Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: bwildered on September 10, 2017, 04:37:10 PM
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Your 16 for Aussie 2017 are ?
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Cook
Darryl Mitchell
Anderson
Broad
Wood
Rashid
Crane
Bairstow
Root
Stokes
Rushworth
Livingstone
Craig Overton
Foakes
Alex Davies
Lyth
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Nat: 7 newbies, a couple of past failures - either you're smoking something or the ECB has really screwed up their squad development over the past year.
I agree that there are 6 here who pick themselves, if more than 6 of the others go to Aussie, I fully expect Theresa May to win this year's Strictly...
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Nat: 7 newbies, a couple of past failures - either you're smoking something or the ECB has really screwed up their squad development over the past year.
I agree that there are 6 here who pick themselves, if more than 6 of the others go to Aussie, I fully expect Theresa May to win this year's Strictly...
My squad is a better squad than the one the ECB will select.
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Sorry but which Cook is that?
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Sorry but which Cook is that?
Bit early for Sam. Defo next tour.
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Sorry but which Cook is that?
Jimmy. Surely
We all know how much nat likes a saffer in the team!
8) 8)
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Nat: 7 newbies, a couple of past failures - either you're smoking something or the ECB has really screwed up their squad development over the past year.
I agree that there are 6 here who pick themselves, if more than 6 of the others go to Aussie, I fully expect Theresa May to win this year's Strictly...
My squad is a better squad than the one the ECB will select.
Maybe. All hail The Nat.
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Biggest question for me is whether Nat's been on the bottle, the whacky baccy or some rather stronger mind-expanding substance ....
Darryl Mitchell - 33, never really been in test frame before. Better than Robson, Stoneman, Hameed? I think not.
Chris Rushworth – 31, good English conditions bowler, but in Aus?
Lyth – found out before, uninspiring this season. His selection would have the aussies cheering big-time.
Livingstone, Craig Overton, Alex Davies, Crane all promising but how many newbies do we wan on one tour?
No Woakes, Toby R-J, Stoneman???
No Moen?????? Now that would delight the Aussies
Foakes – does he have a shout as 2nd keeper/batsman? Could do worse
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Biggest question for me is whether Nat's been on the bottle, the whacky baccy or some rather stronger mind-expanding substance ....
Darryl Mitchell - 33, never really been in test frame before. Better than Robson, Stoneman, Hameed? I think not.
Chris Rushworth – 31, good English conditions bowler, but in Aus?
Lyth – found out before, uninspiring this season. His selection would have the aussies cheering big-time.
Livingstone, Craig Overton, Alex Davies, Crane all promising but how many newbies do we wan on one tour?
No Woakes, Toby R-J, Stoneman???
No Moen?????? Now that would delight the Aussies
Foakes – does he have a shout as 2nd keeper/batsman? Could do worse
Fully sober ... now.
Never understood the excitement over Moen Ali. Look at his batting/bowling Test averages. Won't get many runs or take many wickets in Oz.
You think Stoneman or TRJ will have the Aussies shaking in their thongs?
Woakes - there are a million players like him in Oz. Their batsmen will eat him for breakfast.
Rushworth - I seem to remember an Aussie bowler called Alderman who did quite well in Oz. How about Hazelwood?
Mitchell - at least as good as those you mentioned. Why should age be a factor?
Lyth - has a bit of dog in him. Yes a poorish season this year. Will come again.
Overton - really impressive when I've seen him. Got a bit of a temper which will come in handy.
Davies and Foakes provide WK *and* batting competition.
All sounds logical to my fuzzy mind.
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Cook
Hameed
Stoneman
Root
Livingstone
Hales
Ballance
Bairstow
Foakes
Stokes
Woakes
Anderson
Broad
Ali
Crane
Wood
Curran (S)
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Never understood the excitement over Moeen Ali? Well, against the Saffers he became only the second England cricketer, after Botham to take 25 wickets and score more than 250 runs in a Test series ....and against good opposition.
