Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: tonk on December 30, 2013, 10:15:07 AM
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Well I see Cookie has said he wants to carry on as England captain but does he have"it" where captaincy is concerned and more importantly is it bringing his game down?From the outside I would say he does not have "it" and it does seem to having an effect.
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I'm not so sure - Flintoff was the best player in the team and clearly didn't have the captaincy nous about him - Cook is not our best player (probably 2nd best) and has all the attributes to be a successful skipper.
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Ally's done OK -but no more - as skipper up to this tour. No-one, however, ever seems to regard him as an inspiring captain, and his captaincy has been well and truly slated by several good cricket writers in the last few months, as well as idiots like Boycott. The captaincy may well have been a cause of his decline in form too.
BUT the Big Q is: who else is there?
Matt Prior was vice-captain - enough said; Broad has captained in the one-dayers but would be a high-risk appointment. Eoin Morgan has captained in the one-dayers but not shown he's worth a place in the team (I wish he had, I love watching him bat.)
Looking at the county captains, they are a mixture of those whose England time has surely passed (Colly, Key, Tresco, Joyce, Read,Chapple ), overseas players and not-good-enoughs.
I suspect if Cooky resigns it'll be given to Ian Bell short-term.
Depressed? If not, why not?
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That's the point , who is there to replace Cook ? The cricket god's forbid that, as some more fallible beings have suggested, they should reappoint "The Ego".
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I don"t regard Boycott as being an idiot - even if I thought that he was , he'd still be an entertaining one.
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Broad has captained in the one-dayers but would be a high-risk appointment.
Broad is a mouthy so & so but has he ever wished broken bones on an opposition player?
He also thrives on conflict.
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Broad has captained in the one-dayers but would be a high-risk appointment.
Broad is a mouthy so & so but has he ever wished broken bones on an opposition player?
He also thrives on conflict.
Hmmm...it *might* just reign him in. He has obviously got a brain...just the thought of him being captain sends shivers down my spine but ...
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It's one of the flaws of the central-contract system, that England test-squad players (especially those who get central contracts young, like Cook did) no longer have much contact with the county game. So there are few cricketers regarded as test class who've had the opportunity to gain experience of captaincy at that level.
Cook had none to speak of before being appointed England captain. And he's proved to be, at best, an uninspiring and uninventive skipper. But it is hard to see a viable alternative at the moment.
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With his effeminacy, I'd have thought Cook would be better suited to captain the England Women's cricket team.
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But it is hard to see a viable alternative at the moment.
How about giving Eddie the Eagle a try, he's probably surpassed his aspirations of being an Olympic ski jumper and may fancy a throw of the dice at cricket.
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With his effeminacy, I'd have thought Cook would be better suited to captain the England Women's cricket team.
I can understand your antipathy towards Bopara & RTD.
I don't get it with Cook though.
He couldn't play for us even if he wanted to.
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He couldn't play for us even if he wanted to
A few more failures and he might be able to, although I very much doubt whether he'll want to, after all, he's never shown much inclination to play for ECCC when he has been available, apart of course from the obligatory couple of matches which may be mandatory in order to keep his registration up to date.
Anyway, where's this compassion suddenly emanating from, is it some kind of New Yr's resolution, next you'll be joining Finetrickle in the Larry Grayson Mutual Admiration Society stakes. ;D
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next you'll be joining Finetrickle in the Larry Grayson Mutual Admiration Society stakes.
They'll need to measure me for a straightjacket first.
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next you'll be joining Finetrickle in the Larry Grayson Mutual Admiration Society stakes.
They'll need to measure me for a straightjacket first.
I take it you won't be attending his 50th anniversary as ECCC Head Charabanc, then. ???
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I take it you won't be attending his 50th anniversary as ECCC Head Charabanc, then. ???
"Doctor Who" recently celebrated a 50 year anniversary despite being off the air for about 20 of those years.
Let's hope Larry enjoys a similar hiatus.
