Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Off-Topic => 100 Ball Franchise => Topic started by: bwildered on January 18, 2017, 07:51:07 PM
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ECB have a development group working up the details of the competition, including commercial structure, venues and operations , day to day running and grassroots link.
Sufficient details to be provided to Chairman and CEO 's on March 27th .
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There is a fairly lengthy article in The Times today setting out the proposed format. If anyone who sees it understands it please let me know. Although I do get the bit about not being city based.
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From the article, seems that some county chairman had some concerns . ECB want a totally separate identity from the local county sides,nothing new there, but some counties where uncomfortable that their players would play elsewhere and each franchise side would play within a area of two / three counties .
The broadcast tender must show live on free to air TV a certain amount of matches. But at the same time counties would be playing 50 over cricket and England test cricket at the same time seems like cricket overload even for the most dedicated cricket fan .
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From the article, seems that some county chairman had some concerns . ECB want a totally separate identity from the local county sides,nothing new there, but some counties where uncomfortable that their players would play elsewhere and each franchise side would play within a area of two / three counties .
The broadcast tender must show live on free to air TV a certain amount of matches. But at the same time counties would be playing 50 over cricket and England test cricket at the same time seems like cricket overload even for the most dedicated cricket fan .
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But could you get your head around who is allowed to coach who where and when?
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No , jwb .
Seems at present nobody knows, has coaches and support staff have to be released by counties who are happy to do so .
Moving away from just city venues to others will butter up the county chairman of those non test venues .
Cannot see the ECB getting a sponsor for the 50 over competition if played at the same time and will become a sitting duck .
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Essex,Surrey,Kent and Sussex all voting against by all accounts.
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Jason Roy will be disappointed.
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Constitutional changes made by ECB this week will inevitably lead to the franchise format being passed in April .
Vote to accept the deal guarantees 1.3 million from the ECB and not having to pay those players who participate while away . Can any county not afford to turn down the deal ?
Money talks , nothing else matters .
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Sussex have now bottled it.
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The changes seem doomed to happen with or without Sussex-the change to the ECB consititution, which is necessary to allow competitions in which not all members take part (ie the City based T20) will be backed by a majority of first class counties plus all the minor counties, who will just take the cash and run, plus MCC. Chief Execs meet at Lord's today, so maybe ours will enlighten us at tomorrow's AGM.
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Let's not forget all yes voters will receive 1.3 million additionally to their usual allocation from ECB yearly payout .
Can anyone enlighten me how much that is ?
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Perhaps the best thing to do is for the 'smaller clubs' to take their opportunities this season to demonstrate the need for their existence.
This whole City Franchise farce is based upon the idea that there's a need to focus the monies upon the 'usual suspects' because the rest don't produce quality players and teams. Clearly, the likes of ECCC can already demonstrate that they produce the former and need to demonstrate that they can do the latter in D1. Or am I being naïve (don't answer...)
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So apparently all eighteen counties have signed media rights deeds to enable the ECB to include the new T20 competition in the next media rights negotiations.
So Essex have sold out their membership and the wider cricket watching public.
Turkeys voting for Christmas.
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So apparently all eighteen counties have signed media rights deeds to enable the ECB to include the new T20 competition in the next media rights negotiations.
So Essex have sold out their membership and the wider cricket watching public.
Turkeys voting for Christmas.
It was always said that the turkeys wouldn't vote that way, guess Botham, Atherton, Willis et al will be happy tonight.
Will one of the city teams be based in Dubai, that seems to be where the ECB are moving English cricket.
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Well the BBC have been bigging this up - and were then quite surprised by the negtaive reaction they were getting from cricket fans according to radio 5 earlier. Typical of the media in many ways - they don't seem to appreciate that ordinary people increasingly can see through spin, whether imparted by politicians, broadcasters, sports bodies or whoever.
It seems to me this is a huge gamble by the ECB. Rather than building on their core audience they're going after a a new one - the 18 million sporting families (whatever that means), not many of whon attend cricket. Anothre issue is that made up sports teams rarely work in this country - Murdoch's attempts to introduce Rugby League franchises failed, for example. We shall see.
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So apparently all eighteen counties have signed media rights deeds to enable the ECB to include the new T20 competition in the next media rights negotiations.
So Essex have sold out their membership and the wider cricket watching public.
Turkeys voting for Christmas.
We may find out tonight at the AGM.
If the next round of media rights negotiations includes a decent amount of free-to-view coverage of ‘proper cricket' I shall be very happy.
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So apparently all eighteen counties have signed media rights deeds to enable the ECB to include the new T20 competition in the next media rights negotiations.
So Essex have sold out their membership and the wider cricket watching public.
Turkeys voting for Christmas.
...
If the next round of media rights negotiations includes a decent amount of free-to-view coverage of ‘proper cricket' I shall be very happy.
Dream on.
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Down with this sort of thing.
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Down with this sort of thing.
Careful now.
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The Chair was on BBC Look East yesterday, and said that he wants to get the views of members about all this. He said that there would be a members' forum one evening, and (possibly) also one at lunchtime during the Lancashire match.
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The Chair was on BBC Look East yesterday, and said that he wants to get the views of members about all this. He said that there would be a members' forum one evening, and (possibly) also one at lunchtime during the Lancashire match.
Isn't it a fait accompli. If people don't like it they will say, "we take your views on board and will take them into account along with the other stake holders".
