Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: neil on October 02, 2017, 01:00:24 PM
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Congrats to our three lads. Youngish team - no Hameed (because of injury)
Dom Bess (Somerset), Joe Clarke (Worcestershire), Paul Coughlin (Durham/Nottinghamshire), Alex Davies (Lancashire), Ben Duckett (Northamptonshire), George Garton (Sussex), Nick Gubbins (Middlesex), Tom Helm (Middlesex), Keaton Jennings (Durham/Lancashire), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Liam Livingstone (Lancashire), Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire), Jamie Porter (Essex), Amar Virdi (Surrey), Tom Westley (Essex), Mark Wood (Durham
ETA
Jack Plom in Young Lions squad
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Not sure what the point of Wood & Westley playing is.
Lions should be about up & comers.
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Not sure what the point of Wood & Westley playing is.
Lions should be about up & comers.
Might be to have them available as cover for the main squad?
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Thanks to Stokes the Ashes cupboard is pretty bare anyway.
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Well done Dan, Jamie and Tom :) :) :)
They did say there would be a delay in anoouncing the team because of the Stokes incident but that may be why a couple of 'older' players are selected?
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And to the coach although could be a bit of a concern given the current vacancy.
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Congrats to our boys.
A few left-field selections - Saqib Mahmood & Amar Virdi have only got a handful of games between them
Who's captain?
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I'd have loved to see Nick Browne in that line up.
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Who's captain?
Good question. It’s not obvious, anywhere.
Maybe Jennings? He captained the side against South Africa, I think
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And to the coach although could be a bit of a concern given the current vacancy.
I think Silverwood knew some time back about this Lions role and he sees it as an opportunity to look at other young players ... great for us from both a recruitment or 'working their weaknesses out' perspective.
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Can;t really argue with that squad, although surprised that neither Rory Burns or the Curran Bros are included.
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Not sure what the point of Wood & Westley playing is.
Lions should be about up & comers.
Might be to have them available as cover for the main squad?
Jennings is probably there for the same reason for when. sorry if, one of our top 3 become unselectable. Hopefully the tour will help him sort out his technique issues away from the spotlike of Tests.
Don't think it's a bad idea to have a few experienced hands to guide the young 'uns anyway.
Wood 's selection strikes me as a very different case form Jennings & Westley - whereas the latter 2 have had a crack at Test cricket and not proved they are up to it, Wood, if fully fit, is a terrific bowler and would certainly be in the squad well ahead of the pie-chucker Ball.
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Can;t really argue with that squad, although surprised that neither Rory Burns or the Curran Bros are included.
Tom has been allowed to go to t20 in SA and Aus. Probably a year too soon for Sam.
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Yep. Reflects the situation the county game is in at the moment. A gap between those who've been tried and failed and another generation. Hopefully the younger players won't be messed around with by Team England. Ultimately, we need batsmen who can play the new ball and spin, seamers with discipline and spinners who can turn the ball...personally, I'd like to travel the world, work for children's charities and...sorry that's my Miss World speech.
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That Lions team is very odd. Loads of better players not selected.
L. Dawson
Archer
T. Curran
S. Robson
Browne
Burns
Northeast
S. Patel
O. Stone
S. Curran
B. Coad
Why are they taking 3 spinners ?
Are Helm, Garton and Coughlin really better than some of those bowlers above ?
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That Lions team is very odd. Loads of better players not selected.
L. Dawson
Archer
T. Curran
S. Robson
Browne
Burns
Northeast
S. Patel
O. Stone
S. Curran
B. Coad
Why are they taking 3 spinners ?
Are Helm, Garton and Coughlin really better than some of those bowlers above ?
Archer doesn't qualify for England for a while yet. According to this not until 2022/23
http://www.thecricketer.com/interview-archer-on-target.aspx
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Lions won today with Dan captaining:
https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/531678/england-lions-win-in-perth
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Congratulations to Jamie who has been selected for WIndies tour and Dan who has been selected for the red ball.
Lions squads for the tour of West Indies:
Whole tour: K Jennings (Lancashire, capt), J Clarke (Worcestershire), L Livingstone (Lancashire), S Curran (Surrey), J Porter (Essex), P Coughlin (Nottinghamshire), S Mahmood (Lancashire), N Gubbins (Middlesex), A Davies (Lancashire, wk).
Red-ball only: H Hameed (Lancashire), D Lawrence (Essex), B Foakes (Surrey, wk), T Roland-Jones (Middlesex), J Leach (Somerset), M Crane (Hampshire), J Tongue (Worcestershire).
