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Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: Oldhasbeen on December 14, 2017, 08:09:37 AM

Title: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: Oldhasbeen on December 14, 2017, 08:09:37 AM
Same team - no surprise as no-on outside the XI has made much of a case for incluseion.

In the balance at 192-4.  Just favouring the Aussies, IMHO.

Nice to be watch some live cricket at a just-about-civilised hour.  :) Shame we have to endure Boycott's drivel. Has he not heard Richie Benaud's wisdom on commentary: "On radio, you describe what's happening. On TV, you add to what the viewer can see himself. And if you can't think of aything that adds to wat the viewer can see, shut up!".

Ally looking like yesterday's man. Vince gets himslef out playing outside off stump AGAIN!!! Good work by Malan, Bairstow & Stoneman to keep us in it. Some real grit against class bowling, and some nice use of feet agains Lyon.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: nat on December 14, 2017, 11:20:27 AM
After day 1 we're ahead but not by as much as some people think. The pitch is a road and 500 is a par score.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: IlfordEagle on December 14, 2017, 11:45:36 AM
Our best day's play so far, we have to push on & get 500 & hope for a couple of early wickets. Well done to Malan who grafted well, Bairstow continued his good form, Stoneman had a torrid time but stuck in there & did well, pity about Ally again.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: Andy on December 14, 2017, 01:40:07 PM
After day 1 we're ahead but not by as much as some people think. The pitch is a road and 500 is a par score.

Nat, the only way to judge a par score is for the other side to complete their first innings.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: bwildered on December 14, 2017, 04:38:24 PM
Switched on to see Root and Stoneman dismissed . Although not like the result so far, great to see some fast bowling with batsmen being worked over. Much better than the 20/20 menu of it being on a plate for fodder .
Just need to serve a dollop of our own speedfeast .
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: bwildered on December 15, 2017, 06:46:50 AM
Oh dear back to type, Anderson and Broad opening spells both again too short, becoming contagious has Woakes now has the problem . Only Overton looks to cause any problem .
Mission impossible for Silverwood .
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: Oldhasbeen on December 15, 2017, 11:32:12 AM
Oh dear back to type, Anderson and Broad opening spells both again too short, becoming contagious has Woakes now has the problem . Only Overton looks to cause any problem .
Mission impossible for Silverwood .
Anderson made a comment about the coaching not being helpful, possibly referring to the loss of Otis Gibson as bowling coach.

If Wood or Stokes are available in the next test (please God, let it happen!!!) Overton (if fit) has gotta stay. On current form Broad's is really not worth his place, IMHO. Dropping him might be the kick up the a*se he needs.
Mo's also contributing very little but I've no don't think it's anything to do with attitude, just a loss of form. But the alternatives are not great. Rather wish we'd raken Rashid along rather than a complete rookie.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: nat on December 15, 2017, 02:21:48 PM
Looks like a side strain for Overton which would rule him out for the rest of the series... probably.

Broad is in decline and Ali, like I predicted, is doing nothing. Woakes is a limited player with both bat and ball.

Not looking good. I expect Oz to rack up 500ish and it will then be for England to bat for a draw.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: Perov on December 15, 2017, 09:26:40 PM
I find it strange that experienced bowlers like Anderson and Broad need a bowling coach.
If they don't know their own game and what they need to do by now they never will.

I don't think people like  like John Lever,  Botham or Fiery Fred had bowling coaches.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: IlfordEagle on December 15, 2017, 10:32:19 PM
Broad always seems to think he's a genuine fast bowler, which he isn't! At times they all tend to try to bowl too fast, often they bowl too short as well, the Aussies don't seem to waste anywhere near so many deliveries, some of them really did get up & test the batsmen. Unless we get Smith out quickly tomorrow I can see him getting a big ton again, maybe even a double, sadly Eng are approx 100 short especially after Malan & Bairstow had done so well.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: Oldhasbeen on December 16, 2017, 07:57:03 AM
Bye bye ashes.

Horribly dis-spirited England performance today. Where's the leadership from the senior players?

Only way I can see us getting a draw out of this now is if Michael Vaughan is correct and there's the mother of all rainstorms hitting Perth this weekend.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: bwildered on December 16, 2017, 09:34:56 AM
Had a quick look at the Haynes Workshop Manual on English Test cricket !! Batsmen get runs , bowlers get wickets . Mmmmmm .
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: IlfordEagle on December 16, 2017, 10:38:54 PM
Bowling was taken apart today, they tried hard but no penetration & they are all very average with little variation apart from being hit either to leg or off!!
Assuming Aust push on to 600/650 our only hope is the weather otherwise I cannot see us going far into Monday & goodbye to The Ashes.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: tonk on December 17, 2017, 10:14:04 AM
Beginning to look like Cookie and Broad have made one tour too many.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: bwildered on December 17, 2017, 10:25:29 AM
Beginning to look like Christmas ........, has come early for the Aussies .
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: LeedsExile on December 18, 2017, 10:13:33 AM
Staggering to lose by an innings from the position they were in during the Malan/Bairstow stand. Time to get rid of Bayliss. I wonder if Mr Silverwood is having second thoughts?
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: nat on December 18, 2017, 10:54:53 AM
... I wonder if Mr Silverwood is having second thoughts?