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The Chair was on BBC Look East yesterday, and said that he wants to get the views of members about all this. He said that there would be a members' forum one evening, and (possibly) also one at lunchtime during the Lancashire match.
Isn't it a fait accompli. If people don't like it they will say, "we take your views on board and will take them into account along with the other stake holders".
The Chair made it clear that he and our Committee were not happy about the plan. When asked whether Atherton, who wrote in the Times that everyone was in favour, was right or wrong, our Chair saod that Atherton didn’t speak for everyone.
Having said that, I think the ECB are hell-bent on doing this, as the see it as a massive cash-cow and a means of making cricket more widely watched. It must have escaped their attention that ‘minority’ sports which were featured in the TV London and Rio Olympics are getting more participants, whereas those which are which are only on Pay TV are not!
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If nothing else Essex are getting mentioned a lot in the press re the new formats. Even the Sun!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/3201130/essex-twenty20-ecb/
Did John really say he would take the member's views into account at the AGM? i thought that was Thursday's meeting was about!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-4358344/Elitist-Twenty20-ruin-says-Essex-chairman.html
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The ECB - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
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The ECB - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
No, they don't actually know the price, they make it up.
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Well that's it then the wonderful ECB has sold the Counties down the river, buying them off with the promise of £1.3m pa each until 2021, what happens after that?
I reckon more & more players will specialise in T20 in future bearing in mind the riches on offer, let's hope some of them go to the existing County T20 but I doubt it!!
TBH I really cannot see that many current T20 fans & certainly not fans of the longer game following Franchises - I certainly won't!!
I wonder what price structure there will be for match tickets as they must be cheap enough to attract fans but dear enough to make a profit, nothing has been said as yet!
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If nothing else Essex are getting mentioned a lot in the press re the new formats. Even the Sun!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/3201130/essex-twenty20-ecb/
Did John really say he would take the member's views into account at the AGM? i thought that was Thursday's meeting was about!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-4358344/Elitist-Twenty20-ruin-says-Essex-chairman.html
There wasn't a lot of discussion at the AGM; it was made clear that the meetings on 28th and 6th will be important. However I didn't get the impression that the Chairman had a divided meeting.
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Less can be more-I dont watch all the IPL games and did not watch all the Big Bash -you can have too much of a good thing -think the only ones that will make out of it will be the 20/20 "specialists".
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Murdoch's attempts to introduce Rugby League franchises failed, for example.
In this country.
It worked to an extent in Australia & the Big Bash is the template the ECB are obviously cribbing.
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I had to laugh when one of the proponents of the city-based T20 said that the £1.3m per year the counties would receive would allow them to develop the game in their locality.
I know where the £1.3m will be going and it won't be for the wider benefit of the game.
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Murdoch's attempts to introduce Rugby League franchises failed, for example.
In this country.
It worked to an extent in Australia & the Big Bash is the template the ECB are obviously cribbing.
In the Big Bash they basically used the 6 state teams that we already used and added another team in Melbourne and another in Sydney.
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I had to laugh when one of the proponents of the city-based T20 said that the £1.3m per year the counties would receive would allow them to develop the game in their locality.
I know where the £1.3m will be going and it won't be for the wider benefit of the game.
Just resting in the account of...?
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Murdoch's attempts to introduce Rugby League franchises failed, for example.
In this country.
It worked to an extent in Australia & the Big Bash is the template the ECB are obviously cribbing.
Difference with Big Bash, surely, is that, with the exception of the Sydney area, the big centres of population are reasonably compact and big when compared with ‘the rest’. I can imagine some at least in Essex identifying with a North London team ....... although I wouldn’t ...... but Liverpudlians supporting a Manchester team? Dream on. Or Bradford/Sheffield being happy with Leeds? If the Leeds side was called the Yorkshire Roses, of course, they might get away with it, but then it wouldn’t be a ‘Leeds’ team.
In any event unless it’s on 'free to view’ TV it won’t do anything to publicise the game.
In the Big Bash they basically used the 6 state teams that we already used and added another team in Melbourne and another in Sydney.
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I had to laugh when one of the proponents of the city-based T20 said that the £1.3m per year the counties would receive would allow them to develop the game in their locality.
I know where the £1.3m will be going and it won't be for the wider benefit of the game.
Just resting in the account of...?
A good long rest.
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Actually, if the ECB followed the 'principles' of the BBL I wouldn't mind, it is that they've lazily tried to copy the 'structure' almost verbatim with no understanding of the different cultural and practical context in the UK.
The BBL has tried to spread the 'brand' of cricket back to perhaps an audience jaded by success and certainly a public whose sporting interests focus upon Aussie Rules and Rugby as well as increasingly that other form of football. Not all the ideas (e.g. free to view) were in the original plans, but have emerged as critical to success. It's that pragmatism that is required here - given poor decisions by the ECB and deleterious trends in wider society (e.g. schools sports policies etc.).
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Well it seems to me that the focus on cities is a mistake - most people don't live in them! I suppose the ECB think that is where the new audience lies and one presumes they've done extensive research to establish that they will tap into that market. I read the other day that 37% of the population of London were born outside the UK, which suggests that's not such a wonderful pond to fish in?
I would have gone for a two division county competition played in a block, with promotion and relegation (including play offs) and a finals day, which seems to be what our Chairman advocates.
