Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => England Test => Topic started by: bwildered on December 05, 2021, 09:48:11 AM
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Australia team for first Test: David Warner, Marcus Harris, Marnus Labuschagne, Steve Smith, Travis Head, Cameron Green, Alex Carey, Pat Cummins, Mitchell Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood.
A unlikely step to already name your Test Line up already.Cummins the first bowler to Captain the Aussies since 1950’s apparently.
And the England line up to be ?
Burns
Hammed
Malan
Root
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Woakes
Robinson
Anderson
Leach
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Cummings is the first seam bowler since Ray Lindwall captained for one test as a temporary Captain.
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Australia team for first Test: David Warner, Marcus Harris, Marnus Labuschagne, Steve Smith, Travis Head, Cameron Green, Alex Carey, Pat Cummins, Mitchell Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood.
A unlikely step to already name your Test Line up already.Cummins the first bowler to Captain the Aussies since 1950’s apparently.
And the England line up to be ?
Burns
Hammed
Malan
Root
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Woakes
Robinson
Anderson
Leach
we'll lose 4-0 at least.
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If we do, will that be the end for captain Root?
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Unless the British press can trawl up some more dodgy pictures we really ought to get a thrashing of the unpleasant type rather than the type Tory MP's pay through the nose for and claim on expenses. Alledgedly.
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Australia team for first Test: David Warner, Marcus Harris, Marnus Labuschagne, Steve Smith, Travis Head, Cameron Green, Alex Carey, Pat Cummins, Mitchell Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood.
A unlikely step to already name your Test Line up already.Cummins the first bowler to Captain the Aussies since 1950’s apparently.
And the England line up to be ?
Burns
Hammed
Malan
Root
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Woakes
Robinson
Anderson
Leach
I think they need Wood's pace and Broad has a good record down under:
Burns, Hameed, Malan, Root, Stokes, Pope, Buttler, Robinson, Wood, Broad, Leach
I reckon they'll choose Bairstow over Pope and probably Anderson instead of Wood. Unlucky for Woakes.
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The weather may play a part in team selection. There's been a lot of rain about and the wicket looks green,
I really hope we play Pope, not Bairstow. And find a place for Mark Wood.
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The weather may play a part in team selection. There's been a lot of rain about and the wicket looks green,
I really hope we play Pope, not Bairstow. And find a place for Mark Wood.
A green wicket and you'd play Mark Wood?! Barmy.
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If we do, will that be the end for captain Root?
Yes. It'll be the end for Silverwood as well.
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The weather may play a part in team selection. There's been a lot of rain about and the wicket looks green,
I really hope we play Pope, not Bairstow. And find a place for Mark Wood.
A green wicket and you'd play Mark Wood?! Barmy.
Is it really a green wicket? Bet it won't be by tomorrow.
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The weather may play a part in team selection. There's been a lot of rain about and the wicket looks green,
I really hope we play Pope, not Bairstow. And find a place for Mark Wood.
A green wicket and you'd play Mark Wood?! Barmy.
Not at all. Because the wicket's green it doesn't mean it won't have any pace, particularly for a skiddy bowler like Wood. We'll have three other seamers who move the ball around at 80-85, I'd rather have some variety than a fourth one.
There is, I accept, a case for playing Woakes or Overton in place of Wood - either would strengthen the batting, be less likely to break down and maybe be less likely to go for a lot of runs quickly. And if it looks like a lot of time will be lost due to rain, there's a case for playing for a draw and keeping Woody fit for the next test.
Whoever we choose, however, the Aussies will have three seamers slinging in down at 90mph+ and I don't think two many batsmen would prefer to face our attack than theirs.
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Anderson is not playing and apparently the choice is between Broad and Leach with Woakes, Robinson and Wood set to play.
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Anderson is not playing and apparently the choice is between Broad and Leach with Woakes, Robinson and Wood set to play.
Remember when Broad was an all rounder. Trouble is I suspect that, if Jimmy doesn't play they will gamble that this is the one test per series that Broad comes good...
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Anderson is not playing and apparently the choice is between Broad and Leach with Woakes, Robinson and Wood set to play.
Remember when Broad was an all rounder. Trouble is I suspect that, if Jimmy doesn't play they will gamble that this is the one test per series that Broad comes good...
Broad has to play Warner is his *****.
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First ball sets the tone of the series.
Burns, rabbit in headlights, Aussies seamers superb, England blown away .
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This is the product of agreeing to a ridiculous schedule with no warm up matches at all. Games amongst themselves are pointless. In 2010 when we won there was a meticulous schedule with three games before the first test and the series was a triumph. Until this is restored we will never compete.
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Still wondering if I was watching a Carry on Cricket, Hammer House of Horror show or Life on Earth programme , has the duck is back !
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First ball sets the tone of the series.
Burns, rabbit in headlights, Aussies seamers superb, England blown away .
Remember the PRECOVID old normal? It's back.
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This is the product of agreeing to a ridiculous schedule with no warm up matches at all. Games amongst themselves are pointless. In 2010 when we won there was a meticulous schedule with three games before the first test and the series was a triumph. Until this is restored we will never compete.
Quite.
The only good thing about today's play is that I forgot it was happening so I didn't watch any of it! Only just caught up.
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I wish I had! Still, let's remember not to judge a pitch until both teams have batted on it… expecting the Aussies to get at least 300.
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How many players would have to test positive for COVID before the match is called off…asking for a friend.
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The forecast isn't great for today and tomorrow, but Australia can probably win inside 3 days.
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How many players would have to test positive for COVID before the match is called off…asking for a friend.
It seemed to depend last season - Kent had to play their game but Slurry did not ..
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Looks like the rabbits in headlights have now had a glancing blow from a vehicle.
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Excellent end of day three score , cannot afford to be wasteful and bat all tomorrow to place a decent lead. Would be interesting if they fancied a chase on last day . Still lots to do though, but credit for hanging on in there.
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There is still hope. Probably too much to hope for a last day chase, but I thought it would be all over today. Let's hope Malan and Root go big tomorrow.
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There is still hope. Probably too much to hope for a last day chase, but I thought it would be all over today. Let's hope Malan and Root go big tomorrow.
No chance. New ball available in 10 overs. All over by tea time.
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Said it before and I'll say it again, Cameron Green is excellent. Get him signed up Essex before someone else does!
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Time and again , good overnight finishes led to despair in the morning .
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We lost did we?
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and now England are docked 5 points and lose their match fee due to slow over rate!
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and now England are docked 5 points and lose their match fee due to slow over rate!
good. long overdue.
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Only an AK47 will prevent a hammering this series.
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and now England are docked 5 points and lose their match fee due to slow over rate!
I hope this isn't the last time Test teams are penalised for low over rates. It's cheating the viewing public
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Time and again , good overnight finishes led to despair in the morning .
"It's not the despair, it's the hope I can't stand"
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Yes the hope…Warner and Hazlewood both have rib injuries.
That’s what can happen if you laugh too much.
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Yes the hope…Warner and Hazlewood both have rib injuries.
That’s what can happen if you laugh too much.
:) :) :)
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Rory Burns and Jack Leach both in the squad for the second Test.
The former is definitely lucky to be selected. Whether JL feels lucky or unlucky I'm not at all sure.
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Captain Cummings ruled out of test with COVID contact. Might work for or against them has Hazelwood also unavailable, two to many to suddenly substain a test attack or replacements to reap the rewards .
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Nick some wickets bowling with a new pinky under lights. Theory there, but putting it into practice after toil of eighty overs, no. Bringing a five day test match, to five overs at end of day after the slow overrate.
It’s not test cricket has we know it .
But we did have some leg theory without penetration or venom. Already a three innings game, and guess which team to bat twice.
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Rubbish keeping near the end of the day. Well Spoons should’ve stayed with us.
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A very depressing day. Whose idea was it to bowl so much short stuff, especially when we don't have a genuine fast bowler in the side? And don't start me on the criminally low over rate when the seamers were on.
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A very depressing day. Whose idea was it to bowl so much short stuff, especially when we don't have a genuine fast bowler in the side? And don't start me on the criminally low over rate when the seamers were on.
