about needing more pace in the team to match Windies and Aussies like for like. My point is if you are really good you don't need to be that quick - for example Vernon Philander or Mike Hendrick or Glenn McGrath or Jimmy Anderson or Matthew Hoggard or Ryan Sidebottom.
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Agree about Porter but this wicket is unusual, good for cricket but unusual. Porter has yet to prove he can be effective on flat decks, which are unfortunately the norm in Test cricket. Of the other English bowlers you mention I like Bailey. Stone is another injury-prone bowler and the others are not yet good enough.
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Grassy wicket especially on day 1. Still doing plenty on day 2.
Although he isn't quick, I think Porter would have done well on it - would have had it jagging around off the seam off a fullish length.
Places for seamers are blocked however by a mixture of the veterans and the all-rounders, making it hard for the next generation to break into the team - not just Porter but others like Archer Stone Overton Bailey.
I think it's particularly tough on Jamie who was called into the Test squad in 2018 bit didn't get a game all summer despite favourable conditions and despite being hailed by Ed Smith as the best bowler in CC cricket over the past 3 years.
All the pundits' rhetoric is about needing more pace in the team to match Windies and Aussies like for like. My point is if you are really good you don't need to be that quick - for example Vernon Philander or Mike Hendrick or Glenn McGrath or Jimmy Anderson or Matthew Hoggard or Ryan Sidebottom.
Problem for Porter and anybody else who has aspirations to play international cricket. Is not only do you need to look like your good enough, you also need to look like your good enough at the right time. If you think back to Sir Alistair on his debut he was producing the goods like Porter is now, but only got a game because of someone else's misfortune. Porter's ability with the bat may need to improve in addition to at least maintaining his levels as a bowler, if he wishes to get the attention of the selectors. I'm not sure especially with the current England squad that having just one main function will help his chances.
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Jamie's a good bowler but I'm not convinced he'd do well in the Windies. Look how Sam Curran is struggling to make an impact; Jamie's a little faster but no more. Is he really a better bowler than Woakes? And he's nowhere near as good a bat as Woakes or Curran. True, Jason Holder isn't that much faster than Curran but at 6'7" he has other strengths.
Jamie may well have dodged a bullet missing this winter's tours, though IMHO he's got a good chance of making the Test team next summer if there are some seamer-friendly conditions and/or some oldie fitness issues, or the selectors feel experimental against Ireland. . Jimmy can't go on for ever, a lot of punters see Jamie as his successor.
re the pace issue, not all seamers have to be express pace, but, outside the Indian subcontinent, without some real pace in the attack you're gonna struggle bowling out top Test teams. Nasser put it very well on Sky when he talked about the need for a class "X-factor" bowler, a leggie or paceman, in the attack, and pointed out how hard it was to know who was up to it until you gave candidates a decent crack in the Test arena - he pointed out the slating the selectors got for persisting with Steve Harmison and Simon Jones years back; I'll confess that after he'd played a few Tests, I gave my opinion that Harmy was the worst fast bowler ever to play for England, not even that good for Durham, and should be dumped immediately. (I was reminded of this numerous times when Harmy was number one in the world rankings)
I'd have liked to seen Ollie Stone given a chance, as part of a 4-man seam attack, although I've only seen a little of him. He looked pretty scary.
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We'd all like to see Stone bowling. That's the problem, can't stay fit for more than 5 minutes.
I'll 'big up' Ben Sanderson again, another good start to the season will/should see him in the frame for a Test match.
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We'd all like to see Stone bowling. That's the problem, can't stay fit for more than 5 minutes.
I'll 'big up' Ben Sanderson again, another good start to the season will/should see him in the frame for a Test match.
I haven't seen Sanderson. If he gets a good start to the season, he's in with a big shout - if not quite as big a shout as any opener who can crack a few early season centuries.
I thought our guys bowled very well, especially Broad, and were very unlucky, one of the commentators counted over 100 play-and-misses. As for the batting, though....
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I’d like to see someone like Sanderson come through...he’s not followed the usual route of being born abroad, coming to study here in a posh school, then having a couple of good seasons (plus a good agent) then whisked off to Team England and an IPL contract...
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I’d like to see someone like Sanderson come through...he’s not followed the usual route of being born abroad, coming to study here in a posh school, then having a couple of good seasons (plus a good agent) then whisked off to Team England and an IPL contract...
:) :) :) :)
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The bigger problem is clearly with the batting though where we go with that is anyone's guess but will clearly be solved by the 100 ball competition ! It's clear too that Root , Buttler et al's warm up in the Big Bash and elsewhere has been an ideal preparation for this test series.
If you are centrally contracted by England you should play for England and nobody else until that contract comes to an end. If they don't like it we could play county players who are never likely to be auctioned to anybody. They could hardly have done worse than this lot!
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The bigger problem is clearly with the batting though where we go with that is anyone's guess but will clearly be solved by the 100 ball competition ! It's clear too that Root , Buttler et al's warm up in the Big Bash and elsewhere has been an ideal preparation for this test series.