If we must have super teams why not combined teams, say 6 teams each combining 3 counties, with every county hosting at least one match. At least that would take the games around the country rather than focusing on six or seven big cities. It would also provide a direct link with the county game. An Essex/Middlesex/Surrey team might play 2 games at Stratford and one at Lords, Chelmsford and The Oval for example. The northern team Lancs/Yorks/Durham would have three international grounds to play on and maybe take a game to Scarborough. Of course this will never, ever happen.
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The combined team idea is excellent, Slogger: retaining the loyalties of county fans whilst still producing a 'super' competition, and making the games accessible to the maximum number of people. Maybe three players from each county plus two superstars (if that is what's needed to attract the crowds), which would mean that no county felt they were upstaged by another. As you say, it will never happen.
Lynda and Steve
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It's a busted flush. Michael Vaughan trotted out some stats - current average attendance of 7,500 for T20 county games. Not good enough he says (level of League 2 football).
I say ... 7,500 x 18 counties = 130, 000 spectators.
So are 8 city-based teams going to attract more than 130k spectators? i.e. an average per game of 16k. I'd bet my house they won't.
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MV is a moron.
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Isnt the idea that every county will be linked to a team (so as said, one of the sides could be an Essex/Middlesex side)??
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Isnt the idea that every county will be linked to a team (so as said, one of the sides could be an Essex/Middlesex side)??
Half of them at Lords half at Chelmsford.
Yeah, right!!!!!!
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Isnt the idea that every county will be linked to a team (so as said, one of the sides could be an Essex/Middlesex side)??
I don't think so. They're saying a Yorkshire player could be 'bought' by a London franchise! That'll please Fred Boycott.
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The various ideas listed above fall down due to the fact that they try to find a compromise between the slash and burn of the ECB and the loyalties of existing supporters, however the ECB are not interested in compromise or existing supporters, Michael Vaughan's magic number is going to be even harder to attain due to the fact that some existing T20 watchers won't bother with the new competition and as we know it is a complete red herring to judge the validity of cricket attendance through comparison to football . If that criteria is used them out goes rugby union, league, horse racing, athletics and any sport that fails to attract 40,000 plus to every domestic fixture, indeed if Vaughan thinks a division two attendance level is inadequate then presumably he thinks football itself from that division down is not justifiable.
Incidentally, I read somewhere that 75% of the general public make up three quarters of the population.
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Isnt the idea that every county will be linked to a team (so as said, one of the sides could be an Essex/Middlesex side)??
Half of them at Lords half at Chelmsford.
Yeah, right!!!!!!
I didnt say that games would be split at both grounds, I said that every county would be linked to a Franchise. Something like
Durham/Yorks - Headingley
Lancs/ Derby - Old Trafford
Notts/Leics/Northampton - T Bridge
Warks/Worcs - Edgbaston
Glams/ Gloucs (Either ground would do)
Somerset/Hants - Rose Bowl
Sussex/Kent/Surrey - Oval
Essex/Middx - Lords
3 O/S players and the idea (hope) is that each side is mostly made up of players connected to the sides involved (ie, the Ess/Middx side is drawn from players that play for those sides)
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I am not too sure.
Several people have been told that the players will be signed by the franchise with the highest bid. It could be possible that Root would play for a south team and so on!
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I am not too sure.
Several people have been told that the players will be signed by the franchise with the highest bid. It could be possible that Root would play for a south team and so on!
Throwing money at mediocre players. That's the way to take game forward sustainably.
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Thing about cities is that while people may not live in them they work in them. If you get your timing and marketing right you may well pick up the "after workers". A few of my mates have become Surrey supporters and go for the afternoon/evening
This whole thing seems to rely on getting new "customers" while maintaining at least some of the existing supporter base. I'm not over convinced - I like the two division fewer number of games suggestions and the points about the Big Bash are valid - although I must say I prefer it to the IPL. But, we do have to do something about cricket and it's finances - and we have to get more youngsters involved
I was watching the LPGA tournament this weekend and the commentators were talking about Michelle Wie. They were saying that her personality and way she dresses may attract, much needed, younger participants to golf. Whether we veterans like it or not what folks are looking for these days in sport is a whole lot different to what we see,
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If we're relying on people 'seeing' the new T20 competition, and those taking part, before they consider coming to watch a match live, we could be waiting a long time, unless they catch the few terrestrial matches being shown.
Our understanding is that there will be no links to the counties at all, apart from some of their grounds being used for the matches. Any player could be bought by any team, so you could go to your nearest venue - which might even be your home ground - and not see a single player from the county you support. If it's a choice of paying to see (and, possibly paying extra to go to another county's ground) a match with few, if any, of your county's players, or going to your home ground and watching your own team play, we know which we would choose.
Lynda and Steve
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If we're relying on people 'seeing' the new T20 competition, and those taking part, before they consider coming to watch a match live, we could be waiting a long time, unless they catch the few terrestrial matches being shown.
Our understanding is that there will be no links to the counties at all, apart from some of their grounds being used for the matches. Any player could be bought by any team, so you could go to your nearest venue - which might even be your home ground - and not see a single player from the county you support. If it's a choice of paying to see (and, possibly paying extra to go to another county's ground) a match with few, if any, of your county's players, or going to your home ground and watching your own team play, we know which we would choose.
Lynda and Steve
Well yes - and I agree. But anything new will be relying on new folks "buying in". Otherwise we may just as well stick with what we've got (not particularly arguing against that!)