White-ball only: S Northeast (Kent), L Dawson (Hampshire), D Bess (Somerset), T Helm (Middlesex), G Garton (Sussex), M Parkinson (Lancashire).
Any thoughts on the teams?
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So basically this is the Lanky young players with a smattering of guests from other big name counties - except Yorkshire ???
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Some good players in this/these squads. Like to have seen Gleeson and Sanderson from Northants.
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Bess has only ever played 1 T20 and no 50 over matches for Somerset but has taken wickets in 4 day games. Not sure how he makes the white ball squad but not the red ball one.
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Bess has only ever played 1 T20 and no 50 over matches for Somerset but has taken wickets in 4 day games. Not sure how he makes the white ball squad but not the red ball one.
Either incompetence, a desperate need to fit him in somewhere or the selectors have seen something in him the club didn't. Shows that there's a need to really trawl through a new generation quickly in order to rebuild the international teams.
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Bess has only ever played 1 T20 and no 50 over matches for Somerset but has taken wickets in 4 day games. Not sure how he makes the white ball squad but not the red ball one.
Either incompetence, a desperate need to fit him in somewhere or the selectors have seen something in him the club didn't. ...
Or (as I believe) there are so few English spinners in the CC that he is the best of a small mediocre bunch.
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Bess did play in the England vs Perth BBL warm up games last week. I like the look of the squad(s)
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Bess did play in the England vs Perth BBL warm up games last week. I like the look of the squad(s)
Yep. But has very much highlighted the 'drift' in the selectoral decisions over recent years, now we find ourselves not only still trying to find someone to open with Chef/bat at 3/a proper spinner/with pace but we'll have to replace Chef and a couple of the 'undroppables'..
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Bess did play in the England vs Perth BBL warm up games last week. I like the look of the squad(s)
Yep. But has very much highlighted the 'drift' in the selectoral decisions over recent years, now we find ourselves not only still trying to find someone to open with Chef/bat at 3/a proper spinner/with pace but we'll have to replace Chef and a couple of the 'undroppables'..
In other words...replace most of the team. Another indictment of the ECB regime who have taken their eye off the 'Test cricket' ball to chase the filthy lucre.
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Yep. But has very much highlighted the 'drift' in the selectoral decisions over recent years, now we find ourselves not only still trying to find someone to open with Chef/bat at 3/a proper spinner/with pace but we'll have to replace Chef and a couple of the 'undroppables'..
In other words...replace most of the team. Another indictment of the ECB regime who have taken their eye off the 'Test cricket' ball to chase the filthy lucre.
Not sure that they had a plan, let alone this one. Appointing Strauss was a major mistake - too close to the political-infighting in the dressing room. He should go and coach at county level, at least he might learn more about the young players.
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Yep. But has very much highlighted the 'drift' in the selectoral decisions over recent years, now we find ourselves not only still trying to find someone to open with Chef/bat at 3/a proper spinner/with pace but we'll have to replace Chef and a couple of the 'undroppables'..
In other words...replace most of the team. Another indictment of the ECB regime who have taken their eye off the 'Test cricket' ball to chase the filthy lucre.
Not sure that they had a plan, let alone this one. Appointing Strauss was a major mistake - too close to the political-infighting in the dressing room. He should go and coach at county level, at least he might learn more about the young players.
Strauss wouldn't be seen dead at a county game ...unless it was at Lords where he can hob nob with the knobs.
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To be fair it seems like the selectors are picking players with raw talent and not so much based on stats/performances.
E.g, I have watched Nick Gubbins bat a few times and he looks like a great player, but he only averaged 24 for Middlesex. Yet he still was picked for the lions trip to Australia and now the West Indies.
Amar Virdi, Paul Coughlin, George Garton, Tom Helm and Saqib Mahmood are all examples of this.
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I' ve been impressed with what I've seen of Virdi, Gubbins, Helm & to a lesser extent Garton, pity that Jofra Archer isn't eligible until 2022 as he has certainly got a fine future.
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Jamie Porter takes 2 for 11 from 4 overs for the Lions.
I have always worried that Porter is only really threatening in English conditions. Good to see him doing well and hopefully experiencing different conditions will really help him progress.
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is he injured? didnt bowl in 2nd innnings
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is he injured? didnt bowl in 2nd innnings
Don’t know but Garton is
http://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/england/gleeson_added_to_lions_squad_as_garton_flies_home_after_aggravating_side_injury.html
I’d have thought it would have been mentioned here?
Maybe easing him back gently after his injury. He hasn’t been back that long.
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The reason stated below is from the Cricketer and states that Porter is fit and ready to play against the Windies.