If you are centrally contracted by England you should play for England and nobody else until that contract comes to an end. If they don't like it we could play county players who are never likely to be auctioned to anybody. They could hardly have done worse than this lot!
The likes of Stokes, Bairstow, Jennings, Denly, Ali etc who didn't warm up in the Big Bash hardly did that much better. Buttler was our leading Test run scorer in the 2018 summer and his preparation was playing in the IPL. I'm not sure why playing white ball cricket should be any worse than playing no cricket at all. The problem is more the lack of proper warm up matches before the 1st test.
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We'd all like to see Stone bowling. That's the problem, can't stay fit for more than 5 minutes.
I'll 'big up' Ben Sanderson again, another good start to the season will/should see him in the frame for a Test match.
I haven't seen Sanderson. If he gets a good start to the season, he's in with a big shout - if not quite as big a shout as any opener who can crack a few early season centuries.
I thought our guys bowled very well, especially Broad, and were very unlucky, one of the commentators counted over 100 play-and-misses. As for the batting, though....
He's not been picked for England Lions which suggests he's not that close. I'm not sure taking wickets early season in Division 2 would make that much difference either. Unless you have something a bit different like someone like Ollie Stone with his extra pace did last year, I'm not sure Div 2 wickets are particularly important.
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Well Div 2 runs are deemed important! (Denly).
Sanderson is good enough to get a lot of Div 1 wickets, a much better bowler than Gleeson who has gone to Lanky.
When have I ever let you down with my analysis?
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Well Div 2 runs are deemed important! (Denly).
Sanderson is good enough to get a lot of Div 1 wickets, a much better bowler than Gleeson who has gone to Lanky.
When have I ever let you down with my analysis?
#SimonHarmer
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Well Div 2 runs are deemed important! (Denly).
Sanderson is good enough to get a lot of Div 1 wickets, a much better bowler than Gleeson who has gone to Lanky.
When have I ever let you down with my analysis?
Denly averaged less than 35 last year, although he did get 3 centuries. His selection was more to do with his white ball form and a hunch from Ed Smith than div 2 runs. Also the total lack of any division 1 openers scoring any runs. That's why Jennings was picked as well.
Maybe Sanderson is good enough to take div 1 wickets. I'm certainly not saying he's not but the likes of Porter, Coad, Bailey, Gregory and the Overtons who do take div 1 wickets are well ahead of him I'd have thought.
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a hunch from Ed Smith
Kent bias you mean.
Even the Cheat might get a go at this rate which will at least afford some schadenfreude.
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Graves and others have prioritised white ball cricket. The players prioritise white ball cricket. The domestic season is prioritised around it and will soon be more so. You get what you sow ( and something tells me we won't win the World Cup either !)
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Graves and others have prioritised white ball cricket. The players prioritise white ball cricket. The domestic season is prioritised around it and will soon be more so. You get what you sow ( and something tells me we won't win the World Cup either !)
Yes. I fear that we'll end up with neither Ashes or WC trophies...frankly, I would be quite happy. It's got to the stage that Graves and the ECB are a huge threat to the longer term future of the game. The only way to get rid of them is to show the (bad) fruits of their policies.
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Roll on the time when Jofra Archer can play for Eng in both red & white ball cricket, he is quick & can bat & also fields well, I cannot understand why Ben Coad isn't near the Eng team yet, he is at least Porter's equal but again cannot bat. Bailey too is decent & can't be far away.
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Roll on the time when Jofra Archer can play for Eng in both red & white ball cricket, he is quick & can bat & also fields well, I cannot understand why Ben Coad isn't near the Eng team yet, he is at least Porter's equal but again cannot bat. Bailey too is decent & can't be far away.
He's not that quick, about the same pace as Porter. He has the same problem Porter does in that they're unlikely to play in the same team as Anderson. They may play in England but not abroad.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/47175439
Jennings back. He must be the luckiest player in England history. His record against anything other than spin is horrible. Honestly Mickleburgh would be no worse!
Harsh on Foakes but it's the best balance to the side having Bairstow back in the middle order and keeping. We need to pick a specialist opener and number 3 next summer to go with Burns.
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I think I’ll sleep on the suggestion of Mickleburgh being no worse
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I think I’ll sleep on the suggestion of Mickleburgh being no worse
https://inews.co.uk/sport/cricket/england-cricket-west-indies-stats-keaton-jennings-jonny-bairstow/
Keaton Jennings’s average against pace bowling in Tests sunk a little further to 16.9 – the worst pace-average of the 197 top-six batsmen who have faced seam in 20 or more innings since 2001
It's impossible to average much worse than 16.9!
No team is going to be stupid enough to bowl spin at him again.
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I bet Jaik could have given it a good go though
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/47175439
Jennings back. He must be the luckiest player in England history. His record against anything other than spin is horrible. Honestly Mickleburgh would be no worse!
Harsh on Foakes but it's the best balance to the side having Bairstow back in the middle order and keeping. We need to pick a specialist opener and number 3 next summer to go with Burns.