Actually you make another interesting point. I am an Essex fan marooned in deepest darkest Kent. I am not that far from Canterbury and have thought occasionally about going there. But, somehow........Now if there was a 20-20 franchise there I might be tempted
There is this whole distinction between existing fans and newcomers that is the difficult bridge to cross!
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Ah, Michelle Wie. Apparently she plays golf too.
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Did anyone go to the Forum on 30th? Or is anyone planning to go to that on Thursday?
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Ah, Michelle Wie. Apparently she plays golf too.
Yes. She does. Not sure of your point? 8) 8)
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Did anyone go to the Forum on 30th? Or is anyone planning to go to that on Thursday?
I did - it was interesting in that John's the club seems to be taking the approach that we will not vote for the change but once it comes we will accept what happens and try to capatilise it. It was suggested that we might try to convince the ECB to use our ground for the tournament.
It seems that, as noted above, we could lose players to this tournament and test cricket - leaving us with a second rate team for the 50 overs. At the end a vote (non binding) was taken - the majority said against - there were a handful of accept and vote for the change.
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Did anyone go to the Forum on 30th? Or is anyone planning to go to that on Thursday?
.... It was suggested that we might try to convince the ECB to use our ground for the tournament.
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Really what planet are these people on?! As if the ECB are going to use a ground located outside a major city and that holds 6000 people.
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There was talk of some out grounds being used at previous meeting to appease Chairman of smaller counties , who where worried of missing the boat , they where also worried that their better player who have there heads turned by playing a bigger venues .
Just like Bash / IPL anyone franchise can sign / bid for anyone within the constraints of the budget .
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Now if there was a 20-20 franchise there I might be tempted
Wrong on so many levels.
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Now if there was a 20-20 franchise there I might be tempted
Wrong on so many levels.
Why?
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Because it involves watching T20 in Canterbury.
Next you'll be telling me you'll have a couple of pints of Master Brew to wash it down with. ;)
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Ah, Michelle Wie. Apparently she plays golf too.
Yes. She does. Not sure of your point? 8) 8)
You've not seen Ms Wie in action?
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Ah, Michelle Wie. Apparently she plays golf too.
Yes. She does. Not sure of your point? 8) 8)
You've not seen Ms Wie in action?
Indeed I have
She is a super golfer now she has sorted out her putting problems. And a pretty good role model too...
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Because it involves watching T20 in Canterbury.
Next you'll be telling me you'll have a couple of pints of Master Brew to wash it down with. ;)
And that's wrong because?
I'd be drinking in a Shep Neame pub near Canterbury West Station. The Bishops Finger
Decent choice of ales (and ciders) and excellent food. A goodish walk to the ground but worth it - especially given the queues you get inside. Not a lover of MasterBrew but some of their other ales are really good
But, of course, Essex beer is better - because it comes from Essex (or is it brewed in Suffolk) ? ;D ;D
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Ah, Canterbury, my old stamping ground. I hear they've built on the old greyhound track :'(
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Ah, Canterbury, my old stamping ground. I hear they've built on the old greyhound track :'(
I was only there the Saturday before last. The Marlowe Theatre is very good!
Not my favourite place - a bit touristy and the restaurants are a bit samey - although there are one or two gems if you know where to look
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Ah, Canterbury, my old stamping ground. I hear they've built on the old greyhound track :'(
I was only there the Saturday before last. The Marlowe Theatre is very good!
Not my favourite place - a bit touristy and the restaurants are a bit samey - although there are one or two gems if you know where to look
I was a student there, hence I knew where to get the best Cod/Chicken and Chips. Walked up Tyler Hill many, many times and it never seemed to rain...
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The cricket ground at Canterbury has been utterly ruined.
Many trees have been felled and the part by the road has been sold off for McCarthy and Stone retirement flats [handy for the Kent team?]. No parking for visitors these days - I used the Park & Ride as it's cheaper than parking in the school next door [£10 a day].
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Did anyone attend Chairman's Q & A session during lunchtime on Sunday during Lancashire ?
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Because it involves watching T20 in Canterbury.
Next you'll be telling me you'll have a couple of pints of Master Brew to wash it down with. ;)
And that's wrong because?
I'd be drinking in a Shep Neame pub near Canterbury West Station. The Bishops Finger
Decent choice of ales (and ciders) and excellent food. A goodish walk to the ground but worth it - especially given the queues you get inside. Not a lover of MasterBrew but some of their other ales are really good
But, of course, Essex beer is better - because it comes from Essex (or is it brewed in Suffolk) ? ;D ;D
sorry mate, we put up with shitandscream's awful beer for about the last 8 years at the county ground. I don't care where it comes from, it's awful.
The St Lawrence Ground lost it's last nice feature when they built a massive block of flats on the Hill. ground looks terrible now. Even the tree is outside the boundary.
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Speaking of beer, are we all aware of this funraiser coming up on the 25th May?
http://www.lordstaverners.org/a/js/third_party/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/filemanager/files/ESSEX_LORDS_25_MAY_EVENT.pdf
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Did anyone attend Chairman's Q & A session during lunchtime on Sunday during Lancashire ?
Yes was there - from memory..
In the main same message as before. The club are continuing to vote against but accept it will happen.
As it is going to happen the club will have no choice but to move forward based on the decision.