Trouble is...Stokes is allowed to do whatever he wants. Need a strong captain/manager to lay down the law.
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If we get thrashed and Root resigns then Stokes is the next cab off the rank. Far from ideal.
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If we get thrashed and Root resigns then Stokes is the next cab off the rank. Far from ideal.
Please no. Stokes has enough on his plate already.
But if not Root or Stokes, who? Buttler ? Probably the next in line but is he worth a nailed-down place in the team?
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If we get thrashed and Root resigns then Stokes is the next cab off the rank. Far from ideal.
Please no. Stokes has enough on his plate already.
But if not Root or Stokes, who? Buttler ? Probably the next in line but is he worth a nailed-down place in the team?
They would take the usual route of appointing the next most experinece batsman. so that would be.........????????
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If we get thrashed and Root resigns then Stokes is the next cab off the rank. Far from ideal.
Please no. Stokes has enough on his plate already.
But if not Root or Stokes, who? Buttler ? Probably the next in line but is he worth a nailed-down place in the team?
They would take the usual route of appointing the next most experinece batsman. so that would be.........????????
Butter fingers Burns!
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Like the theory that they get 400, and so do we.
But sorry for repeating myself, the practice is something very different.
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If we get thrashed and Root resigns then Stokes is the next cab off the rank. Far from ideal.
Please no. Stokes has enough on his plate already.
But if not Root or Stokes, who? Buttler ? Probably the next in line but is he worth a nailed-down place in the team?
They would take the usual route of appointing the next most experinece batsman. so that would be.........????????
Butter fingers Burns!
Thanks for depressing me even more, Nat, just in case the Test score and Omicron weren't enough already.
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Well, we might win.
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Now we sit just above Bangladesh in the Test rankings: a right bunch of rankers on and off the pitch.
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Now we sit just above Bangladesh in the Test rankings: a right bunch of rankers on and off the pitch.
All that money on central contracts (and damaging the county game) has been well worth it then.
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Now we sit just above Bangladesh in the Test rankings: a right bunch of rankers on and off the pitch.
All that money on central contracts (and damaging the county game) has been well worth it then.
More likely the over emphasis upon white ball cricket, whilst red ball is played in late winter and early Autumn.
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Are we watching Rory Burns and/or Jos Buttler playing their last Tests?
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That Butler could not catch Covid at a Anti-Vaxer convention.
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Hameed should not have been recalled and Buttler never has been either a test class batsman(not batter!) or keeper. Bring in Crawley and Foakes for next test please.
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Bring in Crawley and Foakes for next test please.
I'll drink to that.
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:) :) :)
That Butler could not catch Covid at a Anti-Vaxer convention.
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Bring in Crawley and Foakes for next test please.
I'll drink to that.
You must have been on the sauce already if you think Crawley is the answer.
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The Lions team have flown home (or are about to) with none of the players asked to remain with the main squad. So no Foakes, Parkinson, Mahmood or Crane. That leaves Wood, Lawrence, Crawley, Bairstow, Overton, Leach and Bess available to change things. Unless they get James Vince from the Sydney Sixers or Reece Topley from the Melbourne Renegades.
Maybe Lawrence, Bairstow and Crawley in for the next test- and Wood for sure, but that is shuffling deckchairs when the ship has already sunk.
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Bring in Crawley and Foakes for next test please.
I'll drink to that.
You must have been on the sauce already if you think Crawley is the answer.
Nothing stronger than a cup of well-brewed Assam, I can assure you, Nat. And very good it was, too.
I just think Crawley's a better bet than Burns at the moment. Unless the latter manages to take several blinding slip catches and get a big ton in the next innings.
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I suspect the best English opener is sitting in the BT studio....
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I suspect the best English opener is sitting in the BT studio....
They’ve let Sir Geoffrey out of isolation?
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Hameed should not have been recalled and Buttler never has been either a test class batsman(not batter!) or keeper. Bring in Crawley and Foakes for next test please.
There were few alternatives to Hameed available and he was starting to get his mojo back. Foakes is clearly a better keeper and, probably, bat.
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The Lions team have flown home (or are about to) with none of the players asked to remain with the main squad. So no Foakes, Parkinson, Mahmood or Crane. That leaves Wood, Lawrence, Crawley, Bairstow, Overton, Leach and Bess available to change things. Unless they get James Vince from the Sydney Sixers or Reece Topley from the Melbourne Renegades.
Maybe Lawrence, Bairstow and Crawley in for the next test- and Wood for sure, but that is shuffling deckchairs when the ship has already sunk.
I'd rather hoped Jonny B had played his last Test but he could only be an improvement on the wretched Buttler on current form. Bad, bad mistake letting Ben Foakes go home.
I'm loathe to drop Pope as he is technically better than Dan and has much better career stats. I've thought him as our best batting prospect for a while, but is something not right in between his ears at the moment?
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I suspect the best English opener is sitting in the BT studio....
Didn't he say he'd only come back in an emergency? Well I think this qualifies. Offer to pay him double, charter a jet, whatever it takes. Even on last season's form he's the best there is.
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I'd rather hoped Jonny B had played his last Test but he could only be an improvement on the wretched Buttler on current form. Bad, bad mistake letting Ben Foakes go home.
I'm loathe to drop Pope as he is technically better than Dan and has much better career stats. I've thought him as our best batting prospect for a while, but is something not right in between his ears at the moment?
At least Dan is a battler, particularly when he gets over his usual dodgy starts. I am not sure what has happened to Pope, maybe all the injuries have had an impact.
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I suspect the best English opener is sitting in the BT studio....
Didn't he say he'd only come back in an emergency? Well I think this qualifies. Offer to pay him double, charter a jet, whatever it takes. Even on last season's form he's the best there is.
If you're referring to Sir Chef, forget it. Boycott would be a better option. Let's face it, the Aussies would have Cook on toast - that's why he retired when he did.
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Just the relative amount of 467 runs runs to win the test or 134 overs to grind, after a session of insurance play by the Aussies. Kindly though they have given themselves two wobbly sessions in the twilight zone.
Let’s see who wants it in the England camp. Time to scrap.
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Our captain gets hit in the groin whilst batting in the nets without a box. What is going on here? Either poor preparation or a failed attempt to get a ‘Blighty’ wound and go home for Christmas. I hope that Spoons removes all sharp objects from Root’s room.
Today Is Sunday What A Shambles.
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So 2-0 down with 3 to play. My prediction of a 4-0 loss is looking optimistic. Root has made the fatal mistake as captain of being too friendly with his teammates especially Stokes. Better to be a son of a ***** and a winner than a nice loser.
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Fast becoming the, “ We Could Have Tour”. Actually with a bit of more hard earned throughout we could have got something out of the game in which we got completely out played in, and which went deep into 20 overs remaining .
Lawrence for Pope, Wood-and Overton in for the glimmer twins.
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Malan, Root, Stokes, Robinson, Wood & Bairstow (only because he's the sole alterative to Buttler as 'keeper) should be the only definites for the next Test, IMHO. Maybe Dan as he's not had a chance to **** up yet.
Buttler, Burns, Anderson and, I reluctantly say, Pope all need dropping. The Test careers of the first 2 should be over Jimmy might have 1 more Test in him.
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Malan, Root, Stokes, Robinson, Wood & Bairstow (only because he's the sole alterative to Buttler as 'keeper) should be the only definites for the next Test, IMHO. Maybe Dan as he's not had a chance to **** up yet.
Buttler, Burns, Anderson and, I reluctantly say, Pope all need dropping. The Test careers of the first 2 should be over Jimmy might have 1 more Test in him.
You've forgotten Broad. He's finished. Anderson has a bit left in the tank but the end is near for him.
We need some players with balls. Not sure we have enough....in this squad or elsewhere. We need a David Steele.
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I expect Buttler's efforts today will earn him a reprieve in this cosy England set up.
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Forget who is over there now etc, if it was possible, who would people be picking for the next test (like I said, in a dream scenario)....