No, Stoneman or TRJ will not have the Aussies shaking in their thongs, but they've done enough to merit going
Woakes has a test batting averages of 32 and bowling average of 30. NOt to mention 9 first class centuries. Please name the "million players like him in Oz"
Rushworth, Mitchell, Lyth - no evidence to back your claims. Not a prayer any of them will be picked
Overton, Davies, Foakes, Crane all plausible, wouldn't be surprised to see some of them make their test debuts in the next year or 2 ........ but do you really think any manager, coach or captain is going to want to take more than 1 or at most 2 test rookies to Aus? Most players take at least a few tests to find their feet, taking a hatful of rookies would be suicide. Can you cite many cases of England rookies doing well in Aus? Ben Stokes in 2013 comes to mind - but the other rookies were all cr*p on that tour.
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Bayliss has made it clear than he doesn't expect any players who haven't been selected in the last 18 months in the squad, although this is open to interpretation. Do Crane or Hales meet his criteria for inclusion?
However, Bayliss doesn't have a monopoly on selection and there are a few CC games and the WI one-dayers to come .. could someone new break in?
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I wouldn't expect someone to break in to the test squad on the back of a few one day games.
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Worth a read:
http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/16374/11029089/sky-sports-cricket-pundits-pick-england-squad-for-ashes
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Lord Gower was the chairman of the panel. They only had a hour .
The biggest debate was to convince Root into No3 berth . Westley's chief supporter was Beefy, although most said he got cheap runs in his second innings.
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If Botham is Tom's chief supporter then that's it he's had it!!
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If Botham is Tom's chief supporter then that's it he's had it!!
Yep Beefy is only present as the local character.
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If Botham is Tom's chief supporter then that's it he's had it!!
Yep Beefy is only present as the local character.
Botham: as so often, a great player makes a dismal pundit.
Along with Willis, Boycott, Shearer and quite a few others.
One key thing in the discussion: the need for player with real balls to tour Aus. Afraid Tom, at least in the test arena, doesn't inspire confidence in this respect. Malan looks more gutsy.
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If Botham is Tom's chief supporter then that's it he's had it!!
Yep Beefy is only present as the local character.
Botham: as so often, a great player makes a dismal pundit.
Along with Willis, Boycott, Shearer and quite a few others.
One key thing in the discussion: the need for player with real balls to tour Aus. Afraid Tom, at least in the test arena, doesn't inspire confidence in this respect. Malan looks more gutsy.
Saffer so may bottle it.
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Sounds like TRD will miss out with his back injury.
Assuming Wood passes a fitness test (big if). that will leave room for one more paceman. Any suggestions? I'm not convinced by any of the obvious (experienced) candidates:
Finn - can be devastating, does he have the mental strength?
Ball - doesn't look anything special to me.
Willey - one-day player. Useful bat & good fielder but his bowling would get marmalised downunder
Footit - on the verge last year. I like a lefty in the attack, but shot himself in the foot by leaving Surrey.
Jordan - great slip but his bowling's never convinced at Test level
Plunkett - maybe the default choice?
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My choice - Craig Overton. They'll probably need another bowler to cover Wood for when he (inevitably) gets injured. So I'd go for Sam Curran.
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I expect they will pick Finn but he was "unselectable" the last time in Australia. I also favour either Overton or Plunkett. I do not rate Ball at all.
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My choice - Craig Overton. They'll probably need another bowler to cover Wood for when he (inevitably) gets injured. So I'd go for Sam Curran.
Yep agree with this.
Think Overton has a good future. Let's hope he keeps Jamie out of the test team for years to come! 8) 8)
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So Westley who has averaged 24.12 in his first 9 test innings has been replaced by James Vince who averaged 19.27 in his 11 test innings to date. Talk me through that decision!!
As for selecting Gary Ballance again.............................
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So Westley who has averaged 24.12 in his first 9 test innings has been replaced by James Vince who averaged 19.27 in his 11 test innings to date. Talk me through that decision!!
As for selecting Gary Ballance again.............................
The sad thing is I think Ballance is probably the best option, as long as he bats at 5 and not 3. He's a better player than Malan, Vince and Westley. The cupboard is very bare at the moment when it comes to first class batting at them moment.
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Looks like another drubbing is coming-not much to choose between the batters but the Aussie bowling looks much better.
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I agree that the selectors haven't got a lot of great options but...
- Ballance has shown time and again that he ain't got it against class attacks, whether pace, spin or swing. (I would have preferred Hales)
- Ball has a test bowling average of 114. His supporters claim that his height wil help on Aussie wickets, but anyone remember the 2013 tour, when we took Finn, Rankin and Tremlett on the same grounds? Enough said.