Club would have liked a two tier county T20 with promotion and relegation and maybe more overseas to beef it up.
The 50 over competition will be played during the franchise tournament but no Championship cricket.
The club have to release players if selected. Same with coaches, so if Silverwood was selected we would release him.
Grounds hosting will get £300k-400k on top of the £1.3m plus hospitality beer etc. I wasn't sure about the gate money?
No talk to date about further reducing County Championship.
A member made a good point about impact on long format due to it all being played early and late season, no turning wickets etc.
Chairman agreed membership was badly devalued by 2nd rate 50 over comp and thought many would choose to pay on gate.
ECB sent a delegation to Chelmsford to try to get us on board two weeks ago... left in no doubt that wouldn't happen.
Show of hands was unanimously in favour of club
My thoughts -
A good effort by the chairman and the club to meet the members, it ran over into the start of the afternoon session.
There was much nodding when chairman referred to T20 as bish, bash, bosh.. but by nature we were lovers of long format. The match attendance yesterday was 1100 people and I would say at least 75% were 50 years or older, that is not sustainable anymore than bish, bash, bosh. Tricky!
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It's good we are continuing to oppose it. The Lancashire members I spoke to [some ex-Committee] told me they have not been consulted and were envious that we have been asked our opinion.
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Did anyone attend Chairman's Q & A session during lunchtime on Sunday during Lancashire ?
... and I would say at least 75% were 50 years or older, that is not sustainable anymore than bish, bash, bosh. Tricky!
Why unsustainable? The population is ageing and they are the group with the most money to spend. I would have thought going after the grey pound was a sound business objective.
We need to stop being defeatist about CC cricket. With a little effort more people could be attracted to watch CC cricket.
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I agree that the 4-day game could be marketed better - it is popular with many people.
I had to queue to get in on Friday and there were over 2000 people there. :)
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Did anyone attend Chairman's Q & A session during lunchtime on Sunday during Lancashire ?
Yes was there - from memory..
In the main same message as before. The club are continuing to vote against but accept it will happen.
As it is going to happen the club will have no choice but to move forward based on the decision.
Club would have liked a two tier county T20 with promotion and relegation and maybe more overseas to beef it up.
The 50 over competition will be played during the franchise tournament but no Championship cricket.
The club have to release players if selected. Same with coaches, so if Silverwood was selected we would release him.
Grounds hosting will get £300k-400k on top of the £1.3m plus hospitality beer etc. I wasn't sure about the gate money?
No talk to date about further reducing County Championship.
A member made a good point about impact on long format due to it all being played early and late season, no turning wickets etc.
Chairman agreed membership was badly devalued by 2nd rate 50 over comp and thought many would choose to pay on gate.
ECB sent a delegation to Chelmsford to try to get us on board two weeks ago... left in no doubt that wouldn't happen.
Show of hands was unanimously in favour of club
My thoughts -
A good effort by the chairman and the club to meet the members, it ran over into the start of the afternoon session.
There was much nodding when chairman referred to T20 as bish, bash, bosh.. but by nature we were lovers of long format. The match attendance yesterday was 1100 people and I would say at least 75% were 50 years or older, that is not sustainable anymore than bish, bash, bosh. Tricky!
thanks for this, very useful. Unfortunately, I was unable to get there before lunch, but I agree, we should continue to oppose, and I agree with the clubs proposal. I actually don't mind T20, but I shan't support Franchise cricket.
The age demographics should worry anyone with even half a brain. We have to get younger, working membership numbers up. The move to Friday starts and a Day night championship game is a start, but we have to get away from the mindset that 4 day cricket is only for the privileged few and our OAP members. I'm 52 and I have been the youngest person in the ground at times last season. Really a concern.
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I agree that the 4-day game could be marketed better - it is popular with many people.
I had to queue to get in on Friday and there were over 2000 people there. :)
I agree - it would help if the ECB thought about the working public. I work Monday to Friday. As I have said elsewhere I was able to get to the game this weekend - next time I will get to the ground will be for the One Dayer at the end of the month. Then there is another weekend in May I can get to.
As I am on holiday over the May bank holiday that is five days cricket for my membership.
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I'd disagree entirely Nat. With respect, the OAP members generally, bring a packed lunch, a flask of tea and rarely go near the bar unless its to use the ablutions or to refill the flask. Not all, but many.
Most of them are life members who bought their package many years ago, and the club gets little annualised income.
The age group you really want to get after are the 40+ group, who will pay an annual membership, use the bars, buy t20 tickets and bring their kids along.
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Did anyone attend Chairman's Q & A session during lunchtime on Sunday during Lancashire ?
... and I would say at least 75% were 50 years or older, that is not sustainable anymore than bish, bash, bosh. Tricky!
Why unsustainable? The population is ageing and they are the group with the most money to spend. I would have thought going after the grey pound was a sound business objective.
We need to stop being defeatist about CC cricket. With a little effort more people could be attracted to watch CC cricket.
I just don't see a way forward for CC beyond this latest generation of players. I looked around the Q&A session yesterday and thought 'how many here will see out the careers of Beard and Lawrence' (yes I know that is the extreme of defeatist). Attendance for this attractive fixture in the sun topped out at 2000 on Friday. That is not enough to sustain a professional sports team. I think my gripe is with what I believe is a unrealistic and slightly snooty attitude to the 'bish bash bosh', I didn't agree with the massed head nodding when it was referred to as such. I love proper cricket but sadly not enough do and I don't see that changing, so what happens in 20 years when that top crowd is 500 rather than 2000? Think it is more sad than defeatist but I really hope you are right and the CC has a great future.
