Essex Outfielder : The Unofficial Essex CCC Forum
Cricket => Essex Eagles T20 => Topic started by: bobw on January 18, 2015, 05:58:24 PM
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Interesting article in the Sunday Telegraph today.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/11352638/What-English-cricket-can-learn-from-the-Big-Bash-and-still-make-a-profit.html
But what does it infer for the CC?
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that's a really good read.
As mentioned in the article T20 needs to be in the summer months when school children, on holidays can attend.
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Essex want boozers on a Friday night though.
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Essex want boozers on a Friday night though.
True enough.
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I have watched it and it is far better than ours.It is condensed so you can get in decent overseas players(Flintoff excluded)for the whole thing and the ECB need to look at the franchise system because the whole thing is more concentrated-less is more.
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I have watched it and it is far better than ours.It is condensed so you can get in decent overseas players(Flintoff excluded)for the whole thing and the ECB need to look at the franchise system because the whole thing is more concentrated-less is more.
This is the first year that i've watched it and agree, i think its better than ours, but as mentioned in that article ours is a few years older and probably just needs a bit of refreshing.
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Regardless of the quality, if the BB loses money then is that the way to go. Our T20 is profitable and that is what matters!
If the T20 is concentrated in the Summer then there would be even less than the one or two CC games in July/August. The CC would become an April/may/June then September/October competition on wet wickets with the weather dictating who wins each year.
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the weather dictating who wins each year.
Larry does love an excuse ...
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Regardless of the quality, if the BB loses money then is that the way to go. Our T20 is profitable and that is what matters!
If the T20 is concentrated in the Summer then there would be even less than the one or two CC games in July/August. The CC would become an April/may/June then September/October competition on wet wickets with the weather dictating who wins each year.
If you move the One Day Cup to the start of the year like the old B&H Cup then you'd have more days available for CC cricket in July and August.
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Same old argument with t20 in this country - everyone calls for it to be played in a block when previously they wanted it spaced out as we have now!!!
Having watched most of the Big Bash it is for me the best t20 comp in the world - it's very well designed and organised and comes across very well on tv. People here at work were begging me to keep putting it on the tv each morning because they loved it, not least the flashing bails and stumps!!!
The problem is a franchise comp in England will not work because there are too many counties and so you can't have games at all grounds.
Where do we go from here? I think the group format is fine - I think the block format as previous would work well as long as it's in a block where there is no international cricket meaning all England players can play for their counties and as long as teams have no more than 2 home games a week and at least 4 days between. To accommodate you could have teams play each other just once in the group - less could be more!
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Same old argument with t20 in this country - everyone calls for it to be played in a block when previously they wanted it spaced out as we have now!!!
Having watched most of the Big Bash it is for me the best t20 comp in the world - it's very well designed and organised and comes across very well on tv. People here at work were begging me to keep putting it on the tv each morning because they loved it, not least the flashing bails and stumps!!!
The problem is a franchise comp in England will not work because there are too many counties and so you can't have games at all grounds.
Where do we go from here? I think the group format is fine - I think the block format as previous would work well as long as it's in a block where there is no international cricket meaning all England players can play for their counties and as long as teams have no more than 2 home games a week and at least 4 days between. To accommodate you could have teams play each other just once in the group - less could be more!
and then when it rains ...
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you lose a lot of games/income/interest.
(Rhetorical) Q: How many BB games were lost to rain this year?
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Give in to demands for a franchised T20 like the IPL and Big Bash. Off the top of my head you could have the 8 teams/grounds as follows:-
London - Lords
Birmingham - Edgbaston
Manchester - Old Trafford
Leeds - Headingley
Southampton - Rose Bowl
Nottingham - Trent Bridge
Newcastle - Riverside
Cardiff - Swalec
All players plus overseas go in to an auction and are allocated to teams regardless of which county they play for.
ALL profits at the end of the tournament are divided equally across all 18 first class counties.
That should keep everyone happy, including those who decry crash and wallop matches.
Onlyproblem for this format, which most calling for it seem to have overlooked is where does the cash come from to fund it?
