Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: Blocky on July 20, 2017, 12:05:43 PM
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Called up for England
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Good Luck fella.
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Good for Tom, Disaster for our CC hopes though. we could have absorbed cook going not westley too.
Cook and Westley gone from the top 3. its wishful thinking to hope he fails in the test and is back for yorks game. they will give him a few tests at least.
Personally i think there are other who should have been picked ahead of him. Stoneman whos been doing it in div 1 consistently for a few seasons should play. its inexplicable hes overlooked again.
worst case he misses 4 games?
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Firstly congratulations to TW and I hope he is successful.
Why is it assumed he will miss the more than the Yorks game? He should be available for at least some of the Sept CC games.
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Good for Tom, Disaster for our CC hopes though. we could have absorbed cook going not westley too.
Cook and Westley gone from the top 3. its wishful thinking to hope he fails in the test and is back for yorks game. they will give him a few tests at least.
Personally i think there are other who should have been picked ahead of him. Stoneman whos been doing it in div 1 consistently for a few seasons should play. its inexplicable hes overlooked again.
worst case he misses 4 games?
Runs for England Lions have done him a lot of good. He did well in the winter and also the 100 against SA a couple of weeks ago. There's also a theory that Philander and Morkel bowl well at left handers and so perhaps having the top 3 as left handers as they have done in the first couple of tests was a mistake. Stoneman would give three left handers in the top 3 plus Stokes and Ali at 5 and 7. If they play Malan for Dawson that would be another.
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Firstly congratulations to TW and I hope he is successful.
Why is it assumed he will miss the more than the Yorks game? He should be available for at least some of the Sept CC games.
because england dont do one cap wonders anymore. who will come in for him? after this test if you think he will only get 1 game
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Firstly congratulations to TW and I hope he is successful.
Why is it assumed he will miss the more than the Yorks game? He should be available for at least some of the Sept CC games.
because england dont do one cap wonders anymore. who will come in for him? after this test if you think he will only get 1 game
I agree with you. I think he'll get a run but on the other hand he's only playing because Ballance, who Root wanted in the team, is injured. If Ballance gets fit for the 4th Test perhaps they'll want him back in?
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Firstly congratulations to TW and I hope he is successful.
Why is it assumed he will miss the more than the Yorks game? He should be available for at least some of the Sept CC games.
because england dont do one cap wonders anymore. who will come in for him? after this test if you think he will only get 1 game
I agree with you. I think he'll get a run but on the other hand he's only playing because Ballance, who Root wanted in the team, is injured. If Ballance gets fit for the 4th Test perhaps they'll want him back in?
fingers crossed
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Congrats Tom. They had to pick him to justify that their investment in the lions system was working because he's been scoring runs for the lions for a while. God help us in the Championship though, for months we've been worrying about the bowling, now it's the batting where we're struggling. Huge pressure on the likes of Browne and Bopara who are probably our most in form batsman. No doubt Ballance will have magically recovered to take his place in the Yorkshire team at Scarbados!
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Will be missed in the Championship, but his good fortune gives a opportunity to another. Like Cook has, make the county proud in your selection, we wish you well .
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Well done Tom & hope you do very well (would prefer you to play for us though!!), I thought Stoneman would get the nod but seeing as Morkel & Philander seem to prefer bowling to left handers I can understand his selection. I hope that when he comes in to bat Ally is still in as he will undoubtedly help to settle him down.
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Like most, I guess, i have very mixed feelings about this. Thrilled for Tom but worried about our Championship run-in.
Whilst England don't normally do one cap wonders anymore they do seem committed to giving Ballance (yet another) extended chance. I read that his finger may be healed in time for the fourth test. So best case from an Essex point of view is that Tom only misses a bit of Crash Bang Wallop. However I wish Tom well and hope he gives the selectors a selection headache should Ballance recover.
Assuming he is away with England how should we fill the gap ?
I'd move Ravi to three and play Wheater at five. Not sure there are any other options other than moving Lawrence instead of Ravi.
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Tom can now look forward to having his character and technique minutely dissected by "experts" who mostly have never seen him play before. I am sure no one on TMS ever watches a championship match.
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Tom can now look forward to having his character and technique minutely dissected by "experts" who mostly have never seen him play before. I am sure no one on TMS ever watches a championship match.
