Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: LeedsExile on March 22, 2018, 11:41:14 AM
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Is the apathy so great that no one else can be bothered to comment on this debacle? Surely Bayliss must go now? It is appropriate that the test team are so useless as the entire management focus has been put on white ball cricket. Part of me is glad that England are doing so miserably this winter as it proves how misguided the decisions that have marginalised the championship into a spring/autumn event have been.
It might well be we see a lot more of Ali Cook this summer than was expected unless he has had enough of all this as well. :(
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Rather than play meaningless 2 day games there should have been at least two and probably three 4 day games played under proper rules before the first test. When they get home they all need a good spell in county cricket in advance of the Pakistan series.
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The official line was it was a shocker. It was by all accounts .
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The official line was it was a shocker. It was by all accounts .
Trust me it was.
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The solution obviously is to run two twenty twenty tournaments in parallel in the Uk and send some of our players off to the new 10 over a side tournament in India. Why not play the longer form of the game in this country in February and March, after all nobody watches it and nobody cares about Tests.
Alternatively somebody could give Graves, Strauss and Bayliss the boot and bring in some people who care about cricket rather than just making money.
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The solution obviously is to run two twenty twenty tournaments in parallel in the Uk and send some of our players off to the new 10 over a side tournament in India. Why not play the longer form of the game in this country in February and March, after all nobody watches it and nobody cares about Tests.
Alternatively somebody could give Graves, Strauss and Bayliss the boot and bring in some people who care about cricket rather than just making money.
I'll gladly issue the boot for free.
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Cricketers are no longer bothered to play for pride. The easy money of franchise cricket doesn't help. I Harry Gurney s dismissive tweet about Hales giving up red ball cricket because that's what the public wanted sums up the posh snowflakes in our game, and most of whom were born abroad and because British and kids don't play the game anymore.
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Cricketers are no longer bothered to play for pride. The easy money of franchise cricket doesn't help. I Harry Gurney s dismissive tweet about Hales giving up red ball cricket because that's what the public wanted sums up the posh snowflakes in our game, and most of whom were born abroad and because British and kids don't play the game anymore.
Well that's cheered me up.
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Cricketers are no longer bothered to play for pride. The easy money of franchise cricket doesn't help. I Harry Gurney s dismissive tweet about Hales giving up red ball cricket because that's what the public wanted sums up the posh snowflakes in our game, and most of whom were born abroad and because British and kids don't play the game anymore.
Well that's cheered me up.
After having car accidents, break ins and run ins since December watching 11 so-called professionals auditioning for Strictly Come Catching Practice is a relief.
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Cricketers are no longer bothered to play for pride. The easy money of franchise cricket doesn't help. I Harry Gurney s dismissive tweet about Hales giving up red ball cricket because that's what the public wanted sums up the posh snowflakes in our game, and most of whom were born abroad and because British and kids don't play the game anymore.
Maybe Gurney's attitude has something to do with him realising he's not good enough for Test cricket, despite his early promise?
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I've just watched the "highlights". I never like to say it can't get worse, but, well, even with England's away record in recent years, I really think our batting display was rock bottom. I can't remember a more shocking, spineless, brainless batting display by an England team. And I've been watching since 1970. >:(
Maybe we could have picked a better squad (I don't think Broad, Vince or Ali should have been picked for the tour) but the whole display showed a shocking mental fragility, which must reflect something rotten in the whole set-up. Someone at or near the top's gotta go. Bayliss's position (at least in red-ball cricket) looks untenable and what batting coaching our guys have been getting from Ramps I cannot imagine.
I'm planning on rising early to watch some live stuff in the morning. If England :( don't improve, could be hitting the beer before 8AM for the first time since I was at University in the 70s. :(
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I forgot Ramps was our batting coach. That would explain the camp collapse. I nearly ended up teaching him and Strauss on our course...
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It's ridiculous, jobs for the boys. Why should England players need a batting or bowling coach?!
The ECB is a joke. Take a look at the job vacancies that regularly appear on their website. It's like a rotten borough.
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If this was likely to be a wake up call then this winters shambles could be seen as a positive but sadly I believe we are watching the very slow demise of test match cricket. It will probably see most of us out but 50 years from now... glad I am very unlikely to see it.
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Talking about the decline of test match cricket I've seen some of the coverage of the excellent series in South Africa over the winter. They've had India followed by Australia. A lot of the cricket I saw was very good but there was practically no one at some of the games. And it was a similar story when India played Australia earlier in the winter. We've got the balance wrong somewhere.
