Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: Oldhasbeen on May 15, 2018, 08:22:38 AM
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We've heard very little from Ed Smith since his appointment at Test Selection top-man, but come 3PM we'll see the first squad under him
Interesting reading the Sky punters' views - all pretty conservative, with very few changes from last winter's under-performers. For what it's worth , my thoughts.
Dead certs: Root, Malan, Bairstow, Stokes, Anderson, and a rejuvenated Broad.
Almost certain: Ally, for lack of alternatives. Leach would be there too if not for the thumb injury
Other batsmen:
Stoneman - can't buy a 50 this year, shouldn't and Won't be picked. Nick Gubbins looks like next cab off the rank, despite reservations about his ability to play spin.
Keaton Jennings is in form, and has, so I read, made some changes to his technique after being found out at Test level. Don't think he'll make the cut this time. IMHO Rory Burns has a better case
The infuriating James Vince may squeeze in following his timely 200, in which I read he really grafted and left a lot of balls outside the off-stump alone. Personally, I'd be inclined to leave him in the country game for a while to see if this was a one-of or a sea change
Bowlers - 2 places up for grabs.
Mark Wood in form, and providing some real place. For a spinner, only Dom Bess stands out, but I must confess I've not seen him. I'd pick Craig Overton above Woakes at the moment, partly due to the latter doing not-very-much in the IPL after a disappointing winter. Ditto Moeen.
Jake Ball is going great guns for Notts but has a poor test record so far and IMHO does't provide anything that Broad doesn't do better.
Left-field:
Bairstow up the order and give Foakes the gloves? Can't see it - JB's keeping has been excellent. he might well bat a bit higher than 7, though.
Young guns: anyone seen much of Ollie Pope or Joe Clark? I suspect neither will be deemed ready at the moment. Josh Tongue - the commentators at Worc/Essex were certainly enthusing about him but I can't see him being picked yet. Would be a Big Statement for Ed Smith to pick one real young 'un.
Old farts: James Hildreth, very unlucky to have never been picked, wallowing in runs at he moment. IMHO only likely to be picked if we have a few failures in the middle order in the first few tests.
So ... any thoughts anyone?
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Ed Smith is only one voice among many. ECB is innately conservative so no major changes likely.
Vince should and will play.
Cook will play.
Probably Jennings will play.
Bess is good but Virdi is better. Neither will be selected. I suspect they'll go with no specialist spinner for the early Tests.
Joe Clarke is good-ish but no better than the incumbents at the mo. Dan Lawrence is at least his equal.
Overton will be in the mix but a poor start to the season.
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Normally I'd agree about the test selection panel's conservatism but with 2 of the 4 on their way out, if could be a bit different this time.
I suspect they'll pick a spinner but not play him. Despite little first class cricket this year, Bess is my guess as he's got more form behind him and did well in the Windies for the Lions. And he's no mug with the bat.
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We've heard very little from Ed Smith since his appointment at Test Selection top-man
As a player he was blackballed at Kent & as captain at Middx he engineered a mass exodus of players.
Figures the ECB think he's the man to select England players.
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We've heard very little from Ed Smith since his appointment at Test Selection top-man
As a player he was blackballed at Kent & as captain at Middx he engineered a mass exodus of players.
Figures the ECB think he's the man to select England players.
Being blackballed at K@nt is no bad thing. My concern is that he attempts to be the next Mike Bearley but is more of a pseud than a philosopher: just a more erudite version of the long train of explayers making a living as a rentagob.
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Being blackballed at K@nt is no bad thing. My concern is that he attempts to be the next Mike Bearley but is more of a pseud than a philosopher: just a more erudite version of the long train of explayers making a living as a rentagob.
Big difference now is he's got to make decisions, or at least influence the decisions of a 3 man committee, rather than just talk. Some of the "explayers making a living as a rentagob", as you so eloquently put it, will no doubt tell him what he's doing wrong every step of the way, e.g. Boycott & Botham - why they are paid for their wisdom has been beyond me for a long time.