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Forget who is over there now etc, if it was possible, who would people be picking for the next test (like I said, in a dream scenario)....
The labelled cannot bat, bowl and field squad of 1986.
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I don't think he's good enough, but I'd play Lawrence at the MCG anyway. He's done well at the ground previously and certainly wouldn't let Nathan Lyon make a fool out of him like he did to Ollie Pope. They'll go for boring Bairstow though if Pope does get dropped.
Saqib should be playing and so should Parkinson. Woakes shouldn't even be in Australia, to be honest I'd put him out to pasture like Moeen. He's 33 in March and offers us nothing apart from in England on our green seamers. The future bowling unit of England in the years to come should be some combination of Archer (fat chance), Robinson, Saqib, Wood, S. Curran, Parkinson. I think Garton's a talent as well.
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I'd add Brydon Carse to that list of bowlers.
The ECB have issued a statement to say Archer has had another operation on his elbow and won't be back until the summer. You'd have to worry that he'll just concentrate on white ball cricket from now on. Olly Stone might go the same way.
Saqib is still in Oz playing in the Big Bash, so at least he's playing some cricket. I don't know why they sent Parkinson home, the choice is now between Leach and Bess, both of whom won't be at their most confident after the way they've been treated in the last year. Also a fan of Garton, although he's just coming back from injury too. A quick left armer who can bat a bit- if he lives up to his talent and stays fit all may not be lost.
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Agree with Alex ad DazedPenguin
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Re the bowling, I'm largely in agreement with Alex & DP, but I'm more optimistic about Archer, although we will need to manage his workload a lot more carefully.
Other old farts may remember when England moved on from Hoggy and Harmy 15 years ago, giving Jimmy the new ball on the first test in NZ after England were slaughtered in Aus - IMHO we're at a similar watershed now.
In home Tests next year Anderson, Broad & Woakes may well take more wickets than guys like Carse, Garton and Saqib Mahmood - or Little Chef - but if we stick with the same lot, the only way is down.
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Re the bowling, I'm largely in agreement with Alex & DP, but I'm more optimistic about Archer, although we will need to manage his workload a lot more carefully.
Other old farts may remember when England moved on from Hoggy and Harmy 15 years ago, giving Jimmy the new ball on the first test in NZ after England were slaughtered in Aus - IMHO we're at a similar watershed now.
In home Tests next year Anderson, Broad & Woakes may well take more wickets than guys like Carse, Garton and Saqib Mahmood - or Little Chef - but if we stick with the same lot, the only way is down.
Look Carse, Garton and Mahmood are pie chuckers. Little Chef is a craftsman as is Robinson (albeit undisciplined), Bailey, Sanderson, Overton, Anderson (still)....plus spinners like Rashid, Bess (work in progress), Parkinson
Craftsmen are always more successful than pie chuckers. Just take a look at the stats.
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Root blaming the bowlers seems ridiculous. Has he not noticed the batsmen are useless? Now Silverwood says "he is still the man for the job". It would be refreshing if he told the truth i.e I am out of my depth and the system has produced this dross.
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Root's captaincy has come under fire in the Ashes , with his decision to bat first at the Gabba, team selection and bowling plans all coming in for criticism.
Notably, ex-Australia captain Ricky Ponting laid into Root after he admitted England "didn't bowl the right lengths" in the second Test in Adelaide.
"I nearly fell off my seat when I heard that," Ponting said. "Whose job is it then to make them change? Why are you captain then?
"If you can't influence your bowlers on what length to bowl, what are you doing on the field?"
Fair point Ricky.
Problem also is that some seniors think they are quicker than they are and also know better.
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"Look Carse, Garton and Mahmood are pie chuckers" . Thanks for that deep insight Nat. Must take really deep cricket knowledge to write this sort of stuff.
Here's a thought experiment for you:
The England management take your advice and, alongside Robinson & Stokes, select Tom Bailey and Ben Sanderson as the seam attack for the next Test. What do you think the reaction in the Australian dressing room would be? Clue: it won't include the word "fear".
Happy Xmas!
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I see in todays Telegraph that Anderson thinks the coaching team should be telling the bowlers to change length when they go ing for lunch.
i would have though that a bowler of his experience should know when to change length during a spell. I know I do as a village bowler. if I am being hit I need to change length , line or both. I do this during a spell if not an over. Why can't Englands bowlers?
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So 4 changes on the Titanic. If Bairstow plays he should keep but Buttler is undroppable it seems. Looks like the end for Burns which is a bit hard as he at least hangs around sometimes. Hameed better score runs soon. Woakes had to go as he never takes many wickets overseas and poor old Leach is chucked into the firing line again. The batting looks weaker to me which is concerning.
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So 4 changes on the Titanic. If Bairstow plays he should keep but Buttler is undroppable it seems. Looks like the end for Burns which is a bit hard as he at least hangs around sometimes. Hameed better score runs soon. Woakes had to go as he never takes many wickets overseas and poor old Leach is chucked into the firing line again. The batting looks weaker to me which is concerning.
Can only see another heavy defeat. Worst Ashes team ever?
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I see in todays Telegraph that Anderson thinks the coaching team should be telling the bowlers to change length when they go ing for lunch.
i would have though that a bowler of his experience should know when to change length during a spell. I know I do as a village bowler. if I am being hit I need to change length , line or both. I do this during a spell if not an over. Why can't Englands bowlers?
It’s the blame game already. I’ve just notched up my half century and fancy things couldn’t get much if I bought meself a ticket to Australia.
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The, “We could have tour, “ continues to be the nightmare predicted, starting with the toss then …..ditto
Cannot see Root continuing after the series, problem now is next man to the plate Stokes, sadly now bats like he is trying to replicate Headingly every time.
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Gave it away by the middle order in the first innings, blown away top order in the second.
Situation vacant leaflets to be going up in all county grounds throughout the land come the start of the season.
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Congratulations Harrison and Graves. You have destroyed English cricket. Your finest hour.
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Congratulations Harrison and Graves. You have destroyed English cricket. Your finest hour.
Yep. When is Harrison going to front up and do an interview?!
England actually spent longer in quarantine upon entering Australia (14 days) than it look them to lose the Ashes series (12 days).
Probably gone into hiding, or officially quarantine .
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Congratulations Harrison and Graves. You have destroyed English cricket. Your finest hour.
Never put a Yorkshireman in charge of anything. I think the numpty who took the county and National game off our screens in 2006 ought to take some of the credit for this and the general decline in red ball cricket standards over the past two decades.
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"In affectionate remembrance of English cricket, which died (again) in Melbourne on 28 December 2021.
Deeply lamented by a large circle of sorrowing friends and acquaintances. RIP.
The body will be cremated and the Ashes will remain in Australia."
Good article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59808298
5 stages of Ashes grief
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Has Ashley Giles said anything? What does he do?
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Perhaps it is time for performance related pay for the executives. Gross salary to be divided into thirds for T20, 50 and Test teams with a sliding scale in performance within the categories.
Let’s not forget with the emphasis in the white ball game recently we only reached semi final T20 World Cup.
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Perhaps it is time for performance related pay for the executives. Gross salary to be divided into thirds for T20, 50 and Test teams with a sliding scale in performance within the categories.
Let’s not forget with the emphasis in the white ball game recently we only reached semi final T20 World Cup.
Unfortunatly they would write off the test team and consentrate on the other two. Unlike now......oh wait.
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So, our erstwhile coach is self-isolating. Hope they remove all sharp objects from his hotel room. I'd laugh if this coincides with an upturn in performance by the team...
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Average start for England in the fourth, but yet again bowling lines still not tight enough, something Essex did brilliantly last season. Perhaps Nel needs to be employed into the coaching set up once the series is finished.
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Average start for England in the fourth, but yet again bowling lines still not tight enough, something Essex did brilliantly last season. Perhaps Nel needs to be employed into the coaching set up once the series is finished.
Mmmm. Our bowlers at ECCC were better before Nel got involved. Indeed, since he took over, Porter has gone backwards (form wise) and our next generation of seamers seem far from the Porter/Cook standard.