"Saqib Mahmood and Toby Roland-Jones shared the new ball with Jamie Porter judged ready for Sunday’s first “Test” against West Indies A after his impressive first innings performance, and George Garton suffering from a side injury".
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Garton injured ... seemingly well qualified to be an England bowler then! Interested to see how Gleeson goes as his replacement. Gleeson is quick but erratic.
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I can't recall seeing Gleeson but found a very interesting article about him (and Northants generally) online
http://www.espn.co.uk/cricket/story/_/id/20299891/northants-unknown-fit-england-says-david-ripley
Hats off to Northants, and a cheer for our old boy Jamie M, for unearthing some late-developing talent in Minor Counties cricket.
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Porter in the team playing today. No Lawrence, though.
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Hats off to Northants, and a cheer for our old boy Jamie M, for unearthing some late-developing talent in Minor Counties cricket.
Exactly. Aussie cricket is far more flexible in the routes through to the top level of the game.
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A couple of good top order wickets for Jamie.
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Found live coverage of the Lions match here:
http://cricketwestindies.org/index.php/match-centre/?type=scorecard&mId=60&cId=3&dId=1&mend=0&livestream=1
Great to see Jamie bowling :)
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England Lions 145 all out. Not exactly roaring, are we?
Jack Leach seems to be making a case for inclusion in summer tests, but not sure anyone else is as yet.
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England Lions 145 all out. Not exactly roaring, are we?
Jack Leach seems to be making a case for inclusion in summer tests, but not sure anyone else is as yet.
Very dominated by spinners. It's interesting that in in the last couple of innings Livingstone, a part time leg spinner, has been bowled a lot more than Mason Crane
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Time to get KP in as he’s keen to help. Knows all about left arm spin.
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England Lions 145 all out. Not exactly roaring, are we?
Jack Leach seems to be making a case for inclusion in summer tests, but not sure anyone else is as yet.
Very dominated by spinners. It's interesting that in in the last couple of innings Livingstone, a part time leg spinner, has been bowled a lot more than Mason Crane
Judging by the stats, he has done a better job also
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England Lions 145 all out. Not exactly roaring, are we?
Jack Leach seems to be making a case for inclusion in summer tests, but not sure anyone else is as yet.
Very dominated by spinners. It's interesting that in in the last couple of innings Livingstone, a part time leg spinner, has been bowled a lot more than Mason Crane
Good! Means he's more likely to get a call up than Westley or Lawrence.
Judging by the stats, he has done a better job also
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Interesting that WI are thrashing england.
Even more interesting that Jack Leach and the part timers have comprehensively outbowled and outperformed Mason Crane and have the captains trust more tham him.
pathetic that he got a test cap ahead of Leach and just goes to show the power of the ignorant media who campaigned for him to play when i imagine most of them had never seen him before in his fleeting Hants appearances. Their judgement was based on the fact he played for a State side during an injury crisis in a competition that is quite weak these days. These are the same idiots who reactionarly day the county championship is not fit for purpose.
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Interesting that WI are thrashing england.
Even more interesting that Jack Leach and the part timers have comprehensively outbowled and outperformed Mason Crane and have the captains trust more tham him.
pathetic that he got a test cap ahead of Leach and just goes to show the power of the ignorant media who campaigned for him to play when i imagine most of them had never seen him before in his fleeting Hants appearances. Their judgement was based on the fact he played for a State side during an injury crisis in a competition that is quite weak these days. These are the same idiots who reactionarly day the county championship is not fit for purpose.
Having seen both Crane and Leach bowl live it's clear to me who should have been on the Ashes tour - and it wasn't Crane. Bess strikes me as a better prospect than Crane too.
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Pieinthesky You are quite right. The people who pontificate about players never watch any county cricket on the whole. When did anybody see Agnew at a county match? It is embarrassing when new players are selected how little the so called experts know about them.
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Pieinthesky You are quite right. The people who pontificate about players never watch any county cricket on the whole. When did anybody see Agnew at a county match? It is embarrassing when new players are selected how little the so called experts know about them.
Let's name names. The whole Sky commentary crew.
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In the 3 first class games the Lions played out in the West Indies, Mason Crane took only one wicket.
In spin friendly conditions that is quite incredible.
Ben Foakes no runs. How he, Livingstone and Crane made the test team for New Zealand amazes me. While we're at it, Stoneman and Vince clearly aren't good enough either. And thank god they finally dropped Jake Ball, another one who is very average.
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In the 3 first class games the Lions played out in the West Indies, Mason Crane took only one wicket.
In spin friendly conditions that is quite incredible.
Ben Foakes no runs. How he, Livingstone and Crane made the test team for New Zealand amazes me. While we're at it, Stoneman and Vince clearly aren't good enough either. And thank god they finally dropped Jake Ball, another one who is very average.