There's a good article on Essex in The Cricketer this month and in it John Faragher talks about how it looks like the 50 over competition will be marginalised by the T20 franchise tournament (it will be played at the same time)and how festival cricket is most unlikely because of the lack of summer 4 day games. All of that is down to ECB policy, leading to the narrowing of the game and a retreat from places like Colchester in favour of short form evening games played in eight test grounds. My take was that Sunday games at Colchester attracted an awful lot of pay at the gate patrons from Suffolk and Norfolk (on the basis of the number of Ipswich and Norwich football shirts). They won't be going to T20 at Lord's.
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The ECB are chasing the city dweller who currently has no interest in cricket. They have no interest in existing cricket supporters because their thinking is that the existing supporter will travel and watch anything.
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Yes. Ironically most of the people I know who live in central London have no interest in cricket and the population there is increasingly made up of people whose roots are from countries with no cricketing heritage or who have lost interest, like the grandchildren of West Indian immigrants of the 1950s and 60s who don't seem to follow the game.
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The doom & gloom about test match cricket might have a point if the tickets weren't ridiculously expensive & yet still sell like hotcakes.
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VP - good point as far as London tests are concerned but in other parts of the country and the world it doesn't look so great attendance wise. I went to Durham on the Spring Bank Holiday Monday in 2016 and the crowd was no bigger than a decent turn out for a four day game at Chelmsford.
I've hit a price barrier this year though. My lad's turned 16.He's still in full time education of course but counts as an adult for tickets and the railway so we've decided not to bother this year. Getting on for £150 for the two of us to have a day out at Lord's is a bit much. Compare that to £20 for his junior membership at Essex - now that is a bargain!
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I went to Durham on the Spring Bank Holiday Monday in 2016 and the crowd was no bigger than a decent turn out for a four day game at Chelmsford.
Durham never had any business hosting test matches though.
Not sure it ever had much business hosting first class cricket either.
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I went to Durham on the Spring Bank Holiday Monday in 2016 and the crowd was no bigger than a decent turn out for a four day game at Chelmsford.
Durham never had any business hosting test matches though.
Not sure it ever had much business hosting first class cricket either.
Durham as a 1st class county? The more the merrier. Got to expand the game in order to save it.
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At a slight tangent if you go to T20 matches at Lords & the Oval there are very few actual cricket fans there especially at the Oval where it seems attending is part of the social round for the Summer, people don't watch the games preferring to get up every 5 mins for yet another round of drinks which of course inconveniences everyone else who actually wants to watch the game.
You wouldn't see hardly any of these people at a 4 day match or even a 50 over game & definitely not Test cricket.
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I think I know what's going on. As the only country with - apparently- a still buoyant interest in Test cricket we are trying to produce the worst team possible with the least preparation at home and abroad so that interest in the 5 day game here dwindles, leaving only the 20;20 stuff to line 8 counties pockets ( When I started this paragraph I was trying to be ironic but now the horror of the potential reality dawns). I say 8 counties because according to the Times and The Guardian today Graves has just awarded Glamorgan £2million for no one knows quite what exactly and without telling anybody else, and surprise, surprise it may not now be the case that all 18 counties get equal shares of the revenue from the new 20;20 malarkey.
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Clammy were given 2.5 million for not bidding to host test matches for the next five years!
I'm not making this up.
I have just submitted my application to the ECB to not host any test matches in my back garden.
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Make sure you hold out for nothing less than tuppence Nat.
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I went to Durham on the Spring Bank Holiday Monday in 2016 and the crowd was no bigger than a decent turn out for a four day game at Chelmsford.
Durham never had any business hosting test matches though.
Not sure it ever had much business hosting first class cricket either.
Hmmm.. 3 championships, a couple of 1day cups, and produced Colly, Harmy, Stokes , Wood and others foe England .... maybe you're being a tad harsh?
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It's ridiculous, jobs for the boys. Why should England players need a batting or bowling coach?!
So you won't be applying for the job when Ramps gets the bullet, Nat?
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I went to Durham on the Spring Bank Holiday Monday in 2016 and the crowd was no bigger than a decent turn out for a four day game at Chelmsford.
Durham never had any business hosting test matches though.
Not sure it ever had much business hosting first class cricket either.
Hmmm.. 3 championships, a couple of 1day cups, and produced Colly, Harmy, Stokes , Wood and others foe England .... maybe you're being a tad harsh?
Maybe but then I remember latecut.
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It's ridiculous, jobs for the boys. Why should England players need a batting or bowling coach?!
