Author Topic: In Ashes Down Under ?  (Read 3855 times)

Online Slogger

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #150 on: January 17, 2022, 04:49:47 PM »
I don't know. With some adjustment Aggers' idea has some sense. He advocates 10 four day teams. Eight grounds, based in seven mainly ghastly big cities where there is little interest in the game, host 100 ball teams. Use the other 10 grounds (Chelmsford, Canterbury, Taunton, Cheltenham etc) where the true game is cherished to host the ten 4 day teams. Problem solved!

Offline stewyww

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #151 on: January 17, 2022, 05:12:01 PM »
I don't know. With some adjustment Aggers' idea has some sense. He advocates 10 four day teams. Eight grounds, based in seven mainly ghastly big cities where there is little interest in the game, host 100 ball teams. Use the other 10 grounds (Chelmsford, Canterbury, Taunton, Cheltenham etc) where the true game is cherished to host the ten 4 day teams. Problem solved!
But it wouldnít be the ďtrue gameĒ as you call it.
It would be 10 fÖing franchises.

Online Slogger

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #152 on: January 17, 2022, 06:02:06 PM »
My point, as it was all tongue in cheek, is that this is a power grab but the impact would be to remove cricket from the county towns and surrounding rural areas that are the bedrock of the game and where it is widely played. Remove it from Leeds, London and Manchester and play it where people who are interested in the true game live.

Offline pablo

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #153 on: January 17, 2022, 07:11:09 PM »
It's always been the same. When we do badly in tests ( 1990's for instance) it's always the fault of the county structure. When we do well (2005 to 2015) it's the best competition in the world and nobody says a dicky bird. The reason we are in the current situation is obvious, the self confessed concentration entirely on  the one day game by the appalling ECB at the expense of the longer format - internationally and domestically. They didn't hide the fact that that would be their priority. There are wider structural issues of course like the absence of cricket in state schools but the current debacle is entirely at the feet of Graves and Harrison and to some extent Strauss. The scapegoats of course will be the smaller counties who often provide the sole source of support for kids through outreach work, cricket schools and some school coaching. I'm really not sure how disposing of Derby, Northants and Leicestershire, for instance,  and denying  access to first class cricket and the infrastructures it provides  can do anything other than diminish interest in cricket for whole swathes of the country. The Hundred may be of course the last nail in the coffin of the red ball game and I have yet to see any significant extra interest that it has generated.

Offline bwildered

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #154 on: January 17, 2022, 08:02:18 PM »
 Perhaps any Aussie employed by a county a reciprocal arrangement has to take place for State side.

Offline Andy

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #155 on: January 17, 2022, 08:18:02 PM »
I used to have respect for Agnew as being one of the last of the great TMS team.
Sadly it is now apparent he is ready for the funny farm.

Probably saw what happened to Vaughan and flipped. It's taken me until now to be able to comment on the pathetic ramblings of an ex-County seamer who made a career in the media on the basis of being a bit posh and having trundled in for a couple of tests but, like the miscreant Vaughan, now wants to cremate the County game that served him and numerous overseas players so well.
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Offline stewyww

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #156 on: January 17, 2022, 08:24:37 PM »
I used to have respect for Agnew as being one of the last of the great TMS team.
Sadly it is now apparent he is ready for the funny farm.

Probably saw what happened to Vaughan and flipped. It's taken me until now to be able to comment on the pathetic ramblings of an ex-County seamer who made a career in the media on the basis of being a bit posh and having trundled in for a couple of tests but, like the miscreant Vaughan, now wants to cremate the County game that served him and numerous overseas players so well.
I know we havenít always seen eye to eye Andy, but I think you are spot on here.

Offline stewyww

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #157 on: January 17, 2022, 08:26:10 PM »
It's always been the same. When we do badly in tests ( 1990's for instance) it's always the fault of the county structure. When we do well (2005 to 2015) it's the best competition in the world and nobody says a dicky bird. The reason we are in the current situation is obvious, the self confessed concentration entirely on  the one day game by the appalling ECB at the expense of the longer format - internationally and domestically. They didn't hide the fact that that would be their priority. There are wider structural issues of course like the absence of cricket in state schools but the current debacle is entirely at the feet of Graves and Harrison and to some extent Strauss. The scapegoats of course will be the smaller counties who often provide the sole source of support for kids through outreach work, cricket schools and some school coaching. I'm really not sure how disposing of Derby, Northants and Leicestershire, for instance,  and denying  access to first class cricket and the infrastructures it provides  can do anything other than diminish interest in cricket for whole swathes of the country. The Hundred may be of course the last nail in the coffin of the red ball game and I have yet to see any significant extra interest that it has generated.
Absolutely this.

Offline Andy

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #158 on: January 17, 2022, 09:55:37 PM »
I used to have respect for Agnew as being one of the last of the great TMS team.
Sadly it is now apparent he is ready for the funny farm.

Probably saw what happened to Vaughan and flipped. It's taken me until now to be able to comment on the pathetic ramblings of an ex-County seamer who made a career in the media on the basis of being a bit posh and having trundled in for a couple of tests but, like the miscreant Vaughan, now wants to cremate the County game that served him and numerous overseas players so well.
I know we havenít always seen eye to eye Andy, but I think you are spot on here.

Yes. Sadly I suspect that we will end up watching old County matches on YouTube in the near future.
Make America Great (Britain) Again.

