Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: essexfan548 on October 25, 2018, 06:36:39 PM
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/45984456
"Surrey wicketkeeper Ben Foakes has been called up to England's Test squad on the tour of Sri Lanka as cover for the injured Jonny Bairstow.
Bairstow, 29, has ankle ligament damage sustained playing football in training and will miss Saturday's Twenty20 match with Sri Lanka.
It is not yet clear if he will return for the first of three Test matches, starting on 6 November.
Foakes, 25, is scheduled to arrive in Colombo this weekend."
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Foster is still a a better gloveman than Foakes... and I'd argue still a better batsman. Never have I seen a more overrated player than Foakes.
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Foster whilst still a good keeper, peaked 2 or 3 years ago and is now in decline.
Foakes is still improving, and is now the best contracted gloveman in the country.
Given that Foakes has a better batting average than Foster in:
a) First Class
b) List A
c) T/20.
I think you are being a tad harsh on Foakes.
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Foster is still a a better gloveman than Foakes... and I'd argue still a better batsman. Never have I seen a more overrated player than Foakes.
Not any more. Not for a couple of seasons at least. However, Foster should've played much more for England in the past...whether Foakes is overrated, well we would swap him for AW wouldn't we?
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Foster is still a a better gloveman than Foakes... and I'd argue still a better batsman. Never have I seen a more overrated player than Foakes.
Not any more. Not for a couple of seasons at least. However, Foster should've played much more for England in the past...whether Foakes is overrated, well we would swap him for AW wouldn't we?
Damned with faint praise.
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Foster is still a a better gloveman than Foakes... and I'd argue still a better batsman. Never have I seen a more overrated player than Foakes.
Not any more. Not for a couple of seasons at least. However, Foster should've played much more for England in the past...whether Foakes is overrated, well we would swap him for AW wouldn't we?
Damned with faint praise.
AW may not be keeping or scoring the runs that JF did in his pomp, but his keeping is OK.
We were spoiled by having JF available so much - if he'd been away with Team England, his performances would've been not as good. Just look at Cook's somewhat erratic run scoring especially when combining both 1-day and Test roles.
We might have to wait a while before we have such a good keeper/batsman again.
Indeed, JF was the best keeper/batsman in the club's history IMHO. Admittedly. whilst having useful keepers, we haven't had the likes of Godfrey Evans, Jim Parks or Alan Knott, BUT I don't consider that damning with feint praise...
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Foster was the best Essex keeper I've seen since I started watching in 1972. The late Fred Root started watching in the late 1920s and told me Foster was the best he had seen.
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Foster was the best Essex keeper I've seen since I started watching in 1972. The late Fred Root started watching in the late 1920s and told me Foster was the best he had seen.
I presume you're not referring to the ex-Test bowler who died in the 1950s??
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No Fred was a stalwart member from Braintree who lived into his 90s and died about ten years ago. He told me Gooch was the best Essex player he'd seen
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Foster is the best W/k I've ever seen for Essex & I have watched us since 1968, Foakes has improved a lot especially in the last 2/3 years, his batting is also solid & consistent, he bats anywhere between 5 & 8 & is trusted (& good enough) to look after the tail, he also gets valuable 1 day runs & has acquired the knack of scoring them at a good rate, he has earned his call up.
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No Fred was a stalwart member from Braintree who lived into his 90s and died about ten years ago. He told me Gooch was the best Essex player he'd seen
Indeed.
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Ben Foakes makes test debut for England.
Looks the goods, stated the commentary ! Well at least he made it to lunch !
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Ben Foakes makes test debut for England.
Looks the goods, stated the commentary ! Well at least he made it to lunch !
Made it to dinner...or whatever you call the evening meal! Good luck to him - if nothing else, it's a reminder that there's more talent out there than this clique of Bairstow/Buttler/Stokes etc.
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What a great day's Test cricket. I switched on at 99-4 and expected c180 all out, but great stuff by the second half of the batting, showing the top boys (esp. Mo & Stokes) how to do it.
Stokes - about the worst shot I've seen by a Test batsman all year
Mo - if he's a Test number 3, I'm a banana.