Interesting how the England bowlers have again been too short and wide with the new ball. Seems strange that Spoons has allowed this to happen time and again, especially since he’s an ex-seamer himself.
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Porter went backwards after being involved in the England set up.
Cook has come on in the past three years whilst Nel was here.
I'd be more worried about what the batting coach does.
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Porter went backwards after being involved in the England set up.
Cook has come on in the past three years whilst Nel was here.
I'd be more worried about what the batting coach does.
We have a batting coach? Seriously? I knew we had someone who used to look after the youth cricketers who was nominally doing something with the first team.
Porter was picked for a Test squad, but little chef has been too…perhaps his father (rightly) told him to ignore whatever numpty was coaching the seamers.
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Porter went backwards after being involved in the England set up.
Cook has come on in the past three years whilst Nel was here.
I'd be more worried about what the batting coach does.
We have a batting coach? Seriously? I knew we had someone who used to look after the youth cricketers who was nominally doing something with the first team.
Porter was picked for a Test squad, but little chef has been too…perhaps his father (rightly) told him to ignore whatever numpty was coaching the seamers.
If only they had come to me. 50p coin on the top of off stump, hit the stump and you get the money, all of it.
More top training tips in my forthcoming coaching franchise scheme.
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If only they had come to me. 50p coin on the top of off stump, hit the stump and you get the money, all of it.
More top training tips in my forthcoming coaching franchise scheme.
You still supergluing it on?
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Still did not knock them over, although a more admiral effort with again a bowler down. Can the bats finally knock some decent runs, is it too much to ask given we are only playing the fourth test.
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Still did not knock them over, although a more admiral effort with again a bowler down. Can the bats finally knock some decent runs, is it too much to ask given we are only playing the fourth test.
Cue ship sinking, Captain Pugwash jokes…
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Not sure of pink day for the test, more like ginger day.
First sign of Aussies not having it all their own way, but all be it from the middle session onwards ,(Yes, we have to grab anything positive from the series so far).
Bairstow gives praise to Fozzy, post match interview after his positive century .
Yep might be papering over the cracks, where’s that bucket of wall paper adhesive !
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Give Bairstow back the gloves and ditch Buttler for ever.
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Give Bairstow back the gloves and ditch Buttler for ever.
Give Foakes the gloves and let Bairstow play as a batsman.
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Give Bairstow back the gloves and ditch Buttler for ever.
Give Foakes the gloves and let Bairstow play as a batsman.
Yes and don’t keep moving him around the order, Bairstow I mean.
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Now called up Billings. Who has Foakes upset along the way?
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Now called up Billings. Who has Foakes upset along the way?
Is Foakes fit?
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Billings has been playing BB so is on site so to speak.
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Now called up Billings. Who has Foakes upset along the way?
Is Foakes fit?
Think I read somewhere that Buttler was regarded better placed in playing the raising ball common on the hard surfaces of Aussie . Foakes returned home with the Lions squad.
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Now called up Billings. Who has Foakes upset along the way?
Buttler, Barstow, Billings, all public school, Foakes, bog standard Secondary Modern, '
nuff said.
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Now called up Billings. Who has Foakes upset along the way?
Buttler, Barstow, Billings, all public school, Foakes, bog standard Secondary Modern, '
nuff said.
It's nothing to with that. As was said above Billings is already in Australia playing in the Big Bash whereas Ben Foakes is in England. With quarantine it would make it impossible for Foakes to play in the last test anyway. I'd be shocked if Billings was ahead of him in the Test pecking order.
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Finally something the Aussies got wrong ! Carey’s one ball innings which resulted in a declaration seemed rather bizarre with already enough runs in the bank.
England just need to survive last day to earn a draw, with only two results possible. Chin up everybody got pass a opening stand of 23, now anything is possible.
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Now called up Billings. Who has Foakes upset along the way?
Buttler, Barstow, Billings, all public school, Foakes, bog standard Secondary Modern, '
nuff said.
It's nothing to with that. As was said above Billings is already in Australia playing in the Big Bash whereas Ben Foakes is in England. With quarantine it would make it impossible for Foakes to play in the last test anyway. I'd be shocked if Billings was ahead of him in the Test pecking order.
One thing we know now…Pope is a better keeper than Buttler! Billings should only be as squad cover for the last test. Lawrence might get a call up, at least it’ll save Root bowling too much.
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The bubble fielding position comes to Test cricket. Everyone around the bat for the spinner, Broad and Anderson survive last couple of overs .
The white wash now not possible, pride and honour restored, Giles job is safe, open top bus ordered for journey from Sydney to Hobart !
Could reverse the batting order for the last Test, might do the trick !
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One of the worlds top bowlers facing one of the worlds top batsmen, was a bizarre finish, with Smith probably bowling the easiest delivery of the day (even I would fancy keeping out ).
Perhaps reversing the batting order might not be a good idea, given that Hameed would have had to survive.
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Nice not to lose 5-0, I suppose but hard to get too excited about a game we would have lost had there not been time lost for rain earlier in the match. It's also kept Crawley in the side for another 6 months, I fear.
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Nice not to lose 5-0, I suppose but hard to get too excited about a game we would have lost had there not been time lost for rain earlier in the match. It's also kept Crawley in the side for another 6 months, I fear.
One of the longest tests played, has most of the time made up and also the predicted fourth day rain did not arrive. Ironic that it started raining during post match interview. Perhaps if the Aussies had declared earlier when Carey came in and a 380 run lead the “ What Could Have Tour,” would be so different .
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Apologies to all . Not sure we can call it a white wash , alternative please .
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Nice not to lose 5-0, I suppose but hard to get too excited about a game we would have lost had there not been time lost for rain earlier in the match. It's also kept Crawley in the side for another 6 months, I fear.
Well, we keep trying these players, we’re running out of alternatives. I guess the likes of Crawley and Pope will eventually establish themselves in the side. As we know, players tend to get found out after the first few matches, then it’s up to them and the coaching staff to rectify technical faults and fight their way back into form. Foakes’ form wasn’t great last season. We tend to forget that even the likes of Sir Chef we’re kept in the team despite going through troughs in form.
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Apologies to all . Not sure we can call it a white wash , alternative please .
Unfortunately the alternatives are unprintable.
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Boland as our 2nd O/S player? Yes please.
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Boland as our 2nd O/S player? Yes please.
Crazy idea. It's batting we need.
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Disagree.
If Cook or Porter get injured we are in big trouble. Our 'pace' attack most games will be those 2 plus Snater, who despite doing wll last year remains very much a 'juries still out' player in my view. To have to rely on Alison, Plom and Beard, if either of the main men get injured renders our attack paper thin.
On the batting front we have signed Critch, who should, improve the batting as RTD was a spent force last year. Browne, Cook, Westley, Critch, Wheater, Walter, Khushi/Rymell/Buttleman/Pepper, should score sufficient runs. I certainly wouldnt hurt to have another front line batsmen (Ben Brown would be nice, but budget wont go that far), but think the bowling is more precarious. Cook and Porter have been relatively injury free but its not unusual for youngish pacemen to get big injuries that put them out for a long time, and i feel we have been lucky so far, but its a risk to hope they remain fit each game.
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Watching the BBL this morning, they mentioned James Pattinson has pulled out to focus on FC cricket. He said he is also playing CC this summer. Is he still at Notts?? (I wondered if we were an option as most teams seemed to have announced players now).
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Yes hes at Notts.
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Well by getting the dishonourable draw in the last test, no point in getting beaten in the final test, another dishonourable result would be most welcome .
Reported that Stokes and Bairstow to play only has batsmen to keep the momentum, which would mean Overton, Bess and Lawrence becoming the main tour netters and baggage handlers .
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After finally winning the toss and early wickets, England bowlers letting the proactive top order back in the game . Two Kent cricketers included in the side in Crawley and Billings, when did than last happen ?
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After finally winning the toss and early wickets, England bowlers letting the proactive top order back in the game . Two Kent cricketers included in the side in Crawley and Billings, when did than last happen ?