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My concern is that he attempts to be the next Mike Bearley but is more of a pseud than a philosopher
Definitely a pseud.
Compton, Joyce & Dalrymple all left Middx because of his captaincy.
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Cricinfo are saying Buttler is in. If so what a joke. He never plays first class cricket. Might as well select Morgan too.
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Cricinfo are saying Buttler is in. If so what a joke. He never plays first class cricket. Might as well select Morgan too.
Staggered to see Buttler selected - I presume he'll bat 7 with Bairstow higher.
Almost as surprised to see Mark Stoneman still there in his current dreadful form, and other openers ni the tons lately. Not sure what Woakes has done lately to deserve selection (although his test record in England is very good).
Dominic Bess is a brave pick, but doubt if he'll play.
An odd mixture of ultra-conservative and brave / unexpected selections.
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England squad for first Test
Alastair Cook, Mark Stoneman, Dawid Malan, Joe Root (capt), Jonny Bairstow (wk), Ben Stokes, Jos Buttler, Chris Woakes, Mark Wood, Stuart Broad, James Anderson, Dominic Bess
Buttler selection a bit odd seeing that he's not played much 4 day cricket recently but I would still fancy him to do better than Stoneman or Bess. Stoneman is bang average and Bess has taken most of his wickets on a dust bowl at Taunton. If you are going to pick Woakes, who has an awful away record but a good home one, then you may as well have kept Moeen in the side who is the same.
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Stoneman is bang average
To be fair he used to be effing useless so he has improved.
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Stoneman is bang average
To be fair he used to be effing useless so he has improved.
Yet when he was scoring runs for fun people kept wanting to get him into the team. Leach'injury probably threw a spanner in the works. I am surprised that they didn't go back to Ali.
Maybe Bairstow will be at 3 Buttler around 7. Can't see the two keepers being picked if they weren't both going to play.
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Maybe Bairstow will be at 3
Bairstow should be a specialist batsman full stop.
Long term Foakes should keep.
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Stoneman is bang average
To be fair he used to be effing useless so he has improved.
Yet when he was scoring runs for fun people kept wanting to get him into the team. Leach'injury probably threw a spanner in the works. I am surprised that they didn't go back to Ali.
Maybe Bairstow will be at 3 Buttler around 7. Can't see the two keepers being picked if they weren't both going to play.
Both will play I'm sure with Buttler at 7. Either Woakes/Wood or Bess wont play. According to Dobell on cricinfo Malan will bat at 3.
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Is it too early to initiate a 'sack Smith' campaign?!
What message does this send to players when Buttler is selected on the back of no recent 4 day cricket or form as a replacement for Vince who just scored 200+ in a lot of balls?!!!!!!!!!
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Is it too early to initiate a 'sack Smith' campaign?!
Smith is a toffee nose ex Kent player who will no doubt select that other toffee nose ex Kent player when his finger gets better.
So you might be a tad premature in your case.
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Is it too early to initiate a 'sack Smith' campaign?!
What message does this send to players when Buttler is selected on the back of no recent 4 day cricket or form as a replacement for Vince who just scored 200+ in a lot of balls?!!!!!!!!!
That he rates Buttler higher than Vince?
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Stoneman is bang average
To be fair he used to be effing useless so he has improved.
Yet when he was scoring runs for fun people kept wanting to get him into the team. Leach'injury probably threw a spanner in the works. I am surprised that they didn't go back to Ali.
Maybe Bairstow will be at 3 Buttler around 7. Can't see the two keepers being picked if they weren't both going to play.
Both will play I'm sure with Buttler at 7. Either Woakes/Wood or Bess wont play. According to Dobell on cricinfo Malan will bat at 3.
After talking to Smith he's now saying Root will be at 3
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Let's face it, there's perhaps 6 inevitables, the rest is a case of 'perm any five from...'
Pity for the likes of Hildreth who'll never get picked now. Maybe Bess is better off carrying the drinks. The Ali experiment has ended - ironically as he'd probably do well with the bat down the order.
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Pity for the likes of Hildreth who'll never get picked now.