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Mo - if he's a Test number 3, I'm a banana.
Don't stay out in the sun too long - you might peel ;)
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IIRC the ECB or whoever runs the Test side nowadays told us and Foakes that they wanted him to get more F/c experience. This was around the time, again IIRC, that our then Chairman made it clear that no way was he going to argue about anything with Fozzie. So Foakes moved to Surrey.
The good bit is that he started with us, so we still get some money from the ECB for encouraging him. As we do with Topley Jnr, and would with Mills if he ever played representative cricket again.
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our then Chairman made it clear that no way was he going to argue about anything with Fozzie.
Arguing like winning is overrated. ;)
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our then Chairman made it clear that no way was he going to argue about anything with Fozzie.
Arguing like winning is overrated. ;)
Surprised to find you supporting the ancien regime, VP! Have you decided that PG really was a good coach?
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our then Chairman made it clear that no way was he going to argue about anything with Fozzie.
Arguing like winning is overrated. ;)
Surprised to find you supporting the ancien regime, VP! Have you decided that PG really was a good coach?
Please please .... don't.
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Pleased for Foakes having a fine debut with a well put together century, he has certainly matured very well since joining Sorry, batting as he does so often for Sorry when they do struggle ie looking after the tail etc & doing well behind the stumps as well. One benefit for Essex is that if he continues like this he may well become an Eng regular as well as Sam Curran & Rory Burns which will weaken Sorry substantially & benefit us. It might also wake up any Eng players who are complacent about their places.
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It was quite amusing last night listening to Ebony Rainford on The Debate saying how Foakes was a great credit to the development of young talent at Surrey.
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Surprised to find you supporting the ancien regime, VP!
Hardly.
Just having a (another) sly dig at the deadbeats that used to run the club.
Although to be fair to Grayson he did at least mount the pretence of a T20 campaign.
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It was quite amusing last night listening to Ebony Rainford on The Debate saying how Foakes was a great credit to the development of young talent at Surrey.
Foakes has come on leaps & bounds at Surrey.
Laughable at it seems now most of us were sadder to see Wheater to go at the time.
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It was quite amusing last night listening to Ebony Rainford on The Debate saying how Foakes was a great credit to the development of young talent at Surrey.
Has anyone corrected her...?
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Foakes has come on leaps & bounds at Surrey.
Laughable at it seems now most of us were sadder to see Wheater to go at the time.
Not sure about that...at the time of his debut, I thought Wheater was being turned into a keeper whereas Foakes was always a keeper. However I was sad that we seemed to unfortunately be blessed with 3 keepers who could bat at the same time: I was castigated for suggesting we dump Foster, which was understandable given the latter's ongoing performance.
Maybe if Wheater had stayed with us he would've done better, but overall it goes to show that talent management is a tricky thing and not an exact science.
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It was quite amusing last night listening to Ebony Rainford on The Debate saying how Foakes was a great credit to the development of young talent at Surrey.
She'll be telling us next that Morkel is a home-grown talent.
Steve
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To be fair when Foakes went to Surrey he couldn’t get in the side. Was kept out by the exceptional talent that was Gary Wilson.
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Foakes has come on leaps & bounds at Surrey.
Laughable at it seems now most of us were sadder to see Wheater to go at the time.
Not sure about that...at the time of his debut, I thought Wheater was being turned into a keeper whereas Foakes was always a keeper. However I was sad that we seemed to unfortunately be blessed with 3 keepers who could bat at the same time: I was castigated for suggesting we dump Foster, which was understandable given the latter's ongoing performance.
Maybe if Wheater had stayed with us he would've done better, but overall it goes to show that talent management is a tricky thing and not an exact science.
I don’t think Wheater was ever 'turned into' a keeper; IIRC that’s what he wanted to be. You were right about having three keepers who could bat; there are, after all, only 19 F/c jobs for wicketkeepers in the country, or 20 if one counts Scotland!