I'd rather we dropped Buttler. We've got too many dashers, Foakes is a more orthodox bat, and our best keeper.
I assume Woakes isn't fit, otherwise surely he'd be ahead of Curran for this one?
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I think I’ll sleep on the suggestion of Mickleburgh being no worse
https://inews.co.uk/sport/cricket/england-cricket-west-indies-stats-keaton-jennings-jonny-bairstow/
Keaton Jennings’s average against pace bowling in Tests sunk a little further to 16.9 – the worst pace-average of the 197 top-six batsmen who have faced seam in 20 or more innings since 2001
It's impossible to average much worse than 16.9!
No team is going to be stupid enough to bowl spin at him again.
Clearly we need to bat Keaton at 8. Perhaps he can job share with Moeen Ali.
Snowflake generation brought up on flat tracks in white ball cricket where there’s no seam. Take away their PlayStations and get them focused upon books. Perhaps a tome or two about how to bat for 10 days at a time by the late lamented Geoffrey Truman.
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"It's impossible to average much worse than 16.9!"
Well, KJ's average against seam is even lower now after eight of the most torturous runs in Test Match history. An I'll wager that his average will drop even further after his next, and final, Test innings.
I do feel sorry for the guy, by all accounts he works extremely hard at his game but he just doesn't have the ability.
There's a good, and grimly amusing, analysis of KJ's woes on cricbuzz:
https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/106609/england-tour-of-west-indies-cricket-the-curious-case-of-keaton-jennings
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I'm a little fed up with the KJ kicking. Clearly he has problems against the new ball with anything above fast medium. Clearly, bringing him back in for this match was not ideal for him and I appreciate that not all are kicking him specifically, but when you have Ali who was once an opener but also fills his pants rather than his boots when faced with a little chin music down at 8 and Johnny Bairstow going a bit, well, loco you do wonder what's going on in Ed Smith's (apparently) huge brain.
Chef's rather clueless point about the better selection for this test suggests that he perhaps shouldn't be commentating on a team that he is too close to - we don't want Boycottesque moronic criticisms, but some realism.
Pound to a penny Chef will be back for England this season...either that or he'll drop out of the game altogether as he's so insightful - plus he's probably worked out that its money for old rope.
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I'm a little fed up with the KJ kicking. Clearly he has problems against the new ball with anything above fast medium. Clearly, bringing him back in for this match was not ideal for him and I appreciate that not all are kicking him specifically, but when you have Ali who was once an opener but also fills his pants rather than his boots when faced with a little chin music down at 8 and Johnny Bairstow going a bit, well, loco you do wonder what's going on in Ed Smith's (apparently) huge brain.
Chef's rather clueless point about the better selection for this test suggests that he perhaps shouldn't be commentating on a team that he is too close to - we don't want Boycottesque moronic criticisms, but some realism.
Pound to a penny Chef will be back for England this season...either that or he'll drop out of the game altogether as he's so insightful - plus he's probably worked out that its money for old rope.
The selection is better. Others have said similar including Atherton. The side looks better balanced and atleast this time the top 3 managed to bat 30 overs to set a platform for Buttler and Stokes rather than them coming in after 10 overs. They obviously don't have the right personnel on the tour and need better than Jennings and Denly but picking people in their right positions is a start.
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I'm a little fed up with the KJ kicking. Clearly he has problems against the new ball with anything above fast medium. Clearly, bringing him back in for this match was not ideal for him and I appreciate that not all are kicking him specifically, but when you have Ali who was once an opener but also fills his pants rather than his boots when faced with a little chin music down at 8 and Johnny Bairstow going a bit, well, loco you do wonder what's going on in Ed Smith's (apparently) huge brain.
Chef's rather clueless point about the better selection for this test suggests that he perhaps shouldn't be commentating on a team that he is too close to - we don't want Boycottesque moronic criticisms, but some realism.
Pound to a penny Chef will be back for England this season...either that or he'll drop out of the game altogether as he's so insightful - plus he's probably worked out that its money for old rope.
Agree. Apparently KJ has a father (Ray Jennings ex SA) who is rather demanding. May explain his intense/stiff approach to batting.
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The selection is better. Others have said similar including Atherton. The side looks better balanced and atleast this time the top 3 managed to bat 30 overs to set a platform for Buttler and Stokes rather than them coming in after 10 overs. They obviously don't have the right personnel on the tour and need better than Jennings and Denly but picking people in their right positions is a start.
I agree the selection of the squad leaves little room for manoeuvre. However Foakes is a better bat that KJ, yet is brought back immediately.
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Agree. Apparently KJ has a father (Ray Jennings ex SA) who is rather demanding. May explain his intense/stiff approach to batting.
Sounds like another Nasser or Ramps. Maybe he needs to play more on harder bouncier wickets. Certainly he’d enjoy the Bunsens at Old Trafford.
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We don't know how Jennings plays since he left Durham, but we used to watch him regularly battling away at one end while the wickets tumbled at the other, wondering why nobody could stick around with him.
Of course, that doesn't mean he could do it at test level.
Lynda and Steve