He's a contemporary of Chef so he's had well over a decade to figure.
Rather him than Northeast though.
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So the selectors only response to the Lords debacle is to recall Keaton Jennings. Ye Gods ! One would have thought for once that some radical surgery was needed and if that means blooding lots of kids then so be it they couldn't do much worse. I would seriously consider bringing in Tongue, Clarke, Gubbins,Helm, even Sam Cook based on current form alongside Lawrence. Wells of Sussex is another I would consider, as I would Pope and Brook of Yorkshire. I see no reason for playing Broad again and we might have to bite the bullet regarding Anderson and Cook too. There are risks - 'You don't win ought with kids ( C. Allen Hansen) but we have to do something.
Of course the issues run a lot deeper - most of it leading back to Graves and the ECB. It's funny how Test cricket is apparently becoming an irrelevance and yet a defeat like this concentrates the mind of the Press and indeed the sporting public at large. Not something we would see or care about if we lost to say New Zealand in a 20:20 international.
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Test cricket = a 5 course meal in a fine restaurant.
20-20/ODI cricket = a snack at McDonalds.
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The England team are said to be underperforming consistently. Perhaps they are performing precisely as instructed by some Asian bookmakers? I have run out of other theories as to why they are so bad.
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The England team are said to be underperforming consistently. Perhaps they are performing precisely as instructed by some Asian bookmakers? I have run out of other theories as to why they are so bad.
I thought the same thing....then I thought "why waste money brining England to play badly?"
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Dropping Stoneman is the right action, Jennings is now back in form & probably deserves another chance, don't really know who else to bring in. One other area of concern is Captaincy, Root is struggling & the Press will turn on him soon like they do eventually on all Captains. A strange decision to bring in Wood on a wicket not renowned for extreme pace, Woakes would have been a better option & he can bat, Bess did ok & deserves more chances, although Anderson is still our top bowler he will be near 37 for next year's Ashes & we have to think about his successor sooner rather than later especially if he gets injured or breaks down or loses form,slightly less in Broad's case as he is 2/3 years younger.
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Agree with dropping Stoneman for Jennings. The former looks mentally shot while the latter is in good form. Jennings looked awful against the saffers last year but has really worked at his game and looked a different batsman when I saw him make a one-day ton on the box last week, far less rigid and with much better head position and foot movement. He deserves another go, although Gubbins has every right to feel disappointed (again).
Given the awfulness of our performance, however, it must have been tempting to make more changes. Steve Waugh famously said that fielding is an insight into the soul of a team - if he's right, our lot look destined for the pits of hell. I don't always agree with Michael Vaughan, but his suggestion of dropping Broad is, I think, a good one, not least to start shaking things up.
IMHO we are paying the price for the over-conservative NZ selection this winter. We should have been bringing in more new blood then and looking to the future.
One more bad performance and it will have to be time for some serious, high-risk, butchery. Another "learn some lessons" and "keep the faith£ sermon form Root and I am going to scream.
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Excellent article by Simon Hughes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/44281297
"Any batsman bowled between bat and pad should be made to do community service" - Spot on.
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I have never understood why people speak so highly of Mark Wood. Speed alone is pretty ineffective if you cannot bowl straight. His record is pretty poor.
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I have never understood why people speak so highly of Mark Wood. Speed alone is pretty ineffective if you cannot bowl straight. His record is pretty poor.
Then we go in with 4 seamers all chugging away at the same speed and wonder why we don't do well! However, the issue is we've gone back to square one with our spinners, we keep picking Broad who comes off periodically and our top order batting is so poor as well. If you persevere with certain strategies (e.g. a failed opener who can bowl a bit of spin being used at 8 to bail out the top order; giving the captaincy to our one decent batsman; picking a coach who's completely in the dark about the English game and/or Test cricket) then when these don't/no longer come off then we look in a right muddle. We could do with a Border type captain.
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Agree that Broad should be dropped. Increasingly ineffective and a barack room lawyer. Give Wood one more chance. Give me an 80mph bowler who moves the ball over a 90mph pie thrower anyday.