I reckon you're right, however, I suspect Vic Marks does watch Somerset and Boycott might occasionally watch Yorkshire. I think Chris Martin-Jenkins did watch county championship cricket but I'm pretty sure Agnew never does.
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Tom can now look forward to having his character and technique minutely dissected by "experts" who mostly have never seen him play before. I am sure no one on TMS ever watches a championship match.
I reckon you're right, however, I suspect Vic Marks does watch Somerset and Boycott might occasionally watch Yorkshire. I think Chris Martin-Jenkins did watch county championship cricket but I'm pretty sure Agnew never does.
Same as the selectors then. Bayliss and Gibson have admitted to not watching any CC.
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Aggers was a Leics player & you wouldn't really rush to see them would you? I thought Selectors were supposed to watch County Cricket,, alternatively tap into the knowledge of FC Umpires , generally former players who see everybody close up, they also used to sometimes have a current player as a Selector, Tonker for example filled that capacity late in his playing career, otherwise you get this scenario where the Coach & his staff pick players they don't know anything about by their own admission. It begs the question what does the England coach & his assistant do when there is no Test cricket & County cricket is on??
At least 1 selector should be told to watch County cricket regularly otherwise how can you judge objectively someone you know little or nothing about?
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Selectors do pop up at grounds. Whether they attend with an open mind...anyway they aren't overlooking eccc players. Paper talk has also mentioned Lawrence as he's next generation rather than nearly 30.
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Aggers was a Leics player & you wouldn't really rush to see them would you?
Someone from Notts must watch them as half their team originate from Grace Road.
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Shows how much your game is under the microscope at this level. A cross between Trott and Crawley being a kind assessment .
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Shows how much your game is under the microscope at this level. A cross between Trott and Crawley being a kind assessment .
This penchant for the leg side has been noted for years. Not convinced about Westley in red ball cricket. Lawrence is more likely I'd suggest.
For some bizarre reason, I'm sort of enjoying England's demise - throwing Root the job, then that idiot Vaughan sticking the knife in. With that other Yorkshire idiot (the Gross Grocer) 'running' the game with Strauss I'm almost pining for KP to return. I guess we'd suddenly be Test world beaters if we introduced City T20...
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Shows how much your game is under the microscope at this level. A cross between Trott and Crawley being a kind assessment .
This penchant for the leg side has been noted for years. Not convinced about Westley in red ball cricket. Lawrence is more likely I'd suggest.
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No no you must be wrong. The experts on this forum say that TW is wonderful.
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Shows how much your game is under the microscope at this level. A cross between Trott and Crawley being a kind assessment .
This penchant for the leg side has been noted for years. Not convinced about Westley in red ball cricket. Lawrence is more likely I'd suggest
No no you must be wrong. The experts on this forum say that TW is wonderful.
When did you say that then Nat?
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This penchant for the leg side has been noted for years. Not convinced about Westley in red ball cricket. Lawrence is more likely I'd suggest
No no you must be wrong. The experts on this forum say that TW is wonderful.
When did you say that then Nat?
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Tom is a very good County player who appears to have made the step up from Div2 to Div1 smoothly & averages about 50 this season, his career average whilst only a modest 37 is rising steadily which is relevant, he is no less deserving of a chance than the likes of Malan, Ballance etc, he always has been a strong legside player but in the last couple of seasons has tightened his defence up & added more consistency, I actually think Stoneman maybe should have got the nod but there you go ..
Let's all get behind Tom & hope he succeeds.
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Tom is a very good County player who appears to have made the step up from Div2 to Div1 smoothly & averages about 50 this season, his career average whilst only a modest 37 is rising steadily which is relevant, he is no less deserving of a chance than the likes of Malan, Ballance etc, he always has been a strong legside player but in the last couple of seasons has tightened his defence up & added more consistency, I actually think Stoneman maybe should have got the nod but there you go ..
Let's all get behind Tom & hope he succeeds.
Agreed. However, can't we find county players with proper techniques? Notice most of the players spoken of like Westley can't average 40, which used to be a marker for international cricketers.
Or at least one's whose technique was robust enough - frankly we've never replaced Tresco at the top. A real pity Hameed has fallen apart.
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Blame 1-day cricket (esp. T20) for poor technique. Westley is a 'nick off' and LBW candidate all day long. Trouble is ... there are not enough good bowlers around to exploit his weaknesses often enough. 40 years ago he would have a much lower average than he does now... uncovered pitches, better bowlers.