- In tests, Vince often looked good for a while, but overall did poorly, getting out playing outside off stump over and again. The Big Q - has he changed anything in his technique/approach to mitigate this? (Anyone seen him much this year? He's only averaging 35.)
Haven't seen Overton for a couple of years but his figures are good. Mason Crane - big risk.Can't see him playing unless we get desperate.
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However, a big cheer for the selectors in NOT selecting half-fit players - no more triumphs of hope over experience!
If fit, TRJ & Wood would have been in my squad.
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I agree with old has been's comments. I have never seen anything in Ball to justify his selection and to date Crane is all hype over actual performances. Would have preferred Leach as spinner. Balance is in because he is a close friend of Root, Rashid is not hence his absence.
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The word is that Finn will be in the Lions squad, to be announced on Monday. It might also be wise to have a couple of batsmen with Test experience in the Lions team for when, sorry if, one or more of our batmen prove themselves "unselectable" as Ballance did last year.
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I agree with old has been's comments. I have never seen anything in Ball to justify his selection and to date Crane is all hype over actual performances. Would have preferred Leach as spinner. Balance is in because he is a close friend of Root, Rashid is not hence his absence.
Leach is a chucker? I have to say, Porter and Cook could be looking at call ups next season.
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Some strange choices in that squad and a few "lucky players" who have been selected. No big surprise that Westley isn't in the squad but do Vince or Ballance really deserve yet another chance ahead of him though? and as for Crane?!!....
Luckily the Aussies are in a poor state with their test side at the moment so I think it will be a competitive and close series.
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I agree with old has been's comments. I have never seen anything in Ball to justify his selection and to date Crane is all hype over actual performances. Would have preferred Leach as spinner. Balance is in because he is a close friend of Root, Rashid is not hence his absence.
Leach is a chucker? I have to say, Porter and Cook could be looking at call ups next season.
I though Leach had resolved the issues about his action. Surely he'll be in the Lions squad.
And surely Jamie and Tom will be with him. Not that I expect Aus to be great for either, but they deserve to be given a chance there.
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Leach's action looked ok for Somerset at Chelmsford the other week, saw Vince v us back in May & he looked more like a Club player than a Div 1 batsman - very lucky to go, Hales not good enough either ,he is a 1 day player only.
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Nasser (on Sky) and Aggers (on the Beeb) both asked some piercing questions:
- if Mo broke a finger the day before the first test, would we REALLY chuck in Crane?
- In the first two tests of the summer, Balance has appeared to change nothing in the technique that's failed abysmally against quality bowling before (average under 20 in his last 12 tests)- what don't we know?
- We're rewarding Vince for NOT being n the Test side over the summer! Why? James Whittaker asserted that Vince's technique will suit Aussie pitches well, but didn't explain why ... I'd have thought that the fast, bouncy Aussie pitches would be the worst place for a batter who cant stop flicking outside off......
Fortunate that the Aussies aren't that great either at the moment, so I can't see a 5-0 drubbing UNLESS the halfwit Stokes drops out over, er, "legal issues"
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Agree with ‘oldhasbeen’! Think Vince is a very, very lucky chap to have been chosen. As for Ballance...... well, on the evidence of this week you have to think he knows where some bodies are buried. Porter and Cook were all over him.
Don’t think Cook will get a Lions call up yet; wait until he’s finished Uni in 2019. Porter I would think must be going, plus Lawrence. Suspect, sadly, that Browne’s ship has sailed.
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Agree with ‘oldhasbeen’! Think Vince is a very, very lucky chap to have been chosen. As for Ballance...... well, on the evidence of this week you have to think he knows where some bodies are buried. Porter and Cook were all over him.
Don’t think Cook will get a Lions call up yet; wait until he’s finished Uni in 2019. Porter I would think must be going, plus Lawrence. Suspect, sadly, that Browne’s ship has sailed.
Vince may be lucky but I have a hunch he will be successful, more successful than others. I get the impression with him that he gets bored easily and goes hard at the ball. A moving ball is his weakness but in Oz it doesn't move so much.
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Agree with ‘oldhasbeen’! Think Vince is a very, very lucky chap to have been chosen. As for Ballance...... well, on the evidence of this week you have to think he knows where some bodies are buried. Porter and Cook were all over him.