No chance. The ECB pay too well. This debacle can be fairly and squarely laid at the door of Strauss who has publicly prioritised 1-day/bish bash cricket.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: Oldhasbeen on December 18, 2017, 12:24:47 PM
Staggering to lose by an innings from the position they were in during the Malan/Bairstow stand. Time to get rid of Bayliss. I wonder if Mr Silverwood is having second thoughts?
More likely he's thinking of applying for the top job when Bayliss goes. Which may be very soon.

Whether another coach will do any better with the same platyers to choose from is a moot point.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: Slogger on December 18, 2017, 12:49:34 PM
Agree with Nat. The test team has declined since white ball cricket was elevated in status by Strauss.  I'm starting to think that white and red ball are different codes like rugby union and league. Different players and different teams.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: JasonP on December 18, 2017, 01:06:44 PM
Staggering to lose by an innings from the position they were in during the Malan/Bairstow stand. Time to get rid of Bayliss. I wonder if Mr Silverwood is having second thoughts?
More likely he's thinking of applying for the top job when Bayliss goes. Which may be very soon.

Whether another coach will do any better with the same platyers to choose from is a moot point.


I think that's the thing.  It's all very well blaming Strauss or Bayliss but the fact is in was generally aknowledged before the tour that it was a very weak squad and it's proved to be the case.  The best players were picked but they're mostly either a little past their best or not good enough in these conditions.  We have no decent bowlers of any pace or any spinner who would take wickets over there.  We also have a bunch of average batsmen who are picked after not doing particularly well in county cricket.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: Andy on December 18, 2017, 01:38:56 PM
JasonP, Bayliss admitted he never watched county cricket, our media stars never watch it, our selectors do (apparently) but I wonder whether Strauss does. When we appointed Duncan Fletcher, he'd had 3 seasons with Glamorgan, so at least he was familiar with most of the players. I'd say someone like Gillespie would be an excellent acquisition as he has been around the county set up over the years. Maybe spoons could provide that missing intelligence. Certainly it's a good time to come in as none of the top players look safe now, so any changes would be less likely to face player opposition...
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: Oldhasbeen on December 18, 2017, 05:13:36 PM
Jason/Andy,

Maybe Spoons can provide some better input on county players, and help develop some of the younger bowlers. Maybe he would warned against Ballance & Crane and we'd have had some viable alternatives to Chef and Mo. But whether we'd have done much better,  I doubt.
The 2 who could have made a difference
were Stokes and Wood.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: Oldhasbeen on December 18, 2017, 05:31:08 PM
Tocontinue: if Spoons can make a  positive difference to the management / training of fragile bowlers like Wood, and can help bring a cultural change so we're no longer reading about the team's off the field antics, and losing key players as a result, he'll be making a BIG contribution. 
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: Pembury47 on December 18, 2017, 06:29:41 PM
Excellent article by George Dobell on Cricket Info implying a decade of errors by the ECB
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: nat on December 18, 2017, 06:31:23 PM
Excellent article by George Dobell on Cricket Info implying a decade of errors by the ECB

We already know that. Shame that there isn't a UK cricket democracy.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: IlfordEagle on December 19, 2017, 04:50:56 PM
Few players emerged from Perth with any credit, Malan was exceptional & could maybe should be moved to no 3 as he shows a lot of bottle & character, Bairstow also batted well although he got a terrific ball from Hazlewood yesterday, Stoneman & Vince battled hard although Vince still doesn't convince me, Overton has a lot of guts & is a wholehearted trier which I like, Broad, Mooen & Ally were simply dreadful, of the bowlers only Jimmy largely & Overton who bowled with much heart justified their places, trouble is who do you bring in?
As was mentioned a while back Tom & Jamie were lucky to miss this one!
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: Oldhasbeen on December 19, 2017, 05:24:22 PM
Excellent article by George Dobell on Cricket Info implying a decade of errors by the ECB
Just read it. A very thoughtful and illuminating article. I hope Struas & Graves have read it.
Title: Re: 3rd Ashes Test
Post by: Andy on December 19, 2017, 06:41:04 PM
Excellent article by George Dobell on Cricket Info implying a decade of errors by the ECB
Just read it. A very thoughtful and illuminating article. I hope Struas & Graves have read it.

Yep. Very good. Although perhaps we should acknowledge that, back in 2007, the IPL and clones were only twinkles rather than the behemoths that swamp the English season (another reason why the standard of county game has been hit) but I would say that the comment out knee jerk reactions is apposite. 

There is a tendency to 'fiddle around' with various changes - scheduling being an obvious area, which needs time to bed in - whilst when changes are introduced the world has moved on.  For instance, are Kolpacs such an issue nowadays when so many non-English players can head off to play non-stop 20/20 tournaments? In this, Simon Harmer seems to be a throw back to another era: a genuine Test player prepared to roll up for 4 day cricket, often on unsympathetic pitches.

This might seem a bit of post-hoc rationalisation - but the need to look ahead and really think through the knock-on effects of 'worthy' changes is important.  As Dobell's criticism of Bayliss bears out there's an undervaluing of the potentials of the county game that has embraced divisional CC, central contracts and youth policies. Maybe Spoons does have this different view - whether he will bend the ears of Strauss and Co...