I'm amazed he is averaging as much as 37 in #propercricket.
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I'm amazed he is averaging as much as 37 in #propercricket.
Harsh.
At least he doesn't hide down the order like Northeast at Kent.
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Does anyone know when was the last time England had three test match debutants ( Westley, Malan and Toby Jones ) in the same game ?
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Does anyone know when was the last time England had three test match debutants ( Westley, Mawlan and Toby Jones ) in the same game ?
Balance, Borthwick and Rankin 2014 Sydney
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Thanks jwb .
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One nice touch was that Tom received his test cap from Goochie .
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One nice touch was that Tom received his test cap from Goochie .
Yes, I saw that and wasn't it also the anniversary of Gooch's 333?
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One nice touch was that Tom received his test cap from Goochie .
Plus the offer of 20% discount off of a new set of hair.
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One nice touch was that Tom received his test cap from Goochie .
Plus the offer of 20% discount off of a new set of hair.
There's always someone with a sarky comment! It's what makes England what it is!
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One nice touch was that Tom received his test cap from Goochie .
Plus the offer of 20% discount off of a new set of hair.
There's always someone with a sarky comment! It's what makes England what it is!
Well men of a certain age who suddenly acquire a thatch and a young girlfriend really are asking for it...!
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Well constructed second innings 59 should keep him in the squad for the final test . Only lost his wicket in trying to up the run rate after lunch . Another solid performance should hopefully claim a place for the Windies series thereafer .
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Congratulations to Tom for surely securing his test spot for the rest of the English summer. Not so good news for our Championship hopes, him and Cooky will miss three games and probably four unless we can knock the Windies over in 3 days and they get permission to head up to Birmingham.
On a side note, god help us if Westley goes to Australia, plays and does well. That would mean no Cook and Westley for the vast majority of the 2018 season, Amir only available to be signed for July when we have no 4 day games, Lawrence and Porter will have Lions duty. I can see a serious relegation battle on the cards for us next year. Then again I thought the same this year...
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Congratulations to Tom for surely securing his test spot for the rest of the English summer. Not so good news for our Championship hopes, him and Cooky will miss three games and probably four unless we can knock the Windies over in 3 days and they get permission to head up to Birmingham.
On a side note, god help us if Westley goes to Australia, plays and does well. That would mean no Cook and Westley for the vast majority of the 2018 season, Amir only available to be signed for July when we have no 4 day games, Lawrence and Porter will have Lions duty. I can see a serious relegation battle on the cards for us next year. Then again I thought the same this year...
Blimey you are an optimistic chap aren't you.
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One nice touch was that Tom received his test cap from Goochie .
Plus the offer of 20% discount off of a new set of hair.
There's always someone with a sarky comment! It's what makes England what it is!
Well men of a certain age who suddenly acquire a thatch and a young girlfriend really are asking for it...!
And if they’ve acquired a young girl-friend, probably getting it!
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Congratulations to Tom for surely securing his test spot for the rest of the English summer. Not so good news for our Championship hopes, him and Cooky will miss three games and probably four unless we can knock the Windies over in 3 days and they get permission to head up to Birmingham.
On a side note, god help us if Westley goes to Australia, plays and does well. That would mean no Cook and Westley for the vast majority of the 2018 season, Amir only available to be signed for July when we have no 4 day games, Lawrence and Porter will have Lions duty. I can see a serious relegation battle on the cards for us next year. Then again I thought the same this year...
Blimey you are an optimistic chap aren't you.
I'm your stereotypical pessimistic Essex fan Nat. Optimism isn't part of my DNA. ;)
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Reading various reports Tom has acquitted himself very well in this Test, batting with patience & no little skill, composure & calmness, noticed he reached his maiden Test 50 with his trademark boundary stroke (no need to say which shot), he will certainly play in the next Test & presumably face the Windies after that. Nasser reckons that those who play in that series are likely to go to Australia which is fair comment.
As Tom hasn't got an ECB contract I can't see any problem with him joining up with Essex after the final Test.
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One nice touch was that Tom received his test cap from Goochie .
Plus the offer of 20% discount off of a new set of hair.
There's always someone with a sarky comment! It's what makes England what it is!