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I doubt there will be any "proper cricket" in 20 years. I'm trying to think of a comparison, is there a sport no longer played that was once very popular ? T20 does not and will not help other forms of the game survive, the big question is will T20 survive as it is built on the attendance of people who have no real interest in the game and treat it as a once in a blue moon distraction and bit of fun, a break from watching the sports they do care about.
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I doubt there will be any "proper cricket" in 20 years. I'm trying to think of a comparison, is there a sport no longer played that was once very popular ? T20 does not and will not help other forms of the game survive, the big question is will T20 survive as it is built on the attendance of people who have no real interest in the game and treat it as a once in a blue moon distraction and bit of fun, a break from watching the sports they do care about.
T20 is the equivalent of baseball. It could survive in its own right.
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Problem with T20 is that it's seen as the panacea for other problems - lack of FTA coverage and the decline of schools cricket being at the forefront. TBH I see T20 as the replacement for the 40 over game because the latter was very much seen as a 'populist' move back in 1969, but was the driver for improved incomes for counties and eventually players.
Agree that the generation of players we have now has to be persevered with - we need the returnees to return to form especially as Chef is hors de combat. We might see Fossie back, Wheater must see he's basically been cast aside by Hants and we might have to look for a younger keeper with Fossie filling-in this year. I'd prefer to see AW improve but Blenkstein's words were troubling.
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Golden Duck's summary of the Q&A, was very accurate.
I think we all agree that T20 is here to stay, what we are objecting to is the creation of 8 artificial city based teams. Sport is about supporting a local side/county and following them over a lifetime highs and lows.
If (or should it be when) the city franchise starts who are you going to follow/support? You can imagine the scenario where Essex players are playing for different franchise's, who do you support?
A number of years ago the ECB dropped the 40 over completion to have a strong 50 over domestic competition " to enable players to be prepared for the 50 over world cup". That seems to have gone out of the window now, with the 50 over completion nothing more 2nd rate completion for the players that don't pick up a city franchise contract.
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Golden Duck's summary of the Q&A, was very accurate.
I think we all agree that T20 is here to stay, what we are objecting to is the creation of 8 artificial city based teams. Sport is about supporting a local side/county and following them over a lifetime highs and lows.
If (or should it be when) the city franchise starts who are you going to follow/support? You can imagine the scenario where Essex players are playing for different franchise's, who do you support?
A number of years ago the ECB dropped the 40 over completion to have a strong 50 over domestic competition " to enable players to be prepared for the 50 over world cup". That seems to have gone out of the window now, with the 50 over completion nothing more 2nd rate completion for the players that don't pick up a city franchise contract.
In other words ... the ECB (aka Strauss) don't know what they're doing.
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One point I forgot in my original post. Existing T20 Blast will continue. I think it was said this will be before the new T20 and will have 2 fewer games. Not sure if that was 2 fewer home games or 2 fewer in total. Tis a lot of T20 for sure!
Good points well made from Hutton Eagle, despite one or two of my posts reading like I support City cricket..I don't..well unless there is a team at Stratford and it benefits Essex :)
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..., despite one or two of my posts reading like I support City cricket..I don't..well unless there is a team at Stratford and it benefits Essex :)
That's the problem with this attitude, the ECB are seeking to divide and rule.
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I doubt there will be any "proper cricket" in 20 years. I'm trying to think of a comparison, is there a sport no longer played that was once very popular ? T20 does not and will not help other forms of the game survive, the big question is will T20 survive as it is built on the attendance of people who have no real interest in the game and treat it as a once in a blue moon distraction and bit of fun, a break from watching the sports they do care about.
T20 is the equivalent of baseball. It could survive in its own right.
I understand what you are saying but I think T20 is well short of baseball standard. Baseball attempts an even contest between bat and ball, pitchers are allowed to be highly skilled rather that set up to be fodder for batsmen and baseball values its own traditions whereas cricket authorities seem to want to wipe all trace of tradition off the map. I for one would not hesitate to go to a baseball game but I would avoid a T20 game like the plague. At the risk of offending people again T20 is kids cricket compared to the first class game, the inns by Dan Lawrence today is an example of the kind of mental and physical stamina and technique that a T20 specialist simply does not have. The less you are required to do the less you will eventually be able to do.
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Regrettably, cricket reflects today's society.
Why put in the hard work, and dedication needed to play the long form of the game when you can become a millionaire overnight by opting for the T/20 circus.
More money for less work, is always going to be attractive to the majority, and that will not change.
I can see County cricket becoming semi pro in the next 10 years as the T/20 world circus takes all the best players, but I also think the ECB plans, which may be successful in the first year or so, will be a flop, and fail to get the extra crowds they expect.
That will lead to huge financial problems in the English game as County, and Minor County clubs rely on ECB funding.
Difficult times ahead.
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I'd disagree entirely Nat. With respect, the OAP members generally, bring a packed lunch, a flask of tea and rarely go near the bar unless its to use the ablutions or to refill the flask. Not all, but many.
Most of them are life members who bought their package many years ago, and the club gets little annualised income.