I think it was Joe Denly and Zak Crawley, first test against West Indies 2020.
I wonder when we'll next see 2 Essex players, or even one at this rate, in the England side.
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Wood may be quick but his economy rate is consistently high. We can't afford a bowler gifting so many runs to the opposition every match. Apparently Head benefitted from having an awful time at Sussex last season, playing on tricky pitches. Yet our batsman blame county wickets for their failures. You can't have it both ways.
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After finally winning the toss and early wickets, England bowlers letting the proactive top order back in the game . Two Kent cricketers included in the side in Crawley and Billings, when did than last happen ?
I think it was Joe Denly and Zak Crawley, first test against West Indies 2020.
I wonder when we'll next see 2 Essex players, or even one at this rate, in the England side.
Dan Lawrence will be in again soon enough
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With the bowling injuries England are getting Little Chef wont be long either.
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With the bowling injuries England are getting Little Chef wont be long either.
Robinson is his own worst enemy. Could be a world beater if he sorted himself out.
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With the bowling injuries England are getting Little Chef wont be long either.
Robinson is his own worst enemy. Could be a world beater if he sorted himself out.
Throw away his mobile for a start…
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Go now Harrison before you stink the place out any longer. Total humiliation.
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Go now Harrison before you stink the place out any longer. Total humiliation.
being a salesman he'll spin some +ves out of it.
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Clean sweep denied by one wicket dishonourable draw in the Fourth test, must now urk the Aussies.
With two days free in the final test should send them on a slow container ship back to Blighty. Perhaps some extra practice on the top containers might be appropriate.
How many test days lost with this series and last winters tour of India ? Hope my subscription will be suitably reimbursed !
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There has to be a fundamental reorganisation of county cricket to raise the standard of test match batting in particular otherwise we might as well give up. I like Agnew’s suggestion on BBC Sport. We are utterly hopeless & it is embarrassing to watch if any of us do!
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I assume you are joking? Agnew's suggestion is for a franchise championship with 10 teams which would mean the end of Essex ccc. Any comments Agnew makes about the championship are based on ignorance as he never attends a single day. Whenever a new player enters the England team he is clueless about them as he has never seen them play before. If only CMJ were still alive we might have some reasoned debate.
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I assume you are joking? Agnew's suggestion is for a franchise championship with 10 teams which would mean the end of Essex ccc. Any comments Agnew makes about the championship are based on ignorance as he never attends a single day. Whenever a new player enters the England team he is clueless about them as he has never seen them play before. If only CMJ were still alive we might have some reasoned debate.
yep spot on.
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To get a stronger test team the CC needs to be played throughout the season. Therefore
CC from May to September. two divs of 9 giving 16 matches same with blast.
Blast May to September. (not many go to see overseas star players, most go for a good night out with the cricket incidental.
50 over block at start of the season and/or during the Hundred.
Hundred (if we must) in as short a block as possible.
Release England Central Contract players at every opportunity to strengthen the CC.
There are more than enough weeks to have a CC and T20 round each week. I would suggest Friday evening T20 with CC running from Sunday to Wednesday. There is not so mutch Sunday recreationl cricket on Sundays any more. There would also be a day off between each CC and T20.
This would allow counties to have FC cricket all year with five or six weeks off. Players would allways have a chance of beeing in form for test call ups. Fees to OS players would not be needed. CC matches would be played on better pitches as they would not be squeezed into a few weeks at the start of the season when it is too hard to prepare good pitches anyway.
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To get a stronger test team the CC needs to be played throughout the season. Therefore
CC from May to September. two divs of 9 giving 16 matches same with blast.
Blast May to September. (not many go to see overseas star players, most go for a good night out with the cricket incidental.
50 over block at start of the season and/or during the Hundred.
Hundred (if we must) in as short a block as possible.
Release England Central Contract players at every opportunity to strengthen the CC.
There are more than enough weeks to have a CC and T20 round each week. I would suggest Friday evening T20 with CC running from Sunday to Wednesday. There is not so mutch Sunday recreationl cricket on Sundays any more. There would also be a day off between each CC and T20.
This would allow counties to have FC cricket all year with five or six weeks off. Players would allways have a chance of beeing in form for test call ups. Fees to OS players would not be needed. CC matches would be played on better pitches as they would not be squeezed into a few weeks at the start of the season when it is too hard to prepare good pitches anyway.
Agree except bin the *undred. It serves no purpose.
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I agree the Hundred should be binned, but it wont be.
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excellent proposals bobw. It would also remove the situation where single format players like Nick Browne are without cricket for weeks on end.
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I used to have respect for Agnew as being one of the last of the great TMS team.
Sadly it is now apparent he is ready for the funny farm.
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I don't know. With some adjustment Aggers' idea has some sense. He advocates 10 four day teams. Eight grounds, based in seven mainly ghastly big cities where there is little interest in the game, host 100 ball teams. Use the other 10 grounds (Chelmsford, Canterbury, Taunton, Cheltenham etc) where the true game is cherished to host the ten 4 day teams. Problem solved!
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I don't know. With some adjustment Aggers' idea has some sense. He advocates 10 four day teams. Eight grounds, based in seven mainly ghastly big cities where there is little interest in the game, host 100 ball teams. Use the other 10 grounds (Chelmsford, Canterbury, Taunton, Cheltenham etc) where the true game is cherished to host the ten 4 day teams. Problem solved!
But it wouldn’t be the “true game” as you call it.
It would be 10 f…ing franchises.
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My point, as it was all tongue in cheek, is that this is a power grab but the impact would be to remove cricket from the county towns and surrounding rural areas that are the bedrock of the game and where it is widely played. Remove it from Leeds, London and Manchester and play it where people who are interested in the true game live.
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It's always been the same. When we do badly in tests ( 1990's for instance) it's always the fault of the county structure. When we do well (2005 to 2015) it's the best competition in the world and nobody says a dicky bird. The reason we are in the current situation is obvious, the self confessed concentration entirely on the one day game by the appalling ECB at the expense of the longer format - internationally and domestically. They didn't hide the fact that that would be their priority. There are wider structural issues of course like the absence of cricket in state schools but the current debacle is entirely at the feet of Graves and Harrison and to some extent Strauss. The scapegoats of course will be the smaller counties who often provide the sole source of support for kids through outreach work, cricket schools and some school coaching. I'm really not sure how disposing of Derby, Northants and Leicestershire, for instance, and denying access to first class cricket and the infrastructures it provides can do anything other than diminish interest in cricket for whole swathes of the country. The Hundred may be of course the last nail in the coffin of the red ball game and I have yet to see any significant extra interest that it has generated.
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Perhaps any Aussie employed by a county a reciprocal arrangement has to take place for State side.
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I used to have respect for Agnew as being one of the last of the great TMS team.
Sadly it is now apparent he is ready for the funny farm.
Probably saw what happened to Vaughan and flipped. It's taken me until now to be able to comment on the pathetic ramblings of an ex-County seamer who made a career in the media on the basis of being a bit posh and having trundled in for a couple of tests but, like the miscreant Vaughan, now wants to cremate the County game that served him and numerous overseas players so well.
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I used to have respect for Agnew as being one of the last of the great TMS team.
Sadly it is now apparent he is ready for the funny farm.
Probably saw what happened to Vaughan and flipped. It's taken me until now to be able to comment on the pathetic ramblings of an ex-County seamer who made a career in the media on the basis of being a bit posh and having trundled in for a couple of tests but, like the miscreant Vaughan, now wants to cremate the County game that served him and numerous overseas players so well.
I know we haven’t always seen eye to eye Andy, but I think you are spot on here.
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It's always been the same. When we do badly in tests ( 1990's for instance) it's always the fault of the county structure. When we do well (2005 to 2015) it's the best competition in the world and nobody says a dicky bird. The reason we are in the current situation is obvious, the self confessed concentration entirely on the one day game by the appalling ECB at the expense of the longer format - internationally and domestically. They didn't hide the fact that that would be their priority. There are wider structural issues of course like the absence of cricket in state schools but the current debacle is entirely at the feet of Graves and Harrison and to some extent Strauss. The scapegoats of course will be the smaller counties who often provide the sole source of support for kids through outreach work, cricket schools and some school coaching. I'm really not sure how disposing of Derby, Northants and Leicestershire, for instance, and denying access to first class cricket and the infrastructures it provides can do anything other than diminish interest in cricket for whole swathes of the country. The Hundred may be of course the last nail in the coffin of the red ball game and I have yet to see any significant extra interest that it has generated.
