Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: IlfordEagle on January 16, 2014, 07:21:00 PM
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I looked at England's 30 for the WC & truly cannot believe Graham Napier isn't good enough to get in, even if he didn't score any runs he's still a better bowler & fielder than 2/3 of those selected eg Dernbach (just what do the Selectors see in him because I see nothing but utter dross), Gurney, Parry. I know I could be just looking through Essex glasses but Napes is one of the most consistent wicket takers in T20 & is capable of fast scoring if he gets his eye in, it reminds me of 2009 when the great Rob Key was selected despite being a poor fielder, non bowler & not a very good T20 batting record!!
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parry is a shocking pick. napes isnt in the best 15 but certainly in the best 30.
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parry is a shocking pick. napes isnt in the best 15 but certainly in the best 30.
The selection of Parry demonstrates how bare is the spinning cupboard. Agree 'Plank' should at least be in the 30 man squad.
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Certainly Dernbach's neither use nor ornament at the beginning of an innings but he has on occasions bowled well at the death. Quite (prepares to run and hide) but Tim Phillips could be more useful than some of those selected.
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Is the spinning cupboard that bare, or is it that the profile of county cricket has fallen so that there isn't the awareness of potential talent? I mean, look at the Aussies post-Warne, struggled with some 'left field' selections because MacGill had also retired, but seem to be settling upon Lyon and Doherty with others like Maxwell House.
If it is bare - why? Too little four day cricket? Poor coaching - the like of Rashid seem to have gone backwards?
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If it is bare - why? Too little four day cricket? Poor coaching - the like of Rashid seem to have gone backwards?
Why does it always come down to poor coaching?
Perhaps the players aren't good enough or lack a bit in application or dedication.
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Why does it always come down to poor coaching?
Why does it always rain on Larry?
Is it because he lied when he was head of Essex team?
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Why does it always come down to poor coaching?
Why does it always rain on Larry?
Is it because he lied when he was head of Essex team?
Ooppps he did it again.
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Ooppps he did it again.
Never had you down as Britney Spears fan tickle.
Then again you are vocal in your appreciation of all things rubbish.
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Ooppps he did it again.
Never had you down as Britney Spears fan tickle.
Then again you are vocal in your appreciation of all things rubbish.
As opposed to you just talking rubbish.
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As opposed to you just talking rubbish.
If I'm talking rubbish then so are the majority.
90% of us want your "Toxic" buddy out remember.
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As opposed to you just talking rubbish.
If I'm talking rubbish then so are the majority.
90% of us want your "Toxic" buddy out remember.
You can start your campaign now to get Andy Flower back as head coach as he has left the England job.
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As opposed to you just talking rubbish.
If I'm talking rubbish then so are the majority.
90% of us want your "Toxic" buddy out remember.
You can start your campaign now to get Andy Flower back as head coach as he has left the England job.
Good call.
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Good call.
I don't think that was tickle's intent but it would be funny if Grayson's card was well & truly marked as a result.
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You can start your campaign now to get Andy Flower back as head coach as he has left the England job.
I don't suppose Larry will be sitting by his phone in anticipation of a call from his country in their hour of need.
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Good call.
I don't think that was tickle's intent but it would be funny if Grayson's card was well & truly marked as a result.
See, that is where you are very wrong.
If someone can come in and do a better job then I am all for it; all I am against is your boring one man crusade to introduce anti-Grayson abuse to every thread.
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all I am against is your boring one man crusade to introduce anti-Grayson abuse to every thread.
It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.
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all I am against is your boring one man crusade to introduce anti-Grayson abuse to every thread.
It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.
(http://www.emofaces.com/en/emoticons/f/fishing-emoticon.gif)
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Certainly Dernbach's neither use nor ornament at the beginning of an innings but he has on occasions bowled well at the death. Quite (prepares to run and hide) but Tim Phillips could be more useful than some of those selected.
I think Dernbach has kept his place because his T20 strike rate (16.4) has been so good. Only Swann, Finn, Sidebottom & Collingwood have done better for England. He also had a good series against Australia last summer. By contrast, his "economy" rate of 8.25 is poor and his reputation as a reliable bowler at the death is pretty suspect. Whenever I've seen him, he bowls a predictable excess of slower balls which, if they are not wides, get well and truly despatched. His stats of 7-0-92-1 in the first two T20s in Australia suggest that he has become easy meat he should be heading for the sunset, fast.
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Reverting back to the original subject of the thread, Dernbach is the luckiest cricketer around to get into the final 15,apparently he has the worst economy rate (worldwide?) in both T20 & 50 overs, his discipline has also seen him dishing out the verbals to Cameron White recently despite White totally obliterating his bowling, incredibly he invited White outside to sort it out!!
How can he have been allowed to progress so far (& so badly)?
Clearly something needs to be done pdq, a good start would be to kick him out now!!
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Reverting back to the original subject of the thread, Dernbach is the luckiest cricketer around to get into the final 15,apparently he has the worst economy rate (worldwide?) in both T20 & 50 overs, his discipline has also seen him dishing out the verbals to Cameron White recently despite White totally obliterating his bowling, incredibly he invited White outside to sort it out!!