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I don’t think Wheater was ever 'turned into' a keeper; IIRC that’s what he wanted to be. You were right about having three keepers who could bat; there are, after all, only 19 F/c jobs for wicketkeepers in the country, or 20 if one counts Scotland!
Perhaps Foakes looked a natural keeper and AW was a bit more workmanlike... It is noticeable how BF's keeping has been singled out as being a level above the other two keepers in the Test team, so that's not to say AW can't/shouldn't keep at County level.
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Re Adam Wheater, I wonder if now the shadow of JF has now been removed Adam may now blossom into an extremely reliable & consistent keeper, the role is now his to keep & whilst Pepper may push him in future years he is clearly not yet ready, perhaps judge Adam again after a season or 2 as undisputed No 1
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Re Adam Wheater, I wonder if now the shadow of JF has now been removed Adam may now blossom into an extremely reliable & consistent keeper, the role is now his to keep & whilst Pepper may push him in future years he is clearly not yet ready, perhaps judge Adam again after a season or 2 as undisputed No 1
Maybe. Certainly I felt strange how Flossie was being eased out of the club a couple of years back...all that blurb about his starting a new career as a coach at his old school. I guess we’ll just see how things (and players) change next year. Buttleman seems to be a better keeper, perhaps he’ll be the one to push Wheater rather than Pepper?
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What's the odds of Foster joining Surrey as cover for Foakes?
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Unlikely given Pope is a keeper. But if he gets in England squads who knows.
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Unlikely given Pope is a keeper. But if he gets in England squads who knows.
Maybe as keeping coach? But keeping his gloves in his car boot like Taylor in case of an emergency...
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Foakes had an outstanding match & I do hope they retain him at aswucket keeper at least for the time being. Bairstow needs to fight for a batting slot & not constantly winge about being WK. Players should by now have learnt not to play football prior to tests. He only has himself to blame.
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Foakes had an outstanding match & I do hope they retain him at aswucket keeper at least for the time being. Bairstow needs to fight for a batting slot & not constantly winge about being WK. Players should by now have learnt not to play football prior to tests. He only has himself to blame.
I worry for JB. Doesn't seem a particularly happy character.
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Foakes had an outstanding match & I do hope they retain him at aswucket keeper at least for the time being. Bairstow needs to fight for a batting slot & not constantly winge about being WK. Players should by now have learnt not to play football prior to tests. He only has himself to blame.
I worry for JB. Doesn't seem a particularly happy character.
Well, given what happened in his family, I'm not that surprised. Whether he's played a bit too much cricket - he might be injured for the odd test but he's still going on all these tours. The England schedule is pretty packed nowadays, that's why Chef improved (somewhat) after losing the 1-day captaincy and focusing on Tests.
Of course, JB is a Yorkshireman. The only no-miserable Yorkies I can think of are Dickie Bird, Charlie Williams and...well that's it.
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On the subject of Essex wicket keepers, I read in the current "Cricketer" magazine that Rodney Cass died in August. He played for Essex in the 60's and then moved to Worcester. I remember being disappointed that he left and he always seemed to do very well playing against Essex for Worcester. I think I recall him playing a decisive part in a Worcester John Player win against us at Harlow.
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On the subject of Essex wicket keepers, I read in the current "Cricketer" magazine that Rodney Cass died in August. He played for Essex in the 60's and then moved to Worcester. I remember being disappointed that he left and he always seemed to do very well playing against Essex for Worcester. I think I recall him playing a decisive part in a Worcester John Player win against us at Harlow.
Well i saw RC almost single handedly bat Worcs to a win vs Essex in a rain affected JPL match at Chelmsford in the 1970s.
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On the subject of Essex wicket keepers, I read in the current "Cricketer" magazine that Rodney Cass died in August. He played for Essex in the 60's and then moved to Worcester. I remember being disappointed that he left and he always seemed to do very well playing against Essex for Worcester. I think I recall him playing a decisive part in a Worcester John Player win against us at Harlow.
Sad to hear about GR Cass, had a solid career at Worcs. The club couldn't afford two keepers at the time, hence he left mid-season. Probably didn't want to play second fiddle to Tonker either. The second half of the 1960s was a shambolic period in ECCC's history.