Absolutely this.
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I used to have respect for Agnew as being one of the last of the great TMS team.
Sadly it is now apparent he is ready for the funny farm.
Probably saw what happened to Vaughan and flipped. It's taken me until now to be able to comment on the pathetic ramblings of an ex-County seamer who made a career in the media on the basis of being a bit posh and having trundled in for a couple of tests but, like the miscreant Vaughan, now wants to cremate the County game that served him and numerous overseas players so well.
I know we haven’t always seen eye to eye Andy, but I think you are spot on here.
Yes. Sadly I suspect that we will end up watching old County matches on YouTube in the near future.
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As much as I hate the idea of reducing the status of counties it doesn’t provide the foundation for future test players in its present form, even if more matches are played throughout the season in my view. There is no comparison between our mostly small county set ups & the state teams in Australia. I do think we have to raise the standard in the county game & if that means having a higher level competition so be it.
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I used to have respect for Agnew as being one of the last of the great TMS team.
Sadly it is now apparent he is ready for the funny farm.
Probably saw what happened to Vaughan and flipped. It's taken me until now to be able to comment on the pathetic ramblings of an ex-County seamer who made a career in the media on the basis of being a bit posh and having trundled in for a couple of tests but, like the miscreant Vaughan, now wants to cremate the County game that served him and numerous overseas players so well.
Don't worry, he'll be out of a job soon enough and the BBC won't be able to afford the rights for their precious Hundred.
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As much as I hate the idea of reducing the status of counties it doesn’t provide the foundation for future test players in its present form, even if more matches are played throughout the season in my view. There is no comparison between our mostly small county set ups & the state teams in Australia. I do think we have to raise the standard in the county game & if that means having a higher level competition so be it.
What is this obsession with the national side and in particular Australia?
If in football, England perform badly at a World Cup, would you hear about a root and branch restructuring of the Premier League and the Football League?
Apologies for repeating a comment I made a few months ago, but after many decades of the status quo in county cricket (up to 1963), we then had various innovations which were justified for financial reasons, such as the introduction of one day cricket and probably climaxing in 2000 with a two divisional championship. I could even swallow the T20 becoming a bedfellow in 2003, but since then it is pure knee jerk reactions every time England have a poor test series.
ENOUGH ! I and many cricket lovers like me don’t care that much about international cricket that we want to sacrifice a lifelong pleasure just for the sake of a successful national team who I struggle to identify with. I support Essex first and foremost, and England comes way below that for me.
Just my personal viewpoint, but I know I am not alone on this.
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You are not alone stewyww. I agree entirely. My interest in the test team usually involves the fortunes of Essex players. Reading the message boards of other counties this seems to be a common theme. I want Essex players to do well but am not overly concerned about the fortunes of England.
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As much as I hate the idea of reducing the status of counties it doesn’t provide the foundation for future test players in its present form, even if more matches are played throughout the season in my view. There is no comparison between our mostly small county set ups & the state teams in Australia. I do think we have to raise the standard in the county game & if that means having a higher level competition so be it.
In Australia, it is not the State system that works better than our county system, but the fact that cricket is played by a higher proportion of the population from the lowest levels of club cricket upwards. It has been the much more flexible grade cricket system that allows someone with talent to progress upwards faster in order to stretch themselves.
I had an Aussie dissertation student years back who played a fairly high standard of grade cricket where he faced test bowlers and played with/against batsmen who went on to the national team. Interestingly he had thought that there were better players who didn’t quite make it at national level, whereas seemingly lesser players (including Ricky Ponting) developed later and more fully. Yes, he felt that the county based system stifled this flexibility, but I fail to see how rebranding (fewer) counties as franchises is going to address that problem.
The game in this country really has become more elitist: if your parents aren’t rich enough, or your skin the wrong shade, you ain’t getting in. By giving fewer opportunities for new players in top level domestic cricket then are the rest ending up as semi pros or (more likely) drifting out of the game altogether?
Arguably sport has become a middle class plaything. As gorgeous as she is, Emma Raducanu reflects the social class with the money to spend on such frippery. Sport for All? My ar£e.
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As much as I hate the idea of reducing the status of counties it doesn’t provide the foundation for future test players in its present form, even if more matches are played throughout the season in my view. There is no comparison between our mostly small county set ups & the state teams in Australia. I do think we have to raise the standard in the county game & if that means having a higher level competition so be it.
In Australia, it is not the State system that works better than our county system, but the fact that cricket is played by a higher proportion of the population from the lowest levels of club cricket upwards. It has been the much more flexible grade cricket system that allows someone with talent to progress upwards faster in order to stretch themselves.
I had an Aussie dissertation student years back who played a fairly high standard of grade cricket where he faced test bowlers and played with/against batsmen who went on to the national team. Interestingly he had thought that there were better players who didn’t quite make it at national level, whereas seemingly lesser players (including Ricky Ponting) developed later and more fully. Yes, he felt that the county based system stifled this flexibility, but I fail to see how rebranding (fewer) counties as franchises is going to address that problem.
The game in this country really has become more elitist: if your parents aren’t rich enough, or your skin the wrong shade, you ain’t getting in. By giving fewer opportunities for new players in top level domestic cricket then are the rest ending up as semi pros or (more likely) drifting out of the game altogether?
Arguably sport has become a middle class plaything. As gorgeous as she is, Emma Raducanu reflects the social class with the money to spend on such frippery. Sport for All? My ar£e.
I quite agree regarding the parents who are rich enough. The club I coach at has youngsters from accross the board. However, the ones that will get on are the ones with parents who have a net and bowling machine in their back gardens, send their children to private schools and pay for extra coaching and nets time. The children are not any better at the moment thanothers, but give it a couple of years and the difference will be huge. We will also lose a number to that all pervading evil Football that does not know when seasons start and finnish.
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Yep it is no accident that the best players tend to come from private schools where there are better facilities, more opportunity to play/practice and greater priority given to cricket compared to football.
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My thoughts are that we do need a higher level of competition but that the county structure should remain as is.
My solution to this would be to add a red ball competition made up of 4/5 regions with each region pulling from a selection of counties. Games would then be played on the test match grounds over 5 days under full test match conditions. In effect these would be trials for the England team but by giving it official status it may well draw in some sponsorship for the ECB. These would be scheduled as much as possible to play in the middle of summer and contracted players to play if fit and not playing in a test match.
This would then enable the Championship to continue as normal, perhaps with the opportunity to reduce games to 3 days as some would like. The better 2 XI players would then be given the opportunity to step up and play a higher lever level of red ball cricket in a competition that people care about. The places opened up in 2 XI cricket could then be used to trial the better club players.
It is similar to a red ball equivalent to the Hundred but without the franchises and with a point of providing a pathway to the national team.
The good thing that came out of the Hundred last season was the absence of a lot of the usual overseas mercenaries provided the opportunity for younger, previously unknown, players to make a name for themselves. Some did and will get a contract again this year.
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My thoughts are that we do need a higher level of competition but that the county structure should remain as is.
My solution to this would be to add a red ball competition made up of 4/5 regions with each region pulling from a selection of counties. Games would then be played on the test match grounds over 5 days under full test match conditions. In effect these would be trials for the England team but by giving it official status it may well draw in some sponsorship for the ECB. These would be scheduled as much as possible to play in the middle of summer and contracted players to play if fit and not playing in a test match.
This would then enable the Championship to continue as normal, perhaps with the opportunity to reduce games to 3 days as some would like. The better 2 XI players would then be given the opportunity to step up and play a higher lever level of red ball cricket in a competition that people care about. The places opened up in 2 XI cricket could then be used to trial the better club players.