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Give in to demands for a franchised T20 like the IPL and Big Bash. Off the top of my head you could have the 8 teams/grounds as follows:-
London - Lords
Birmingham - Edgbaston
Manchester - Old Trafford
Leeds - Headingley
Southampton - Rose Bowl
Nottingham - Trent Bridge
Newcastle - Riverside
Cardiff - Swalec
All players plus overseas go in to an auction and are allocated to teams regardless of which county they play for.
ALL profits at the end of the tournament are divided equally across all 18 first class counties.
That should keep everyone happy, including those who decry crash and wallop matches.
Onlyproblem for this format, which most calling for it seem to have overlooked is where does the cash come from to fund it?
It wouldnt keep Surrey, Sussex, Kent, Somerset and Essex supporters happy. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that more people would want to watch Nottingham play at Trent Bridge than Nottinghamshire or more people would watch Manchester play at Old Trafford rather than Lancashire. I honestly think that reducing the counties to 8 francise teams would be a disaster. I think you would lose far more people than you would gain.
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Give in to demands for a franchised T20 like the IPL and Big Bash. Off the top of my head you could have the 8 teams/grounds as follows:-
London - Lords
Birmingham - Edgbaston
Manchester - Old Trafford
Leeds - Headingley
Southampton - Rose Bowl
Nottingham - Trent Bridge
Newcastle - Riverside
Cardiff - Swalec
All players plus overseas go in to an auction and are allocated to teams regardless of which county they play for.
ALL profits at the end of the tournament are divided equally across all 18 first class counties.
That should keep everyone happy, including those who decry crash and wallop matches.
Onlyproblem for this format, which most calling for it seem to have overlooked is where does the cash come from to fund it?
It wouldnt keep Surrey, Sussex, Kent, Somerset and Essex supporters happy. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that more people would want to watch Nottingham play at Trent Bridge than Nottinghamshire or more people would watch Manchester play at Old Trafford rather than Lancashire. I honestly think that reducing the counties to 8 francise teams would be a disaster. I think you would lose far more people than you would gain.
I agree with you but there are so many people, mostly ex-pros, saying that we must learn from the IPL and BBL and go with franchises that I believe that the bandwagon will gather pace and it will happen in a couple of years.
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JasonP I'm afraid you're wasting your breath. Had this out on here and of FB. Seems people forget that this country is not Australia (heavily centred on 6 urban centres) plus the fact that the T20 competition has generally worked well, despite the almost constant tinkering. Looking at how interest declined in the IPL once local big name players started moving franchises and the inevitable corruption one gets with
Unfortunately, seems so-called supporters of this club want to destroy it for the sake of certain big name counties who have nearly bankrupted themselves over the past decade with ridiculous building projects, based on overly optimistic assessments of the interest in a game that, fundamentally, is killing itself through no terrestrial TV coverage and stupid money being paid for mediocre players and agents. That was a long sentence.
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Shows you don't have to be too bright to be an ex-pro - or is it because they can see an nice little earner with coaching a franchise...?
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Shows you don't have to be too bright to be an ex-pro - or is it because they can see an nice little earner with coaching a franchise...?
Both characteristics apply.
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Shows you don't have to be too bright to be an ex-pro - or is it because they can see an nice little earner with coaching a franchise...?
Dim ex pros as coaching candidates for potential franchises?
There might be something to this 20/20 lark after all ...
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Trouble is the game wont stand still and wait for us.There are now 3 other events that players can make a living from if you include the Caribbean Premier League and they are all condensed so if you want to see the better players and therefore better T20 games things will have to change.
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Trouble is the game wont stand still and wait for us.There are now 3 other events that players can make a living from if you include the Caribbean Premier League and they are all condensed so if you want to see the better players and therefore better T20 games things will have to change.
This was one of the big myths of the Big Bash. The best Aussie players like Warner, Smith and Johnson didnt play a single game. Most of the overseas players were players like Lumb, Carberry, Stokes, Bresnan, Wright, Roy. Players that couldnt make it into the England World Cup Squad. In the 2 semi finals the overseas players were Botha, ten Doeschate, Lumb, Wessels, Pietersen, Wright, Carberry and Arafat. 7 of which played in the t20 Blast last year and none of them apart from Pietersen big names. The only tournament that gets the big names is the IPL and that is because of the huge money that they have over there.