Don’t think Cook will get a Lions call up yet; wait until he’s finished Uni in 2019. Porter I would think must be going, plus Lawrence. Suspect, sadly, that Browne’s ship has sailed.
Vince may be lucky but I have a hunch he will be successful, more successful than others. I get the impression with him that he gets bored easily and goes hard at the ball. A moving ball is his weakness but in Oz it doesn't move so much.
YOU may be right about Vince's weaknesses Nat. When I saw him play for Hants a few years ago he looked classy.
But even if he is better on hard, fast and true wickets, having no alternative number 3 or opener in the squad strikes me as insane. Unless, of course, that the selectors STIll think Ballance is a number 3?
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Re Browne (and Porter). It is often the case that one's 'stock' rises from being outside a failing England team.
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Nick Browne is a solid & reliable opener who bats with great concentration, has a decent defence but does not often play attacking innings although he bats according to the situation & for the teams needs. He would need to up his game another level which I think he can do but certainly for next year will probably strive to ensure he passes 1,000 FC runs for us, he had a sticky start this year but grafted hard & it paid off for him & the team. His is one of the first names on the team sheet for me.
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NB plays the game to his limitations and good luck to him. Not quite good enough for England ... yet.
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Still a chance for Tom?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-4934902/England-plan-life-without-Ben-Stokes.html
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Still a chance for Tom?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-4934902/England-plan-life-without-Ben-Stokes.html
Unusually thoughtful article from the overpriced bog roll that is the Daily Mail.
As far as a like for like replacements go, the best allrounders (Mo, Woakes, Overton C) are already in the England squad. The only other seam bowling all rounder who comes to mind is Rikki Clark, OAP; most obvious spinning all rounders are Liam Dawson & Fatty Patel. (Have I missed anyone?) None inspire me greatly, I'd probably go for a batsman.
IMHO the mond likely replacement in the XI for the first test is Overton, batting at 9, with Woakes, No, and JB moving up the order.
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Watched the one-day test yesterday. AmI the only one asking how a pie-chucker like Ball gets on the plane ahead of Plunkett, with his genuine pace, fine fielding and useful low-order hitting.?
I thought Tom Curran's blowing was encouraging
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Plunkett is being talked up due to his excellent one day performances. However he rarely plays first class cricket these days making only two championship appearances for Yorkshire. Even when fit and available he was overlooked. Yorkshire have decided that he is not fit enough to last four days so surely he would be a huge gamble for a five day test. He has also expressed an interest to be a 20/20 "mercenary".
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Watched the one-day test yesterday. AmI the only one asking how a pie-chucker like Ball gets on the plane ahead of Plunkett, with his genuine pace, fine fielding and useful low-order hitting.?
I thought Tom Curran's blowing was encouraging
No you are not the only one. However Tom or Sam Curran are better players than Plunkett who also has similar off the field hobbies to Stokes. Avoid.
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Plunkett is being talked up due to his excellent one day performances. However he rarely plays first class cricket these days making only two championship appearances for Yorkshire. Even when fit and available he was overlooked. Yorkshire have decided that he is not fit enough to last four days so surely he would be a huge gamble for a five day test. He has also expressed an interest to be a 20/20 "mercenary".
I was unaware how little red ball Plunkett had played for Yorks this year. You have a fair point.
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Papers are saying that there will be a delay in announcing the Lions squad because of all this.
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Plunkett is being talked up due to his excellent one day performances. However he rarely plays first class cricket these days making only two championship appearances for Yorkshire. Even when fit and available he was overlooked. Yorkshire have decided that he is not fit enough to last four days so surely he would be a huge gamble for a five day test. He has also expressed an interest to be a 20/20 "mercenary".
I was unaware how little red ball Plunkett had played for Yorks this year. You have a fair point.
He got only 10 wickets at an average of 60 in 8 matches in 2016 aswell
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/county-championship-div1-2016/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=10771;team=1515;type=tournament
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Sam is the pick of the Curran brothers for me.
Makings of a genuine allrounder.
& Ball is awful. The Windies demolished him.
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Sam is the pick of the Curran brothers for me.
Makings of a genuine allrounder.
& Ball is awful. The Windies demolished him.
Spot on
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I think Sam is the better bat whilst Tom is the better bowler, both will play for England soon enough, 1 day first & then possibly 5 day or should that be 4?
Sorry are very lucky to have them.