It is similar to a red ball equivalent to the Hundred but without the franchises and with a point of providing a pathway to the national team.
The good thing that came out of the Hundred last season was the absence of a lot of the usual overseas mercenaries provided the opportunity for younger, previously unknown, players to make a name for themselves. Some did and will get a contract again this year.
No, no, no.
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My thoughts are that we do need a higher level of competition but that the county structure should remain as is.
My solution to this would be to add a red ball competition made up of 4/5 regions with each region pulling from a selection of counties. Games would then be played on the test match grounds over 5 days under full test match conditions. In effect these would be trials for the England team but by giving it official status it may well draw in some sponsorship for the ECB. These would be scheduled as much as possible to play in the middle of summer and contracted players to play if fit and not playing in a test match.
This would then enable the Championship to continue as normal, perhaps with the opportunity to reduce games to 3 days as some would like. The better 2 XI players would then be given the opportunity to step up and play a higher lever level of red ball cricket in a competition that people care about. The places opened up in 2 XI cricket could then be used to trial the better club players.
It is similar to a red ball equivalent to the Hundred but without the franchises and with a point of providing a pathway to the national team.
The good thing that came out of the Hundred last season was the absence of a lot of the usual overseas mercenaries provided the opportunity for younger, previously unknown, players to make a name for themselves. Some did and will get a contract again this year.
Essentially Agnews plan, but with regions instead of franchises. Might as well go with 10 franchises than to devalue the county system further.
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Will the squad be arrested for breaking lockdowns? Could the authorities throw in a charge of crimes against the sanity of all England supporters?
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As much as I hate the idea of reducing the status of counties it doesn’t provide the foundation for future test players in its present form, even if more matches are played throughout the season in my view. There is no comparison between our mostly small county set ups & the state teams in Australia. I do think we have to raise the standard in the county game & if that means having a higher level competition so be it.
In Australia, it is not the State system that works better than our county system, but the fact that cricket is played by a higher proportion of the population from the lowest levels of club cricket upwards. It has been the much more flexible grade cricket system that allows someone with talent to progress upwards faster in order to stretch themselves.
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This is a good post.
Its all well and good saying we should mirror the shield but its comparing apples and oranges.
The population of Australia is 25million, England and Wales 60 odd million and growing.
6 state sides works for a small population base whereas we can support more teams. The caveat is that nowadays far less proportion of the UK population in cricket whereas i suspect most proportion in Australia still do. Despite this the base should still support more than 6 teams.
State teams get no support. Counties do. The majority of Australians live in the big cities/towns. Our population is far more spread out.
Division 1 was considered the highest standard of domestic cricket by Aussie overseas player in the 2000's.
The issue is not the number of counties, not with a 2 division structure, the best play the best, so there no need to change the number of teams so long as 2 divisions is maintained. The issues are the sidelining of the 4 day game for the limited overs one. Simple as that. play 4 day cricket on decent pitches in the actual summer and scores will go up, batsmen will bat longer, bowlers will have to find out ways to get them out rather than dobbing it around and relying on the pitch a la Stevens (and our seamers to an extent). Play with the kookaburra ball if needs be and give more batting points to encourage long innings.
It also boils down to the point of county cricket, to serve the England team or in its own right. given the skewed finances, nowadays it is to support the England team as without it counties would not be solvent.
Its also cyclical and a big noise over something that will always occur. They lose here we lose there. English conditions are alien to most others so our cricketers will be different. In the past they played as o/s in the Currie Cup which gave them experience of Australia like conditions, but still we didnt win much.
This is a huge hysteria over something that was of our own making and covid. No warm ups, lack of preparation, what did anyone expect? To jump from all that to say the whole county structure needs changing is nonsense, but in todays age where blame is always due and things have to e seen to be done to improve it instantly any failing/perceived injustice warrants a massive overreaction. Silly but i blame social media...the ills of most things can be laid at its door in all aspects of society.
TLDR, this is a fuss over nothing and just an excuse for those who want to destroy the 18 county structure.
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Steve made the point that there are 18 counties and 36 opening batsmen and those who went to Australia were the ones they chose and, presumably, the ones they thought were the best. If they reduce it to 8 or 10 counties, there would only be 16-20 opening batsmen, so even less choice for openers and all other positions in the team.
We don't like the present system whereby the big counties poach good players from the smaller counties, but it sort of works: the big counties then have to release decent players who can't get a game and who then find new homes at the smaller counties, so it's swings and roundabouts. If you cut down the number of counties, some of these good players may never see the light of day.
Lynda and Steve
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I wish there was a means of "liking" a post on this board. The last two are both excellent and reasonable.
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I live in Buckinghamshire and we still have Grammars so there is school cricket.
However the village clubs are closing through lack of volunteers/players. When we moved here the village had two teams - none now. The larger village which ran age group teams from 7 [with waiting lists] is gone as well as several others locally.
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I should also have said about Grade cricket. We do not have any equivalent here. The better Grade teams would give the weaker counties a very good game if not better them. Likewise the attitude is different...i belive its still the case that test players, there still turn out for their grade sides when they can. Can you imagine that happening in England, for SNEL or EAPL teams? This isn't a problem in itself as county cricket by having 18 teams, fills that gap to an extent, with the weaker clubs being the opportunity for discarded players (as poster mentions above) or those who mature later, to come again and get that chance. So to get rid of 6 or so counties completely removes that stepping post, so reducing counties will, imo, have an adverse effect on the talent pool. Some don't like it, but 2 divisions, with the better players moving to the division 1 counties, as we tend to see happen naturally nowadays (before covid) has the same effect as reducing teams with the intent of best vs best, (and a massive reason the conference system used last year was a silly idea) so to make it happen artificially is not needed and pointless, not even touching on the impact on the county fan of such a step and the creation of artificial non partisan franchises that no one cares about and riding roughshod over tradition.
I thinks there's a saying about players being 6 hundreds away from the test team in Australia. Score 3 for your grade team you make State. Score 3 in State you get in the test team.
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I agree with most of the above comments apart from one aspect. We do not have 18 counties. We have 18 counties and the England squad.
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I agree with most of the above comments apart from one aspect. We do not have 18 counties. We have 18 counties and the England squad.
Not a problem, if someone sees sense and decides that England players should be back playing for their counties at every available opportunity.
Lynda
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I agree with most of the above comments apart from one aspect. We do not have 18 counties. We have 18 counties and the England squad.
Not a problem, if someone sees sense and decides that England players should be back playing for their counties at every available opportunity.
Its one thing telling them to play for there Counties, but as a player you must want to play for your county, Chef was the best because even as England captain he wanted to play for us.
But 75% of the others have the Buttler/Pietersen attitude.
Rather than play as they did 20 years ago, they choose to rest and recuperate, joke!!!
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My thoughts are that we do need a higher level of competition but that the county structure should remain as is.
My solution to this would be to add a red ball competition made up of 4/5 regions with each region pulling from a selection of counties. Games would then be played on the test match grounds over 5 days under full test match conditions. In effect these would be trials for the England team but by giving it official status it may well draw in some sponsorship for the ECB. These would be scheduled as much as possible to play in the middle of summer and contracted players to play if fit and not playing in a test match.
This would then enable the Championship to continue as normal, perhaps with the opportunity to reduce games to 3 days as some would like. The better 2 XI players would then be given the opportunity to step up and play a higher lever level of red ball cricket in a competition that people care about. The places opened up in 2 XI cricket could then be used to trial the better club players.
It is similar to a red ball equivalent to the Hundred but without the franchises and with a point of providing a pathway to the national team.
The good thing that came out of the Hundred last season was the absence of a lot of the usual overseas mercenaries provided the opportunity for younger, previously unknown, players to make a name for themselves. Some did and will get a contract again this year.
This was what Agnew was advocating & I agree.
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My thoughts are that we do need a higher level of competition but that the county structure should remain as is.
My solution to this would be to add a red ball competition made up of 4/5 regions with each region pulling from a selection of counties. Games would then be played on the test match grounds over 5 days under full test match conditions. In effect these would be trials for the England team but by giving it official status it may well draw in some sponsorship for the ECB. These would be scheduled as much as possible to play in the middle of summer and contracted players to play if fit and not playing in a test match.