So you won't be applying for the job when Ramps gets the bullet, Nat?
On the other hand ...
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Glamorgan getting £2.5 m for not having Tests for 5 years means they are logically in a better financial position for bidding if, say, someone like Morne Morkel wanted to play for a Div2 County, they would have more money to bargain with, the same scenario could happen in Div1 with currently Essex, Somerset & Worcs at a disadvantage as they won't get £500k pa for not having a Test match, the system is blatantly unfair but what would you expect from the ECB.
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NZ declare on 427.
Obviously a terrible batting wicket
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Can we survive the final day ?
Final over of the fourth day could have been a game changer with Root's dismissal .
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God it's hard work watching England sometimes.
I thought Stoneman could go all the way to a ton ... then he can't stop hooking >:( ... very frustrating. 8 tests , averaging around 30, not as bad as some post-Strauss openers but hardly setting the Thames on file
Then the last-over dismissal. Aaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!!!
On the positive side, good to see our man Waggers bowling with some real fire and a games plan. Shame it worked!
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Anyone starting to now worry about Cook ? Are we seeing a decline in one of our all time greats ?
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I think the decline set in some time ago as regards International cricket. He has had a couple of centuries but mainly very low scores for over 12 months. The poor form of his opening partners has meant there has been less attention on his failings but I suspect if he fails in the second innings the discussion about his future will gain impetus.
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Nobody in the top order has had a run of good scores , except Bairstow . Unfortunately those put in the side have faired no better over the last couple seasons, including the selected openers .
Has AB once said, you know what to do but your reactions are not fast enough ..
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Anyone starting to now worry about Cook ? Are we seeing a decline in one of our all time greats ?
Yep. Back to shooting innocent animals for Chef. I guess one long winter too many.
Still, he's had a long career and doesn't need the hassles - sort of the mirror image of Gooch's career: the latter promised much but took years to realise his potential after stop-start career with the occasional wonderful performance, the other's career took off very quickly, with the odd fallow period, but has become generally underwhelming with the occasional wonderful performance.
Neither scratched balls or indulged in 'mental disintegration'. Both took on the best bowling attacks in their respective eras.
I am very happy to have seen both perform for my club and country. Shows the value of the 'lesser' counties to the national game.
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Now now Essex is not a lesser county as has been discussed on here many times. That northern air you breathe must have frazzled your grey matter.
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I think the decline set in some time ago as regards International cricket. He has had a couple of centuries but mainly very low scores for over 12 months. The poor form of his opening partners has meant there has been less attention on his failings but I suspect if he fails in the second innings the discussion about his future will gain impetus.
It's very noticeable that Ally's often been out to poor shots, rather than particularly dangerous balls, this winter.
IMHO we's hanging on there mainly because the alternatives are so uninspiring - Stoneman hanging on in there with a sub-30 average is another symptom of the same.
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The end of this tour may be bye-bye Ally, at least for a while, but surely Vince has got be shown the door for good, he has some lovely shots but he just ain't got it between the ears.
Don't rule out Tom being given another crack, although I think he's more likely to make it as a number 5 than a number 3 at Test level.
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Now now Essex is not a lesser county as has been discussed on here many times. That northern air you breathe must have frazzled your grey matter.
Indeed, that happened years ago. However, you do understand why I used quotation marks around the word lesser.
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I'd like to see Cook drop down to 3 and try a fresh opening partnership before leaving him out altogether. Lots of competition for opening positions, hardly any quality at number 3 on circuit. New opening partnership, top class batsmen at 3 and 4 would strengthen the top order and fleshing things up I think.
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Having an opener at no 3 isn't the worst idea as wickets often fall early , especially for Eng & Essex, they also know how to see off the new ball, unfortunately if the opener at no 3 isn't a stroke player or fast scorer it may slow down the tempo, saying that Jonathan Trott performed capably & consistently for Eng & boy do we miss him now!!
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And to a lesser extent Compton more recently. Remember several seasons ago Cook had not scored a test hundred for almost a calendar year and everyone called for his departure, but on review of his scores many in the 50-99. This is not the case at the present time but two daddy hundreds and his experience has kept his place .
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And to a lesser extent Compton more recently. Remember several seasons ago Cook had not scored a test hundred for almost a calendar year and everyone called for his departure, but on review of his scores many in the 50-99. This is not the case at the present time but two daddy hundreds and his experience has kept his place .
Beginninmg to think we might see a lot more of him at Chelmsford this season, though.
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All players will need to find some form to return for first Test against Pakistan .