The age group you really want to get after are the 40+ group, who will pay an annual membership, use the bars, buy t20 tickets and bring their kids along.
Whilst not (quite) an OAP I love T20 but only alongside CC etc, yes I do bring my own food & drink (the choices at the Club whilst ok are not exactly Cordon Bleu & generally overpriced especially for 1 day games), I cannot afford Life Membership but happily pay my annual Membership (well my Son & Daughter do actually - they like to see me suffer for my enjoyment!!), I am also teetotal so buying alcohol isn't in my brief. Whatever is said about the older fans we all follow Essex faithfully & loyally & actually understand the game unlike many of the so called fans who come to T20 etc, if we all stop coming for any reason then like other Counties we will lose a steady stream of income. I do agree that the 40 ish age group needs to be cultivated but also Schools need to be actively encouraged to play cricket to get the youngsters interested & the Counties need to play their part in that.
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I'd disagree entirely Nat. With respect, the OAP members generally, bring a packed lunch, a flask of tea and rarely go near the bar unless its to use the ablutions or to refill the flask. Not all, but many.
Most of them are life members who bought their package many years ago, and the club gets little annualised income.
The age group you really want to get after are the 40+ group, who will pay an annual membership, use the bars, buy t20 tickets and bring their kids along.
As an OAP: Line by line; yes I bring a packed lunch...... not keen on the pavilion food and as for the Spinners Bar, the less said the better However I ‘bought' an Essex plastic pint ‘glass’ a year or so ago so I have that refilled. Not as often as I’d like to, though, particulrly when I have to drive home! Nor am I keen on beer out of plastic, although it doesn’t seem to harm cider. Fortunately, on a warm day!
TBH I don’t see a lot of gold lanyards round where I sit. Some to be sure, but my wife and I pay annually, as do many of our neighbours..
Absolutely agree about getting after the 40 or so’s, but my ‘some time ago’ experience as someone who organised professional continuing courses is that the demands on many working people, both men and women are much greater now than in my day, when we could finish work and go home. And that’s not only the ‘professional’ or white collar people; all sorts of peop[le have to undergo revalidation processes. So I agree about the need for Friday starts, or indeed Saturday ones and, as far as possible, play in the evenings.
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Ilford, I'm not sure it says anywhere in my comments that you shouldn't be allowed to attend mate! And I'm very aware that the older members follow the team and put the mileage in. I'd do the same if I wasn't here getting some cash back for the taxpayer to contribute to your pensions.. ;)
The point I'm making is that our older membership will decrease and we need to bring in the younger age groups.
Square..agree mate. Sorry I didn't get to pop up to the TPU and say hello on Saturday.
Anyone going to Taunton? Mrs Blocky has given permission for a Saturday Jolly so I may well crack on down the M4...
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Ilford, I'm not sure it says anywhere in my comments that you shouldn't be allowed to attend mate! And I'm very aware that the older members follow the team and put the mileage in. I'd do the same if I wasn't here getting some cash back for the taxpayer to contribute to your pensions.. ;)
The point I'm making is that our older membership will decrease and we need to bring in the younger age groups.
Square..agree mate. Sorry I didn't get to pop up to the TPU and say hello on Saturday.
Anyone going to Taunton? Mrs Blocky has given permission for a Saturday Jolly so I may well crack on down the M4...
I am but I will keep my cloak of anonymity.
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Ilford, I'm not sure it says anywhere in my comments that you shouldn't be allowed to attend mate! And I'm very aware that the older members follow the team and put the mileage in. I'd do the same if I wasn't here getting some cash back for the taxpayer to contribute to your pensions.. ;)
The point I'm making is that our older membership will decrease and we need to bring in the younger age groups.
Square..agree mate. Sorry I didn't get to pop up to the TPU and say hello on Saturday.
Anyone going to Taunton? Mrs Blocky has given permission for a Saturday Jolly so I may well crack on down the M4...
Will older members not naturally be replaced? Many of working age who play cricket say when retried they will get a membership and spend a lot of time at the cricket. Yes the membership is old but to me it seems it will naturally replace itself, and you will never get the younger member in on a regular basis for 4 day cricket due to time constraints at the weekend. FTA would help at a stroke as children will badger parents to take them to cricket.
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I am but I will keep my cloak of anonymity.
Mwhahahhah! :P
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Like most people I accept that T20 is here to stay and is necessary to drive participation and spectator rates amongst the younger generation. What I don't accept is that it has to be via City franchises.
I suspect that increasing participation rates is way down the ECB's list, otherwise there would be more than 8 FTA games, and that their prime driver is to have a shiny new competition akin to the IPL and Big Bash so they don't feel inferior at ICC meetings. The County blast survives for now but I suspect after a few years they will realise that two T20 competitions is one too many and it won't be the shiny new thing that gives way. I fail to see how concentrating cricket in eight cities will increase its popularity better than a competition spread over the country.
The best way to fight this is to back the T20 blast. Make sure its a success in the next few years and when the new tournament is launched support the Essex Eagles and not the Southern Softies or whatever they're called. In the words of the great Kevin Keegan, I would love it if the Blast proved more popular than the shiny new thing.
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Has anyone measured those plastic "pint" glasses ?
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Ilford, I'm not sure it says anywhere in my comments that you shouldn't be allowed to attend mate! And I'm very aware that the older members follow the team and put the mileage in. I'd do the same if I wasn't here getting some cash back for the taxpayer to contribute to your pensions.. ;)
The point I'm making is that our older membership will decrease and we need to bring in the younger age groups.