This would then enable the Championship to continue as normal, perhaps with the opportunity to reduce games to 3 days as some would like. The better 2 XI players would then be given the opportunity to step up and play a higher lever level of red ball cricket in a competition that people care about. The places opened up in 2 XI cricket could then be used to trial the better club players.
It is similar to a red ball equivalent to the Hundred but without the franchises and with a point of providing a pathway to the national team.
The good thing that came out of the Hundred last season was the absence of a lot of the usual overseas mercenaries provided the opportunity for younger, previously unknown, players to make a name for themselves. Some did and will get a contract again this year.
This was what Agnew was advocating & I agree.
Well Agnew was advocating 10 franchises rather than 4/5 regions but I’m glad that someone agrees 😄
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Why are you pleased that someone else wants to see the end of Essex CCC?
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My thoughts are that we do need a higher level of competition but that the county structure should remain as is.
My solution to this would be to add a red ball competition made up of 4/5 regions with each region pulling from a selection of counties. Games would then be played on the test match grounds over 5 days under full test match conditions. In effect these would be trials for the England team but by giving it official status it may well draw in some sponsorship for the ECB. These would be scheduled as much as possible to play in the middle of summer and contracted players to play if fit and not playing in a test match.
This would then enable the Championship to continue as normal, perhaps with the opportunity to reduce games to 3 days as some would like. The better 2 XI players would then be given the opportunity to step up and play a higher lever level of red ball cricket in a competition that people care about. The places opened up in 2 XI cricket could then be used to trial the better club players.
It is similar to a red ball equivalent to the Hundred but without the franchises and with a point of providing a pathway to the national team.
The good thing that came out of the Hundred last season was the absence of a lot of the usual overseas mercenaries provided the opportunity for younger, previously unknown, players to make a name for themselves. Some did and will get a contract again this year.
This was what Agnew was advocating & I agree.
Why?
When division 1 serves the same purpose, and we have a far larger talent pool to give opportunity to (in theory).
Do you not think its kneejerk given the mitigating factors:
- 4 day cricket completely de-prioritised in recent years by ECB, including the weakening of competition by the silly conference system last season
- Games played at beginning and end of season in worst conditions for developing batsmen and bowlers who have to think for themselves?
- No preparation for the Ashes tour in question
- Covid and the challenges that brings
Please have a go at explaining why they are not far more pressing and obvious factors than completely restructuring the whole of the game so the 'best play the best', which already happens in division 1, mostly.
A return to 1 up one down would further strengthen division 1.
If the above is done, as well as changing the ball and giving increased batting points to incentiveise long patient batting, and still we get humiliated at test cricket then by all means change the structure.
Not long ago we were ranked in the top 2 in test cricket with the exact same county structure as now. Whats changed - prioritization of limited overs cricket subsequently.
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Three divisions of six, one up one down, ten games, problem solved. Add in proper games against touring nations as well where counties either field their best sides or get fined/docked points.
I find it hard to believe a couple of folk on here actually support Essex based on what I've read about their proposals, basically advocating the club's demise.
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Three divisions of six, one up one down, ten games, problem solved. Add in proper games against touring nations as well where counties either field their best sides or get fined/docked points.
I find it hard to believe a couple of folk on here actually support Essex based on what I've read about their proposals, basically advocating the club's demise.
Ridiculous.
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Three divisions of six, one up one down, ten games, problem solved. Add in proper games against touring nations as well where counties either field their best sides or get fined/docked points.
I find it hard to believe a couple of folk on here actually support Essex based on what I've read about their proposals, basically advocating the club's demise.
Would certainly be preferable than complete restructure, but i still strongly advocate that a 9 or 8 team division 1 with 1 up one down, played in the proper summer, will have the desired impact.
A division of 6 limits those exposed to best vs best. The case of players developing late, that in Aus get picked up in Grade cricket and then thrown back to State at 25+ would be stuck in lower divisions and 3 would become semi pro over time imo. We need division 2 to give chances to those late developers/2nd chancers that club cricket here and National Counties doesn't offer as the standard is nowhere near good enough (no fault of the clubs) look at Critch I'm fairly sure he started at Lancs but was released as a youth. Were it not for Derbys giving him a chance to and a wage to live on he would be lost to the game. Now hes done well and will be playing in Division 1 next season with opportunity to test himself against the best.
The problem with first class county cricket, is summed up by 2 words. Darren Stevens. Yes hes a canny bowler but he is not so good as to be such a force at his age. Its all thats wrong with things. Poor pitches played in unhelpful batting conditions times of year have led to this. A decade ago you didn't get players like him having such an impact.
I don't blame him and Kent for his success or picking him, until the powers that be make sure cricket is played on good pitches at times of year that are conducive to good pitches he will remain effective. Play on good pitches in the actual summer and his like will naturally drop away as they will be ineffective other than as a few overs as 3rd change. He may remain in the game as a batsmen but his dobbers would go the way of the dodo.
This won't help Essex as Porter and Cook rely too much on pitches (witness how poor we are seam bowling wise on any pitch that doesn't offer anything off it), whereas someone like Beard who has extra pace but goes for a few and doesn't seam it much, is never plays as he doesn't suit the conditions. I think Cook has the skills to bowl on flat pitches, not sure about Porter so much, but it has to be done.
edited for spelling.
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Why would division three become semi pro? You don't see football clubs in England going semi pro because they aren't in the Premier League. Folk go to support the counties, the opposition should be irrelevant to them. The counties will still get the same amount of cash from the ECB, although they should be constantly monitored as to how they use the cash. More importantly, it would hopefully prove the catalyst to give the constantly rubbish red ball counties a good boot up the arse and actually put some effort into their red ball systems as Essex did years ago to great success. In fact, counties in lower division would gain even more cash as those from higher divisions should be given the ability to buy players for fees. The likes of Surrey and Lancashire are making money hand over fist, so let them pour some of that cash into those counties with less means.
Fans of counties such as Essex with a non Test match ground or Hundred franchise are going to have to accept that if they want the County Championship to survive being culled over the next few years in favour of regional/franchise cricket, the number of games will have to be reduced to fit it in over a period of June-July-early September. I hate the Hundred as much as the next fan, but I've accepted that it's going nowhere. We either learn to live with it or wilt and die.
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Why are you pleased that someone else wants to see the end of Essex CCC?
Who said anything about seeing the end of Essex CCC?
What I proposed was regional games to sit above the County Championship to act as a trial system for the national team and retaining the 18 counties.
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Why are you pleased that someone else wants to see the end of Essex CCC?
Who said anything about seeing the end of Essex CCC?
What I proposed was regional games to sit above the County Championship to act as a trial system for the national team and retaining the 18 counties.
Yes and as a result advocating the end of Essex Cricket. I have no interest in watching our club act as a feeder for some regional non-entities. That will be the end of my support and that of thousands of other fans no doubt. Goodbye membership fees, goodbye Essex.
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I think today's fixtures say it all.
How many 4 day games in April, early may and September?
And they wonder why batsmen don't bat long or why bowlers have no skills on non helpful pitches.
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I know the telly wouldn't like it, but I've thought for some time on purely cricketing lines that there should be a compact short form season in September after the championship has finished. No bad light or dewy mornings either.
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Why are you pleased that someone else wants to see the end of Essex CCC?
Who said anything about seeing the end of Essex CCC?
What I proposed was regional games to sit above the County Championship to act as a trial system for the national team and retaining the 18 counties.
Yes and as a result advocating the end of Essex Cricket. I have no interest in watching our club act as a feeder for some regional non-entities. That will be the end of my support and that of thousands of other fans no doubt. Goodbye membership fees, goodbye Essex.
All counties act as a feeder for the England team so what is the real difference to also providing players for a handful of trial games per season?
They might not clash with championship games as the purpose would be to play in the middle of summer under test match conditions.
Either way it would give younger players the opportunity to step up and prove themselves.