Is there anyone good enough for the Test team in county cricket???
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If players are being picked on the say so of the media, and there's no evidence this is true, then it is the fault of the selectors and not the media.
You can see why Crane was picked. Generally finger spinners don't do that well in Australia, although Lyon is an exception to that. They took a punt on him. I don't think he's good enough at the moment but maybe he could turn out to be? Leach wouldn't have taken wickets out there. He played 2 matches in Australia., one for England Lions and one for England in a warm up match and he got smashed.
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Good unfortunate to see a poor performance from Porter against Windies A. Hopefully this means another full season for us at ECCC ;)
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And thank god they finally dropped Jake Ball, another one who is very average.
Ball aspires to be average.
Every time I've seen him bowl he's been shocking.
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Good unfortunate to see a poor performance from Porter against Windies A. Hopefully this means another full season for us at ECCC ;)
Dan Lawrence hasn't even been in the team yet ...
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Jamie Porter rested for Third Test and Dan Lawrence flying home with a fractured right hand - not great news :(
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Hope Dan is OK for April in Leeds! And I hope it warms up a bit before then too!
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Pieinthesky You are quite right. The people who pontificate about players never watch any county cricket on the whole. When did anybody see Agnew at a county match? It is embarrassing when new players are selected how little the so called experts know about them.
It also defied belief that the selectors should pick a SLA and 2 leggies. Not a balanced attack and not the ideal attack for big spinning conditions. On a real Bunsen an offie can be much more effective turning the ball into the right handers whereas the leggie or SLA might just miss everything with a big turner. Take the example of Laker and Lock in the famous Old Trafford test in 1956 - the offie got 19 of the 20 wickets!
Seems that Bess was available but not picked as was Lawrence as a part time offie - no wonder England and Lions don't win matches if they are managed like that.
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Looks like Lions will lose 3 out of 3 - but now that Bess has played he has taken a five-fer.
Represents 5 times Crane's combined haul from the first 2 games.
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Looks like Lions will lose 3 out of 3 - but now that Bess has played he has taken a five-fer.
Represents 5 times Crane's combined haul from the first 2 games.
To my untutored eye Bess looks like the best young English spinner. Good luck to the bloke.
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Well, it's a whitewash. :(
No idea how good the W Indies A team were, but the few of them who've played Test cricket haven't pulled up any trees .
Some bowlers did themselves no harm, particularly Jack Leach & Dominic Bess, but it's hard to see any big positives on the batting front.
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I'm not sure I've ever seen a worse set of batting averages in a 3 match series ever. Only one player averaging over 22.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=12085;team=1003;type=series
Even Leachs figures have to put into context. The oppositions left arm spinner took 31 wickets at under 9!
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Who is the batting coach? Indeed, who is the bowling coach? I understand that there are some experienced Windies players, but given the experience of our younger players...perhaps they saw it as a jolly boys outing before 'term' starts over here.
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Step up Dan Lawrence.
Now where is that extra batter we need.
8) 8)
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I'm not sure I've ever seen a worse set of batting averages in a 3 match series ever. Only one player averaging over 22.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=12085;team=1003;type=series
Even Leachs figures have to put into context. The oppositions left arm spinner took 31 wickets at under 9!
Thanks for the stats Jason. good point about Jomel Warrican, who has a great first-class record even if he's not done much in tests as yet.
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Congratulations should go to Messrs Graves and Strauss as once again their attitude to CC cricket, ie play it mostly in April and May, has given our batsmen such superb techniques against spin bowling. Watch out for the next instalment next winter in Sri Lanka and against the senior Windies.
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2 nil down in the ODI series. As weak a team as I can remember. You look at it on paper and it looks terrible. People rightly moaning about the lack of spinners we have. Picking this guy is as bad as it's got though.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/776695.html
Everytime I've seen him bowl he get smashed around. Averages over 100 in first class cricket and in 50 over cricket he has 15 wickets at 59 at an economy rate of 6.69!
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Averages over 100 in first class cricket
Didn't Chris Wright average about 175 when we took him on?
& he was one of Grayson's least worst signings.
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Averages over 100 in first class cricket
Didn't Chris Wright average about 175 when we took him on?
& he was one of Grayson's least worst signings.
Ahhh Chris Wright. One of my favourite bowlers.
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2 nil down in the ODI series. As weak a team as I can remember. You look at it on paper and it looks terrible.
Loads players injured or playing in the Pakistan Super League. (Westley, Duckett, Finn, Dawson, Patel, Wessels).
Not sure why Rory Burns never gets picked.