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Did the BBL actually make a profit? I heard it is a loss leader to keep up the profile of the game rather than a huge money spinner - maybe more of a money-puts-a-little-off-cutters?
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Did the BBL actually make a profit? I heard it is a loss leader to keep up the profile of the game rather than a huge money spinner - maybe more of a money-puts-a-little-off-cutters?
There is a big article on Cricinfo today.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/big-bash-league-2014-15/content/current/story/826015.html
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Did the BBL actually make a profit? I heard it is a loss leader to keep up the profile of the game rather than a huge money spinner - maybe more of a money-puts-a-little-off-cutters?
There is a big article on Cricinfo today.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/big-bash-league-2014-15/content/current/story/826015.html
So, a loss making exercise that is persevered with - unlike our T20 which was doing OK until idiots started messing around with fixtures.
The lessons from BBL are that you need to take time to grow support without hysterical changes to working formats, oh and get terrestrial TV coverage...
Franchises, my a@~'e.
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So, a loss making exercise that is persevered with - unlike our T20 which was doing OK until idiots started messing around with fixtures.
The lessons from BBL are that you need to take time to grow support without hysterical changes to working formats, oh and get terrestrial TV coverage...
Franchises, my a@~'e.
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My point exactly on starting the thread. The whole point of T20 is to make money. Why copy a loss making model? I would keep the current structure (even though it squeezes the CC) for a number of years to let the competition develop. The bringing in of overseas stars seems to be a huge cost for little added reward. In say two or three years the will probably need to be some changes to keep the product fresh, but until receipts start to fall keep a product that works!
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Another way to look at it is that the BBL, IPL, and CPL all have the same players playing in the same, or very similar, number of times so why not have a worldwide T20 roadshow?
You could have 8 teams made up of the worlds top players travelling the world like a circus playing a separate competition in Australia, India, West Indies and England. They could also include NZ, SA and anywhere else that hosts a T20 bash so that no-one is left out.
When the same international players are being recruited to play in each country it ceases to be a domestic competition to an extent anyway.
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Kind of like the Harlem Globetrotters.
Mind you even they don't chalk up as many air miles as RTD.
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FRANCHISES=FAN DISFRANCHISEMENT >:(
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How many people will really follow a Franchise based in London? Players will simply go where the money is best with no loyalty to the Club/Franchise, there will be core of supporters, personally I won't go to watch a London team whoever it contains even if any Essex players are involved.
Like many other true cricket lovers I will follow my County, I guess the T20 will be tweaked to improve the product but I remain unconvinced that Franchises will really take off in England.
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The franchise advocates fail to understand that sport in the UK is tribal. People in Football, Rugby & Cricket have their teams from early in their lives and largely stick with them through thick and thin. This may be irrational but it sustains our sport. I simply do not believe there are thousands of "floating fans" who would support a franchise. In Yorkshire very few would travel to Headingley to support a Leeds team, but they do come to watch Yorkshire. I have heard this many times when the subject is debated.
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Exile - I am of the same opinion as you but we are both assuming that T20 franchises would be watched by traditional cricket supporters.
Say the teams were packed with the top players from the Asian countries; would a Leeds team still struggle to Headingley for 7 games?
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Exile - I am of the same opinion as you but we are both assuming that T20 franchises would be watched by traditional cricket supporters.
Say the teams were packed with the top players from the Asian countries; would a Leeds team still struggle to Headingley for 7 games?
Unfortunately this i agree with. if you get the right players and sell/advertise the games properly people will fill the stadiums to watch them. Didn't one of the BBL games have a crowd of 52k.
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Exile - I am of the same opinion as you but we are both assuming that T20 franchises would be watched by traditional cricket supporters.
Say the teams were packed with the top players from the Asian countries; would a Leeds team still struggle to Headingley for 7 games?