Offline Bath Hammer

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #159 on: January 18, 2022, 12:38:16 AM »
As much as I hate the idea of reducing the status of counties it doesnít provide the foundation for future test players in its present form, even if more matches are played throughout the season in my view. There is no comparison between our mostly small county set ups & the state teams in Australia. I do think we have to raise the standard in the county game & if that means having a higher level competition so be it.

Offline Alex

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #160 on: January 18, 2022, 01:43:33 AM »
I used to have respect for Agnew as being one of the last of the great TMS team.
Sadly it is now apparent he is ready for the funny farm.

Probably saw what happened to Vaughan and flipped. It's taken me until now to be able to comment on the pathetic ramblings of an ex-County seamer who made a career in the media on the basis of being a bit posh and having trundled in for a couple of tests but, like the miscreant Vaughan, now wants to cremate the County game that served him and numerous overseas players so well.
Don't worry, he'll be out of a job soon enough and the BBC won't be able to afford the rights for their precious Hundred.

Offline stewyww

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #161 on: January 18, 2022, 08:02:01 AM »
As much as I hate the idea of reducing the status of counties it doesnít provide the foundation for future test players in its present form, even if more matches are played throughout the season in my view. There is no comparison between our mostly small county set ups & the state teams in Australia. I do think we have to raise the standard in the county game & if that means having a higher level competition so be it.
What is this obsession with the national side and in particular Australia?
If in football, England perform badly at a World Cup, would you hear about a root and branch restructuring of the Premier League and the Football League?
Apologies for repeating a comment I made a few months ago, but after many decades of the status quo in county cricket (up to 1963), we then had various innovations which were justified for financial reasons, such as the introduction of one day cricket and probably climaxing in 2000 with a two divisional championship. I could even swallow the T20 becoming a bedfellow in 2003, but since then it is pure knee jerk reactions every time England have a poor test series.
ENOUGH ! I and many cricket lovers like me donít care that much about international cricket that we want to sacrifice a lifelong pleasure just for the sake of a successful national team who I struggle to identify with. I support Essex first and foremost, and England comes way below that for me.
Just my personal viewpoint, but I know I am not alone on this.

Offline LeedsExile

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #162 on: January 18, 2022, 08:30:03 AM »
You are not alone stewyww. I agree entirely. My interest in the test team usually involves the fortunes of Essex players. Reading the message boards of other counties this seems to be a common theme. I want Essex players to do well but am not overly concerned about the fortunes of England.

Offline Andy

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #163 on: January 18, 2022, 08:50:51 AM »
As much as I hate the idea of reducing the status of counties it doesnít provide the foundation for future test players in its present form, even if more matches are played throughout the season in my view. There is no comparison between our mostly small county set ups & the state teams in Australia. I do think we have to raise the standard in the county game & if that means having a higher level competition so be it.

In Australia, it is not the State system that works better than our county system, but the fact that cricket is played by a higher proportion of the population from the lowest levels of club cricket upwards. It has been the much more flexible grade cricket system that allows someone with talent to progress upwards faster in order to stretch themselves.

I had an Aussie dissertation student years back who played a fairly high standard of grade cricket where he faced test bowlers and played with/against batsmen who went on to the national team. Interestingly he had thought that there were better players who didnít quite make it at national level, whereas seemingly lesser players (including Ricky Ponting) developed later and more fully.  Yes, he felt that the county based system stifled this flexibility, but I fail to see how rebranding (fewer) counties as franchises is going to address that problem. 

The game in this country really has become more elitist: if your parents arenít rich enough, or your skin the wrong shade, you ainít getting in. By giving fewer opportunities for new players in top level domestic cricket then are the rest ending up as semi pros or (more likely) drifting out of the game altogether? 

Arguably sport has become a middle class plaything. As gorgeous as she is, Emma Raducanu reflects the social class with the money to spend on such frippery.  Sport for All? My ar£e.
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Offline bobw

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Re: In Ashes Down Under ?
« Reply #164 on: January 18, 2022, 09:48:48 AM »
As much as I hate the idea of reducing the status of counties it doesnít provide the foundation for future test players in its present form, even if more matches are played throughout the season in my view. There is no comparison between our mostly small county set ups & the state teams in Australia. I do think we have to raise the standard in the county game & if that means having a higher level competition so be it.

In Australia, it is not the State system that works better than our county system, but the fact that cricket is played by a higher proportion of the population from the lowest levels of club cricket upwards. It has been the much more flexible grade cricket system that allows someone with talent to progress upwards faster in order to stretch themselves.

I had an Aussie dissertation student years back who played a fairly high standard of grade cricket where he faced test bowlers and played with/against batsmen who went on to the national team. Interestingly he had thought that there were better players who didnít quite make it at national level, whereas seemingly lesser players (including Ricky Ponting) developed later and more fully.  Yes, he felt that the county based system stifled this flexibility, but I fail to see how rebranding (fewer) counties as franchises is going to address that problem. 

The game in this country really has become more elitist: if your parents arenít rich enough, or your skin the wrong shade, you ainít getting in. By giving fewer opportunities for new players in top level domestic cricket then are the rest ending up as semi pros or (more likely) drifting out of the game altogether? 

Arguably sport has become a middle class plaything. As gorgeous as she is, Emma Raducanu reflects the social class with the money to spend on such frippery.  Sport for All? My ar£e.

I quite agree regarding the parents who are rich enough. The club I coach at has youngsters from accross the board. However, the ones that will get on are the ones with parents who have a net and bowling machine in their back gardens, send their children to private schools and pay for extra coaching and nets time. The children are not any better at the moment thanothers, but give it a couple of years and the difference will be huge. We will also lose a number to that all pervading evil Football that does not know when seasons start and finnish.