How can he have been allowed to progress so far (& so badly)?
Possibly Mr White would give the kick up the backside the Team England Mgt should've done years ago!
JD does have nice tattoos.
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Reverting back to the original subject of the thread, Dernbach is the luckiest cricketer around to get into the final 15,apparently he has the worst economy rate (worldwide?) in both T20 & 50 overs, his discipline has also seen him dishing out the verbals to Cameron White recently despite White totally obliterating his bowling, incredibly he invited White outside to sort it out!!
How can he have been allowed to progress so far (& so badly)?
Clearly something needs to be done pdq, a good start would be to kick him out now!!
Just looked at the T20 bowling stats for the series.
Dernbach 11-1-104-2
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Reverting back to the original subject of the thread, Dernbach is the luckiest cricketer around to get into the final 15,apparently he has the worst economy rate (worldwide?) in both T20 & 50 overs, his discipline has also seen him dishing out the verbals to Cameron White recently despite White totally obliterating his bowling, incredibly he invited White outside to sort it out!!
How can he have been allowed to progress so far (& so badly)?
Clearly something needs to be done pdq, a good start would be to kick him out now!!
Just looked at the T20 bowling stats for the series.
Dernbach 11-1-104-2
It's hard to see why they keep picking him but I don't think he bowled that badly this series. He had a couple of catches dropped of him and a few edges went to the boundary. 10 an over the times that he bowls in the first powerplay at the likes of Smith and Gayle and at the death to the likes of Sammy is actually about par for the course in those times.
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More you look at stats you either need to be "pace off" or be able to bowl at 90mph+
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More you look at stats you either need to be "pace off" or be able to bowl at 90mph+
That's part of it but the "pace off" bowlers were bowling during overs 7 to about 16 which is the time where the batsman were happy to consolidate. It does seem to be the fast medium bowlers are the easiest to hit in a lot of these matches.
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Reverting back to the original subject of the thread, Dernbach is the luckiest cricketer around to get into the final 15,apparently he has the worst economy rate (worldwide?) in both T20 & 50 overs, his discipline has also seen him dishing out the verbals to Cameron White recently despite White totally obliterating his bowling, incredibly he invited White outside to sort it out!!
How can he have been allowed to progress so far (& so badly)?
Clearly something needs to be done pdq, a good start would be to kick him out now!!
Just looked at the T20 bowling stats for the series.
Dernbach 11-1-104-2
It's hard to see why they keep picking him but I don't think he bowled that badly this series. He had a couple of catches dropped of him and a few edges went to the boundary. 10 an over the times that he bowls in the first powerplay at the likes of Smith and Gayle and at the death to the likes of Sammy is actually about par for the course in those times.
Interesting analysis but my feeling is that dropped catches/edges (like dodgy umpiring decisions) even themselves out. 10 an over is just about acceptable if you are taking wickets.
If you are bowling at the death when batsmen are taking the greatest risks, you should be picking up more wickets than Dernbach is getting. Historically, he had a good strike rate but he is going backwards, fast. Combining the WI series with the recent T20 series in Australia, 6 matches in all, Dernbach's figures are 22-1-235-2, that's a strike rate of 66....before that his strike rate was 16.
With all the video analysis available to coaches, opponents know that his much-vaunted variations consist largely of slow, wide balls, down the off-side, especially at the death.
I'll admit that there is not a lot of competition for Dernbach's place but if Bopara can outbowl him time and time again, the selectors need to rethink the structure of the team.
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Dernbach looked a much better option than Bresnan, Stokes and even Broad ( though he was half fit). Hard to compare to Ravi, the pitch suited him a lot more and he bowled in the easier times.
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Stokes hasn’t had a good time at all, has he.
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Dernbach looked a much better option than Bresnan, Stokes and even Broad ( though he was half fit). Hard to compare to Ravi, the pitch suited him a lot more and he bowled in the easier times.
If you review the stats for the last two T20 series, it's inescapable that Dernbach was the weakest link, however good he may have looked; not that I like tattoos myself.
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Stokes hasn’t had a good time at all, has he.
Oh I don't know ...
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he is only 22-23yo, already had one ban from a tour, now injured himself punching a dressing room locker! More and more looking like the new Botham!
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When told to go out and show what he'd got in his locker, Stokes replied "a dent".
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When told to go out and show what he'd got in his locker, Stokes replied "a dent".
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Recently back from watching the three games against the Windies. Watching Dernbach bowl the last over in the 3rd match was one of the most nervewracking times I've had in recent years. Why is he used as a "death bowler"? There is no feeling of confidence when he bowls. Both Ravi and Tredwell were doing well, yet neither were "saved" for the last over. Is the decision made before the game starts and then written in stone?
(and those tattoos are ghastly!)
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Dernbach looked a much better option than Bresnan, Stokes and even Broad ( though he was half fit). Hard to compare to Ravi, the pitch suited him a lot more and he bowled in the easier times.
If you review the stats for the last two T20 series, it's inescapable that Dernbach was the weakest link, however good he may have looked; not that I like tattoos myself.