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And to a lesser extent Compton more recently. Remember several seasons ago Cook had not scored a test hundred for almost a calendar year and everyone called for his departure, but on review of his scores many in the 50-99. This is not the case at the present time but two daddy hundreds and his experience has kept his place .
Beginninmg to think we might see a lot more of him at Chelmsford this season, though.
Would be nice but it wouldn't totally surprise me if he didn't announce his retirement from the tests and ALL cricket in the next few days...... No particular reason for thinking this, just have a hunch about it.
If he doesn't though (and I hope I am completely wrong) , then I agree we will see him for a few games, initially at least, as if he is going to want to carry on playing for England then he has to play some games for us and get some form back.
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All players will need to find some form to return for first Test against Pakistan .
Unless they do something catastrophic in the first few weeks of the season, I think we can ink in 4-7 (Root, Malan, Stokes, Bairstow), & Anderson & Broad. Other five places are all up for grabs. Maybe we'll see some surprises - none of the other batsmen have helped their cause much on tour, Moeen's been dreadful, Woakes mostly disappointing and Overton no more than promising.
I hope our boys have been watching some of the Saffers vs Aus matches, taking note (among other things) of how Elgar & Bavuma have grafted w hen necessary - Vince & Stoneman please note the discipline outside off-stump.
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and who on this forum said before the start of the Ashes tour that Moeen Ali wouldn't get a run/wicket?!
I'm available for coaching/seminars/shop openings ...
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and who on this forum said before the start of the Ashes tour that Moeen Ali wouldn't get a run/wicket?!
I'm available for coaching/seminars/shop openings ...
...and also wouldn't have taken Malan, if I remember correctly.
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and who on this forum said before the start of the Ashes tour that Moeen Ali wouldn't get a run/wicket?!
I'm available for coaching/seminars/shop openings ...
...and also wouldn't have taken Malan, if I remember correctly.
Also said there were "better options in the UK" when we signed Harmer. Unless these are Scottish or Irish then I'd love to know who they are so England can pick one of them.
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Interesting discussion on the beeb about why England continue bowling short when they are more effective pitching it up and the role of Silverwood. Either he can’t see what others clearly can, which I doubt, or he doesn’t feel ready to challenge Anderson and Broad. In which case what’s the point of a bowling coach.
I think this move may back fire on Silvers. If he saw it as stepping stone to the big job, he might have been better off winning a second championship with Essex.
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Interesting discussion on the beeb about why England continue bowling short when they are more effective pitching it up and the role of Silverwood. Either he can’t see what others clearly can, which I doubt, or he doesn’t feel ready to challenge Anderson and Broad. In which case what’s the point of a bowling coach.
I think this move may back fire on Silvers. If he saw it as stepping stone to the big job, he might have been better off winning a second championship with Essex.
Well, when moving into a new role, there will inevitably be tensions with experienced players like Broad and Anderson. If the latter were enforcing this idea of short pitched bowling, then they will be shown to lack tactical nous, although note that the Kiwis themselves fell into the same practice. Unless you are Mitchell Starc's pace, it's better to use the short ball sparingly unless a particular batsman is having problems with that type of delivery.
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I don't see any coach having any impact on either Broad or Anderson. They are two long in the tooth to accept advice and would probably say "How many Test wickets did you get?" to any coach.
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Why did the match finish as a draw with 2 balls of the over left and 2 wickets still to take?
Was it bad light?
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I don't see any coach having any impact on either Broad or Anderson. They are two long in the tooth to accept advice and would probably say "How many Test wickets did you get?" to any coach.
A question Neil Foster used to growl at others he saw as inferior.
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Why did the match finish as a draw with 2 balls of the over left and 2 wickets still to take?
Was it bad light?
Yep. Ridiculous.
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I didn't see the NZ second innings but I did see a bit of the first.
I found it a very odd tactic that, having got the top order out bowling full, they switched to trying to bounce out de Grandhomme with the score at 36-5. He pulled the short stuff easily, it got him going and the ball lost whatever shine it had left. Why not more of the same, at least while the ball was still newish? Who made the decision to do that? There seem to be a lot of cooks in the broth and it's hard to see who is pressing the buttons - Silverwood, Bayliss, Farbrace, Root, Wood, Anderson, Broad. Whoever it was they should have noticed quicker that it wasn't working.
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The skipper on the field should be able to see the need to change tactics. That is the problem with appointing players with little or no captaincy experience
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One very bad session on the first morning, cost them the two match test series , and rightly so . Never looked convincing in knocking over the tail with 23 overs to go today .