Another ECCC Yorkshire keeper: Neil Smith and Paul Gibb being two others that come to mind who've had an important role.
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On the subject of Essex wicket keepers, I read in the current "Cricketer" magazine that Rodney Cass died in August. He played for Essex in the 60's and then moved to Worcester. I remember being disappointed that he left and he always seemed to do very well playing against Essex for Worcester. I think I recall him playing a decisive part in a Worcester John Player win against us at Harlow.
Well i saw RC almost single handedly bat Worcs to a win vs Essex in a rain affected JPL match at Chelmsford in the 1970s.
Remember it also, one of those silly games where the average run rate for Essex meant Worcs had a relatively low target to chase & I seem to recall Cass belting it everywhere in appalling light.
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Does Essex get a payment for bringing Ben Foakes into the international scene? Heard Tuffers and Vaughn last night saying that he'd been chosen for international cricket from an early age
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I thought at the time that Foakes doing well in Sri Lanka was not really a great thing as in conditions outside the sub continent, where we need more seamers, having him in the team unbalances it. We looked a very well balanced side when we beat the best team in the world, India, 4-1 with 4 seamers and 2 spinners and now we are basically leaving our 2nd best bowler out in order to pick a wicketkeeper to bat at 8 when there are already 2 keepers in the side already. Of course it's not Foakes fault we were 77 all out but Broad would have bowled well on that pitch and Curran is a better batsman than a bowler and should be batting higher than 9 anyway.
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I thought at the time that Foakes doing well in Sri Lanka was not really a great thing as in conditions outside the sub continent, where we need more seamers, having him in the team unbalances it. We looked a very well balanced side when we beat the best team in the world, India, 4-1 with 4 seamers and 2 spinners and now we are basically leaving our 2nd best bowler out in order to pick a wicketkeeper to bat at 8 when there are already 2 keepers in the side already. Of course it's not Foakes fault we were 77 all out but Broad would have bowled well on that pitch and Curran is a better batsman than a bowler and should be batting higher than 9 anyway.
Pity Foakes didn't get more runs...might have made JB and JB look to their laurels: although the innings as a whole was a bit more Chuckle brothers than Laurel and Hardy.
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I thought at the time that Foakes doing well in Sri Lanka was not really a great thing as in conditions outside the sub continent, where we need more seamers, having him in the team unbalances it. We looked a very well balanced side when we beat the best team in the world, India, 4-1 with 4 seamers and 2 spinners and now we are basically leaving our 2nd best bowler out in order to pick a wicketkeeper to bat at 8 when there are already 2 keepers in the side already. Of course it's not Foakes fault we were 77 all out but Broad would have bowled well on that pitch and Curran is a better batsman than a bowler and should be batting higher than 9 anyway.
Pity Foakes didn't get more runs...might have made JB and JB look to their laurels: although the innings as a whole was a bit more Chuckle brothers than Laurel and Hardy.
That's another fine mess you've got us into, Rooty.
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I thought at the time that Foakes doing well in Sri Lanka was not really a great thing as in conditions outside the sub continent, where we need more seamers, having him in the team unbalances it. We looked a very well balanced side when we beat the best team in the world, India, 4-1 with 4 seamers and 2 spinners and now we are basically leaving our 2nd best bowler out in order to pick a wicketkeeper to bat at 8 when there are already 2 keepers in the side already. Of course it's not Foakes fault we were 77 all out but Broad would have bowled well on that pitch and Curran is a better batsman than a bowler and should be batting higher than 9 anyway.
Pity Foakes didn't get more runs...might have made JB and JB look to their laurels: although the innings as a whole was a bit more Chuckle brothers than Laurel and Hardy.
That's another fine mess you've got us into, Rooty.
Boom, boom!
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Amazing that Eng have arguably the best WK (Foakes) in their team but he unbalances the side, agree that Curran should bat higher certainly at 8 & probably 7 as he does for Surrey, maybe the solution is to drop Mooen, his 'runs' won't be missed or Rashis whose bowling won't be either!