Square..agree mate. Sorry I didn't get to pop up to the TPU and say hello on Saturday.
Anyone going to Taunton? Mrs Blocky has given permission for a Saturday Jolly so I may well crack on down the M4...
Will older members not naturally be replaced? Many of working age who play cricket say when retried they will get a membership and spend a lot of time at the cricket. Yes the membership is old but to me it seems it will naturally replace itself, and you will never get the younger member in on a regular basis for 4 day cricket due to time constraints at the weekend. FTA would help at a stroke as children will badger parents to take them to cricket.
Part of my retirement present from my colleagues was intended to be a years membership. However when someone was sent up to Chelmsford to sort it out she discovered we’d already been bought it as a 65th birthday present from my son! Apparently meant a lot of last minute rethinking back at base!
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Like most people I accept that T20 is here to stay and is necessary to drive participation...The best way to fight this is to back the T20 blast. Make sure its a success in the next few years and when the new tournament is launched support the Essex Eagles and not the Southern Softies or whatever they're called. In the words of the great Kevin Keegan, I would love it if the Blast proved more popular than the shiny new thing.
Amen to this. You've won the internet for the day. Excellent post
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It will, however, be interesting to know how the ECB measure the city-based T20 to say whether it was a success. No doubt we will have the usual 'oh, it needs a year or two to bed down' if they don't get the crowds at first: after that, if they don't get the 40,000 per match they think they will, then will it be deemed to have failed? Of course, nothing will be done about it until the media rights contracts are at an end, but it would be nice to think that, if it fails, they will show T20 Blast matches instead.
Lynda and Steve
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It will, however, be interesting to know how the ECB measure the city-based T20 to say whether it was a success. No doubt we will have the usual 'oh, it needs a year or two to bed down' if they don't get the crowds at first: after that, if they don't get the 40,000 per match they think they will, then will it be deemed to have failed? Of course, nothing will be done about it until the media rights contracts are at an end, but it would be nice to think that, if it fails, they will show T20 Blast matches instead.
Lynda and Steve
It won't be allowed to fail or be perceived to fail. Too much loss of face.
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It will, however, be interesting to know how the ECB measure the city-based T20 to say whether it was a success. No doubt we will have the usual 'oh, it needs a year or two to bed down' if they don't get the crowds at first: after that, if they don't get the 40,000 per match they think they will, then will it be deemed to have failed? Of course, nothing will be done about it until the media rights contracts are at an end, but it would be nice to think that, if it fails, they will show T20 Blast matches instead.
Lynda and Steve
It won't be allowed to fail or be perceived to fail. Too much loss of face.
Is 40,000 the figure for the audience expected to watch the whole tournament?
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AFAIK there is no cricket ground in England big enough for 40k attendances unless they use the OS & larger football grounds like Wembley!
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Perhaps 40,000 will be the maximum TV audience for this contrived nonsense.
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Lack of capacity is just one of the many issues isn't it? Also most of our cricket grounds are designed for a chilled out day rather than an intense atmosphere, I just can't visualise Lords with 28000 people on their feet and getting involved to make the event we see in IPL or BB.
I'm convinced they'll set up a team at Stratford as it is the only stadium that has a field area for cricket and capacity needed. That will work for a year or two then become souless and fail as per Sydney.
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The central problem with this is that there just isn't room for two T20s, a 50 over competition and a first class competition (let alone Tests) in our current timetable. It's quite different for the Big Bash which fits into the main summer holidays in Australia and where there are only six first class teams: and for the IPL, because Indian domestic cricket finishes in February and April is the main school and university holiday month. What I fear is that Graves and Co have a long term agenda of only six or eight first class sides here too.
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What I fear is that Graves and Co have a long term agenda of only six or eight first class sides here too.
Correct. As long as one of them is Yorkshire of course.
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Interesting to see that Middlesex are against the change to the rule allowing competitions which don't include all 18 counties.
Lynda and Steve
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Postman, an excellent post.
It explains the big differences between our cricket and the Indian and Aussies set-up.
I suspect that Graves and Strauss are just don't want to hear any bad news!!!
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Has anyone measured those plastic "pint" glasses ?
I claimed my free drink on Friday 7th [thanks cloudfm] and note there is a 1 PINT line near the top of the plastic 'glass'. As you queried it I have checked and, yes, it is accurate.
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I'm pleased to see that the club will vote against the changes to the ECB articles of association, a pre-requisite to the T20 city competition. Let's hope there are sufficient other counties who also see the bigger picture.
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Has anyone measured those plastic "pint" glasses ?
I claimed my free drink on Friday 7th [thanks cloudfm] and note there is a 1 PINT line near the top of the plastic 'glass'. As you queried it I have checked and, yes, it is accurate.
.... full size, but still a good way to shift cloudy beer !
(although to be fair the beer for the Lancs game was decent!)
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Has anyone measured those plastic "pint" glasses ?
I claimed my free drink on Friday 7th [thanks cloudfm] and note there is a 1 PINT line near the top of the plastic 'glass'. As you queried it I have checked and, yes, it is accurate.
.... full size, but still a good way to shift cloudy beer !
(although to be fair the beer for the Lancs game was decent!)
I had a pint from the Saltaire brewery which was most acceptable.