Well men of a certain age who suddenly acquire a thatch and a young girlfriend really are asking for it...!
And if they’ve acquired a young girl-friend, probably getting it!
I say... ding dong old chap!
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I said to Mrs Blocky on Sunday evening " Oh well, I suppose that's the last we'll see of Tom for a few years then".
so pleased for the bloke, so gutted for Essex. and I will not be surprised if we lose Dan as well at some point soon.
We need to get that production line churning again...
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I said to Mrs Blocky on Sunday evening " Oh well, I suppose that's the last we'll see of Tom for a few years then".
so pleased for the bloke, so gutted for Essex. and I will not be surprised if we lose Dan as well at some point soon.
We need to get that production line churning again...
He did well for his first test but plenty of others have had good starts and fallen away. Jennings scored a 100 in his 1st Test and looks on borrowed time. Sam Robson and Adam Lyth scored centuries in their 2nd Tests and were dropped soon after. Lancashire fans probably didn't think they'd see much of Hameed after last winter. 5 Tests away against Australia is a huge test for anyone. We normally struggle out there and there's normally plenty of changes after the series. Westley has become a good county player who may or may not become a good Tes one.
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Most importantly, the fact is that the important point is you can get into the England team from a "small" club. Sounds like both cook and Taylor are really impressive.
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Most importantly, the fact is that the important point is you can get into the England team from a "small" club. Sounds like both cook and Taylor are really impressive.
Not a small club at all. Just that the previous management thought 'small'. Hopefully the new management has bigger ambitions.
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Not a small club at all.
Indeed.
Somerset are the bench mark for Essex.
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Not a small club at all.
Indeed.
Somerset are the bench mark for Essex.
Not this year if they get relegated ,they're not!!
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Before Cook and Westley batted together in the third test, presume the last time two Essex players batted together in a England game ever Cook and Bopara . Can anyone confirm ?
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Before Cook and Westley batted together in the third test, presume the last time two Essex players batted together in a England game ever Cook and Bopara . Can anyone confirm ?
I saw Cook and Bopara batting together against the West Indies at Lords in 2009. Ravi came in at three and scored 143 they put on 64 for the second wicket. Ravi played a few more tests after that so it may have happened again.
I think people expected him to have a long test career but his big scores came against a weak Windies team and he was found out against the Aussies. I can see Tom filling his boots against the WIndies as well but hope he fares better than Ravi against quality opposition.
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We saw Cook & Bopara batting together v West Indies at Chester-le-Street in 2009, in the next test after Lord's. They both scored centuries.
Lynda and Steve
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Not a small club at all.
Indeed.
Somerset are the bench mark for Essex.
Not this year if they get relegated ,they're not!!
In general they are.
The under achievement that was tolerated at Essex wasn't that long ago.
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Most importantly, the fact is that the important point is you can get into the England team from a "small" club. Sounds like both cook and Taylor are really impressive.
Not a small club at all. Just that the previous management thought 'small'. Hopefully the new management has bigger ambitions.
Spot on that. People just assume we're a small club because of our ground. Our support is far bigger than our ground suggests as we prove when we play in London, not to mention our history of major honours and England cricketers produced, which include England's highest ever run scorer and arguably England greatest batsman of all time just to name two. We've been let down in recent history as Nat said by lack of ambition from the previous management (both playing and executive staff).
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Anyway back on topic ...
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just watched Westley get out a la typical. Ain't no Ashes player.
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Looks like TW (LBW Cummins 8) will be available for Essex's remaining games after all.
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Looks like TW (LBW Cummins 8) will be available for Essex's remaining games after all.
To be fair, most on here aren't surprised. If he's going to make it for England it is in the white ball game - ditto Malan. Just don't understand the fixation selectors have had for certain players - and clubs.
Poor old Compton. Got dropped for podging around but by far the most successful partnership with chef.
Gubbings next?
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Even if Westley fails again in the second innings (although there may well not be the need for England to bat again!) I'm sure he will be given at least one more test before he is dropped.
I have to agree though that it doesnt really look like he's quite good enough to establish himself in the England test side.