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If Cook is sacked/steps down from the England Captaincy then the cupboard is a bit bare, I share the misgivings of others re Broad (too much of a hothead & not mature enough plus he is a bowler & they generally don't make good Captains), Heaven help if The Ego got it again, far too early for Root, Morgan - no way ,he's not enough good enough for the A Team only for 1 day cricket, there isn't any other viable alternative.
Perhaps Fossie could be given it to solve the W/K problem at the same time for both Essex & England & we could then get a new Captain - little bit of Devil's Advocate here before anyone jumps on me!!
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If Cook is sacked/steps down from the England Captaincy then the cupboard is a bit bare, I share the misgivings of others re Broad (too much of a hothead & not mature enough plus he is a bowler & they generally don't make good Captains), Heaven help if The Ego got it again, far too early for Root, Morgan - no way ,he's not enough good enough for the A Team only for 1 day cricket, there isn't any other viable alternative.
Perhaps Fossie could be given it to solve the W/K problem at the same time for both Essex & England & we could then get a new Captain - little bit of Devil's Advocate here before anyone jumps on me!!
I like it Ilford!!!
Well Root has incredibly been dropped so can't see him getting the gig any time soon.
As already said, from within there is no one really so as an outsider (if Cooky is replaced) how about Wayne Madsen? Decent bat and captain in div one and would fit nicely into the current England team ;)
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Well Root has incredibly been dropped so can't see him getting the gig any time soon.
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It was worth giving the new caps a go, but to drop Root and retain Carberry seems a completely senseless decision. Carberry started off ok, but has lost form and confidence as the series has gone on. And Root is the future, not Carberry. Another selection mistake.
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Well Root has incredibly been dropped so can't see him getting the gig any time soon.
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It was worth giving the new caps a go, but to drop Root and retain Carberry seems a completely senseless decision. Carberry started off ok, but has lost form and confidence as the series has gone on. And Root is the future, not Carberry. Another selection mistake.
Disagree. You should pick a team to win the match and Carberry was playing (slightly) better than Root. Root will have a long England career, Carberry is in the last chance saloon.
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Is Root really the future? Has he achieved anything in his appearences to date, excluding one big hundred last summer, to show that he is test class or has he been overhyped by the media?
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Well Root has incredibly been dropped so can't see him getting the gig any time soon.
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It was worth giving the new caps a go, but to drop Root and retain Carberry seems a completely senseless decision. Carberry started off ok, but has lost form and confidence as the series has gone on. And Root is the future, not Carberry. Another selection mistake.
Disagree. You should pick a team to win the match and Carberry was playing (slightly) better than Root. Root will have a long England career, Carberry is in the last chance saloon.
Actually Root's batting average in this test series is higher than Carberry's, despite him being shunted up and down the order. Carberry's scored more runs on tour, but most of them were back at the beginning of the tour, before the test series started. Add to that the cost of dropped catches, and Root's contribution has outweighed Carberry's.
Carberry looked totally becalmed in the last test. Seems to have got a touch of the Comptons.
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Suggest the ECB dust off The art of Captaincy by Mike Brearly, off the top locker . Not Cook's fault enough of the seniors have failed in their own performances . It's a job not learnt from coaches but assessing how to get the best out of each individual .
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I've never had much time for Cook, although I hope for the sake of english cricket that I'm wrong, but he looks to have peaked at a relatively young age and his performances are very similar to that of Vaughan/Strauss immediately prior to their retirement.
His technique, particularly outside of off stump appears to be making him extremely vulnerable as an opening batsmen not only at international level, but also on the odd occasion when he participates in Div.2 cricket. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there isn't a marked improvement in the next 18 months, for him to announce his retirement from the game. He certainly wouldn't wish to continue on the basis of a Div. 2 cricketer with ECCC.