With only the dead rubber against Netherlands to come, Dernbach's figures have "progressed" to 31-1-334-5. Ranked by economy rate, Dernbach is 193rd out 203 bowlers in the World Cup. It reminds me of another era when it was said to harder to get out the England team than be selected in the first place.
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The problem used to be that it was difficult to stay in the England set-up, so teams had no consistency.
The problem is that the England Mgt have rode roughsod over the county game to the extent that they don't look at potential quality and then just stick with the same faces over and over again. I also think the idiots who had back-to-back Ashes series should be shot: there's no opportunity to blood youngsters in quieter series.
I would suggest that they need to rethink the policy on overseas players (ironically) because they've cut the quality of players on the circuit because so few English internationals play for their counties (not that they should go back to the dismal 1980s when we flogged our best players).
Regional domestic cricket will kill remaining interest in the local rivalries, so Mr Mclarin that's not the way forward. Maybe we need to get our younger players invovled in T20 overseas especially on bunsens - whilst we stop fining clubs for producing perfectly good turning tracks .
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I take Andy's point about the 1980s but looking back it was a golden age for the championship with top test stars and South Africans adorning county sides. I remember a fired up Malcolm Marshall bowling really quickly to Allan Border at Valentines Park.....
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After this latest WC fiasco this must surely be the end for Dernbach for England - surely the worst seam bowler ever to play 1 day cricket for England, at least Ravi did ok, quite well in fact compared to some others!!
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I take Andy's point about the 1980s but looking back it was a golden age for the championship with top test stars and South Africans adorning county sides. I remember a fired up Malcolm Marshall bowling really quickly to Allan Border at Valentines Park.....
I saw Wayne Daniel versus AB at Chelmsford. Cut every other ball for four past point.
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I take Andy's point about the 1980s but looking back it was a golden age for the championship with top test stars and South Africans adorning county sides. I remember a fired up Malcolm Marshall bowling really quickly to Allan Border at Valentines Park.....
Yes, remember it well. Though I think the quickest I've ever seen anyone bowl against Essex was a young Imran Khan at Chalkwell Park in 1976. Though age and memory may be exaggerating. And his bowling, though speedy, was all over the shop that day.
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The problem used to be that it was difficult to stay in the England set-up, so teams had no consistency.
The problem is that the England Mgt have rode roughsod over the county game to the extent that they don't look at potential quality and then just stick with the same faces over and over again. I also think the idiots who had back-to-back Ashes series should be shot: there's no opportunity to blood youngsters in quieter series.
I would suggest that they need to rethink the policy on overseas players (ironically) because they've cut the quality of players on the circuit because so few English internationals play for their counties (not that they should go back to the dismal 1980s when we flogged our best players).
Regional domestic cricket will kill remaining interest in the local rivalries, so Mr Mclarin that's not the way forward. Maybe we need to get our younger players invovled in T20 overseas especially on bunsens - whilst we stop fining clubs for producing perfectly good turning tracks .
Sticking with players and having consistency in selection is fine but the problem as I alluded to on another thread in this sub forum is that we aren't selecting the correct players for the formats in the first place!!!
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DT, it is a very thin line between having a revolving door or a stolid clique. I just don't think that regional cricket or a return to the 'glory days' of 3 day CC and no central contracts are the answers.
Fundamentally, do we have enough kids playing the game at grass roots - indeed those that do mostly become disillusioned with the game, if they do make it into county youth set-up, moving onto soccer if they have the talent or out of the professional game completely?
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DT, it is a very thin line between having a revolving door or a stolid clique. I just don't think that regional cricket or a return to the 'glory days' of 3 day CC and no central contracts are the answers.
Fundamentally, do we have enough kids playing the game at grass roots - indeed those that do mostly become disillusioned with the game, if they do make it into county youth set-up, moving onto soccer if they have the talent or out of the professional game completely?
The ECB are reaping what they have sown. No proper cricket on free-to-air TV since 2005. I coach children (11-13yo) who have never seen a cricket match either live or on TV.
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Nat, it's the double edge of the SkySports sword - plenty of money but little long term benefit at the grass roots. Not helped by a Slurreycentric approach to broadcasting...
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Nat, it's the double edge of the SKySPorts sword - plenty of money but little long term benefit at the grass roots. Not helped by a Slurreycentric approach to broadcasting...
The dig at Slurrey is irrelevant. The ECB took the geld and although there has been an uplift in some club facilities as a result, the majority of the money has unsurprisingly gone into bigger salaries and bigger playing squads a la football premier league.
It is also no surprise that increasingly the number of professional UK players come from private schools where cricket is still a major part of the curriculum.
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Nat, excellent points as well.
However having a dig at Slurrey is always relevant. :)
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Nat, it's the double edge of the SKySPorts sword - plenty of money but little long te. rm benefit at the grass roots Not helped by a Slurreycentric approach to broadcasting...
That nice Mr Clarke says that the ECB will put more money into the grass roots....
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/733723.html
....so why is it I come over all cynical when I see the words "Clarke" and "money"?