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I have never understood why people speak so highly of Mark Wood. Speed alone is pretty ineffective if you cannot bowl straight. His record is pretty poor.
IMHO Wood's worth persevering with but only if fully fit. True, his record at Test level is not good but if you look at the tests when he's been fully fit - I read he played in 2 Tests against medical advice and took 0 for plenty and 1 for plenty, I think - his Test bowling average is in the early 30s and he shakes up batsmen at times.
Can't see playing four similar right arm fast-medium seamers as the way forward - we've been doing it for years, and declining - I'd rather have at least one seamer offering something different. A class left-arm paceman would be nice, but I can't think of one who is England-qualified at the moment.
Horses for course, Woakes instead of Broad for me at Headingley.
Off on holiday so I will not see most of it, anyway. It'd probably be a good idea not to check the score online until after the first 3 beers of the day.
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Agree that Broad should be dropped. Increasingly ineffective and a barack room lawyer. Give Wood one more chance. Give me an 80mph bowler who moves the ball over a 90mph pie thrower anyday.
I suspect that Vaughan is pushing for Broad/Anderson to be dropped as he's sticking up for his little Yorkshire 'friend' - and he knows how those two seamers act in the dressing room.
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I know he is a better lower order batsman however I just cannot see how S Curran (104 wkts @ 30) gets in ahead of Jamie (225 @ 23).
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I know he is a better lower order batsman however I just cannot see how S Curran (104 wkts @ 30) gets in ahead of Jamie (225 @ 23).
Tail would be too long with Porter, Anderson and Broad all genuine no. 11s.
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I would prefer a bowler who bowls ahead of one who bats.
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Well my reading is that they've preferred Curran over Wood. They've packed the batting by playing Woakes. I'm coming to the conclusion that Porter isn't really in the selectors' minds. Does anyone remember Peter Lee of Northants and then Lancs in the mid 1970s. Took loads of championship wickets but never picked? It feels a bit similar to that situation.
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Well my reading is that they've preferred Curran over Wood. They've packed the batting by playing Woakes. I'm coming to the conclusion that Porter isn't really in the selectors' minds. Does anyone remember Peter Lee of Northants and then Lancs in the mid 1970s. Took loads of championship wickets but never picked? It feels a bit similar to that situation.
Curran is the Stokes replacement. A lot of people seem to think he may turn out to be a better batsman than a bowler. He was only called up 2 days ago as cover for him. The choice was Wood or Woakes.
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Agree that Broad should be dropped.
For Mark Twain. ;D
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Well my reading is that they've preferred Curran over Wood. They've packed the batting by playing Woakes. I'm coming to the conclusion that Porter isn't really in the selectors' minds. Does anyone remember Peter Lee of Northants and then Lancs in the mid 1970s. Took loads of championship wickets but never picked? It feels a bit similar to that situation.
Well, bit before my time, but I would argue that the CC was chock full of seamers who performed well season after season, so there always were people stuck in the queue.
Of these, some clearly were unfairly overlooked (JK Lever) perhaps because they played for the wrong team or 'face didn't fit'. However, there are plenty of seamers who got picked but were clearly not as good as their county form suggested. For instance, remember Neal Radford who in the 1980s took 100s of wickets a season benefitting from damp Worcs wickets.
It would appear that Porter has suffered this season from the back injury as well as oppositions targetting him as he's not quite quick enough or doesn't do enough with the ball. He's still done very well from someone who dropped out of the game. There's still time, and I still think he'd be too much like Anderson to have both in the side vying for the new ball and the number 11 spot.
From a county perspective, it'll be rgeat if Team England keep away from him as much as possible in the next season or so. By that time, Cook and Beard might've established themselves (you never know, Quinn might be back as well).
From an individual perspective, this is not a good time to get involved with the England team - poor coaching (with 'jobs for the boys' on the coaching staff, struggling captain, an over-emphasis on the upcoming World Cup, plus the likes of Anderson/Broad seemingling ruling the dressing room.