I think Anderson is also approaching his sell by date and now needs help with the climate and pitch to pose any real threat to international class batsmen. I doubt whether Prior will carry on much longer, if at all and Bairstow certainly doesn't look test match class. As Graham has stated, there are likely to be significant changes after this tour with no-one escaping the scrutiny of the powers that be.
I would think the only players certain to retain their places would be Broad, Stokes, Cook(but for how long) Bell, possibly Pieterson, with Ballance and Root getting further chances and that's about it.
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Is Root really the future? Has he achieved anything in his appearences to date, excluding one big hundred last summer, to show that he is test class or has he been overhyped by the media?
Ditto Bairstow. Or have they been poorly coached?
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With his effeminacy, I'd have thought Cook would be better suited to captain the England Women's cricket team.
Whoa there, given some of their performances Team Englette have more cojones than Cooks ill fated tourists.
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With his effeminacy, I'd have thought Cook would be better suited to captain the England Women's cricket team.
Whoa there, given some of their performances Team Englette have more cojones than Cooks ill fated tourists.
Indeed. On this tour's performances, not sure that any of the England men's team would be worthy of a place in the England women's team, who seem much more committed to the game.
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I would think the only players certain to retain their places would be Broad, Stokes, Cook(but for how long) Bell, possibly Pieterson, with Ballance and Root getting further chances and that's about it.
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Agree with most of your post, Diatribe, but disagree about Cook. You're spot-on about Jimmy, Onions would be a better bet now; and time to move onto a new, proper keeper, maybe Davies or Butler?
Re test selection, I'll go a bit further, .
The only players whose performances in Aus merit them being in next year's first test team are Stokes & Broad. Cook will be there so long as he doesn't resign the captaincy. Everyone else should be told they've got to produce the goods in the county game, big time, if they want to be selected.
If guys like Bell, KP, Jimmy, Monty etc can't get a hatful of runs / wickets against county opposition, let's give a chance to those who can.
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I wouldn't write-off Jimmy just yet - he was world class in the summer and we saw how Johnson became a world beater again.
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In the light of what happened Onions should have got the nod for The Ashes tour, he at least would have bowled accurately & sensibly with control which some of our bowlers lacked all the time & in the case of Anderson & Broad some of the time.
Re the 3rd day fiasco at Sydney England clearly had surrendered & wanted to get it over asap which they duly did with some appalling shots & little resistance bar Stokes, Carberry & Broad - all of whom showed some defiance & aggression.
Oh yes & England should get rid of The Ego NOW without delay, yes we may struggle short term but ultimately team spirit etc will pick up & young hungry players may just get the chance to develop.
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In the light of what happened Onions should have got the nod for The Ashes tour, he at least would have bowled accurately & sensibly with control which some of our bowlers lacked all the time & in the case of Anderson & Broad some of the time.
Re the 3rd day fiasco at Sydney England clearly had surrendered & wanted to get it over asap which they duly did with some appalling shots & little resistance bar Stokes, Carberry & Broad - all of whom showed some defiance & aggression.
Oh yes & England should get rid of The Ego NOW without delay, yes we may struggle short term but ultimately team spirit etc will pick up & young hungry players may just get the chance to develop.
Yes agree that Pietersen is a -ve influence and should go. Onions would have made little difference, he simply isn't good enough, however many soft wickets he gets in the CC.
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I wouldn't write-off Jimmy just yet - he was world class in the summer and we saw how Johnson became a world beater again.
I wouldn't write Jimmy off yet but he was disappointing last summer and poor on tour, so I think it's up to him to get a pile of wickets in county cricket and show he's worth his place. Sure, Johnson made a great comeback but quite a few 30+ bowlers lose their zip and never get it back - Harmison & Hoggy are examples who come to mind.
Graham Onions is an obvious alternative, being omitted from the touring squad might have been a blessing in disguise for him.
I wouldn't write Prior off eithe - look at the impact of Haddin, several years older - , but I think he could do with a spell back in the county game and England need to see what the alternatives (Buttler / Davies?) can do.