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We need to give new players a chance to settle. Far too easy in this media, twitter, troll world to pass judgement when you know very little about the pressures/the step up etc etc
I wonder how today's social media would have reacted to GG's faltering steps at test level
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2362622/From-double-duck-debut-to-ball-of-the-century.html
Actually, I do know
Tom may be good enough. I hope so. But how sad to see on the message board of the county he plays for negative comments appearing so soon
Rise above it Tom and show the doubters that they are as wrong as they usually are
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We need to give new players a chance to settle. Far too easy in this media, twitter, troll world to pass judgement when you know very little about the pressures/the step up etc etc
I wonder how today's social media would have reacted to GG's faltering steps at test level
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2362622/From-double-duck-debut-to-ball-of-the-century.html
Actually, I do know
Tom may be good enough. I hope so. But how sad to see on the message board of the county he plays for negative comments appearing so soon
Rise above it Tom and show the doubters that they are as wrong as they usually are
Neil, there was a general opinion on here that Westley wasn't that great at the red ball game - ditto Malan. His technical limitations are blindingly obvious already. Shudder to think what the Aussie quicks will do to our batting this winter.
Not sure of the relevance of the comparison with GG. The game is different, even red ball, and particularly the greater emphasis placed upon providing a developmental path for talent is far different from an era when there wasn't a Lions team. Arguably, GG needed a kick up the 'Arris early in his career (provided when Denness got him moved up to open with him) and tended to fritter his talent up until he got the England captaincy. Clearly Tom has been involved with England for some time now whereas the likes of Gooch and Fletch were picked and dropped without a bye or leave.
Comparisons with Chef are better because they are playing in the same era. I'd suggest GG basically told AC to play like the 1990s Gooch - cut out the risky shots and get stuck in. AC has had his fair share of poor runs: the captaincy not helping, but he'd established a technique and temperament that worked, albeit needing some 'tweaks' at times.
Westley's big problem is that he's almost having to open. Personally, I still think someone like Hales needs to play in the top order - Tufnell's point about Hales needing to play his natural game rather than try to be another Cook is interesting. If that came off, that would take pressure off of the number 3.
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We need to give new players a chance to settle. Far too easy in this media, twitter, troll world to pass judgement when you know very little about the pressures/the step up etc etc
I wonder how today's social media would have reacted to GG's faltering steps at test level
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2362622/From-double-duck-debut-to-ball-of-the-century.html
Actually, I do know
Tom may be good enough. I hope so. But how sad to see on the message board of the county he plays for negative comments appearing so soon
Rise above it Tom and show the doubters that they are as wrong as they usually are
Neil, there was a general opinion on here that Westley wasn't that great at the red ball game - ditto Malan. His technical limitations are blindingly obvious already. Shudder to think what the Aussie quicks will do to our batting this winter.
Not sure of the relevance of the comparison with GG. The game is different, even red ball, and particularly the greater emphasis placed upon providing a developmental path for talent is far different from an era when there wasn't a Lions team. Arguably, GG needed a kick up the 'Arris early in his career (provided when Denness got him moved up to open with him) and tended to fritter his talent up until he got the England captaincy. Clearly Tom has been involved with England for some time now whereas the likes of Gooch and Fletch were picked and dropped without a bye or leave.
Comparisons with Chef are better because they are playing in the same era. I'd suggest GG basically told AC to play like the 1990s Gooch - cut out the risky shots and get stuck in. AC has had his fair share of poor runs: the captaincy not helping, but he'd established a technique and temperament that worked, albeit needing some 'tweaks' at times.
Westley's big problem is that he's almost having to open. Personally, I still think someone like Hales needs to play in the top order - Tufnell's point about Hales needing to play his natural game rather than try to be another Cook is interesting. If that came off, that would take pressure off of the number 3.
The Aussies bowling is no better than the South Africans. We generally went ok against them.
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In the one test when Philander was somewhere near fully-fit,England were mullered.The Australian attack will be appreciably better,especially on their pitches.Though Stokes and possibly Bairstow might get some quick runs occasionally,Cook and Root are our only two reliable test batsmen.The rest of all those tried are not up to the job-and ,as people who watch Essex regularly should know,includes Westley.
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The Aussies bowling is no better than the South Africans. We generally went ok against them.
I'm not sure. Arguably people have over estimated the Saffer bowling as a test for the Ashes. Rabada et al are OK but with no Steyn and lacking a fit Philander at crucial times we did OK. When Philander was even half fit we struggled. Clearly the Windies are played their 3rd string team, but imagine if Philander stayed off the pies and the Saffers had borrowed Roach?