Unfortunately this i agree with. if you get the right players and sell/advertise the games properly people will fill the stadiums to watch them. Didn't one of the BBL games have a crowd of 52k.
More is less. Clearly, Cricket Australia are past masters at innovative and attractive marketing campaigns. They pioneered floodlit day/night cricket, coloured clothing, stump mics and cams, cameras at either end of the ground all key and now common practice around the world. However, Kerry Packer's and his go-getting 9 network played a pivotal part in introducing and establishing that - it caught the public imagination!
Secondly, the Big Bash is scheduled in Australian school holidays - well, the major part of the competition is.
Thirdly, the established international cricket stadia are incomparable; SCG 48,000. MCG; 98,000. The now completed, redeveloped Adelaide Oval; 52,000. Gabba; 36,000, even the time limited and uncertain future of the WACA; 25,000. What comparative stadia do the ECB counties possess?
The growing influence of wannabe test match venues, such as the Rosebowl, Swalec stadium, et al and their need to gain revenue to offset the crippling cost of those redevelopments, with fierce competition and significant risk of not being awarded a test match will drive the franchise plans onwards. Backed by Murdoch, it will inevitably become city based franchises.
Exactly where this leaves No Change Essex, whose abject failure to even deliver a redevelopment project to increase its capacity by a mere 1,500-2,000, is anyone's guess. Although Andy seems to have a pretty good idea! ;)
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One factor that is always lost in the franchise argument is the impact on the youngsters who sit around the boundaries at the likes of Chelmsford, Hove and Canterbury, many of whom arrive unaccompanied having travelled under their own steam. Will they want or be able to trog up to London? Could they afford the fare or the tickets?
There is as much chance of any EPL being on free to air TV as RTD turning down an IPL contract. So with Sky having the rest of cricket sewn up where will these youngsters be able to see the players who will inspire them to be the stars of tommorrow?
Cricket is a provincial game not a metropolitan one. I've been to many Essex away games at Slurry and the proportion of youngsters in the crowd is a fraction of that at the ECG even on a Friday. A game watched entirely by City suits and lager louts will not secure the long term future of cricket.
If there is to be new Franchise based T20 competiton IT will need to be as well as,not instead of, the exiting county competition.
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Exile - I am of the same opinion as you but we are both assuming that T20 franchises would be watched by traditional cricket supporters.
Say the teams were packed with the top players from the Asian countries; would a Leeds team still struggle to Headingley for 7 games?
Unfortunately this i agree with. if you get the right players and sell/advertise the games properly people will fill the stadiums to watch them. Didn't one of the BBL games have a crowd of 52k.
More is less. Clearly, Cricket Australia are past masters at innovative and attractive marketing campaigns. They pioneered floodlit day/night cricket, coloured clothing, stump mics and cams, cameras at either end of the ground all key and now common practice around the world. However, Kerry Packer's and his go-getting 9 network played a pivotal part in introducing and establishing that - it caught the public imagination!
Secondly, the Big Bash is scheduled in Australian school holidays - well, the major part of the competition is.
Thirdly, the established international cricket stadia are incomparable; SCG 48,000. MCG; 98,000. The now completed, redeveloped Adelaide Oval; 52,000. Gabba; 36,000, even the time limited and uncertain future of the WACA; 25,000. What comparative stadia do the ECB counties possess?
The growing influence of wannabe test match venues, such as the Rosebowl, Swalec stadium, et al and their need to gain revenue to offset the crippling cost of those redevelopments, with fierce competition and significant risk of not being awarded a test match will drive the franchise plans onwards. Backed by Murdoch, it will inevitably become city based franchises.
Exactly where this leaves No Change Essex, whose abject failure to even deliver a redevelopment project to increase its capacity by a mere 1,500-2,000, is anyone's guess. Although Andy seems to have a pretty good idea! ;)
It leaves them without huge debts. As you said there are too many wannabe Test match venues as it is. Yorkshire are struggling badly financially. Gloucestershire have spent a lot of money on redevelopment to get International cricket and it has meant financial losses and a big loss of their playing staff.
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One factor that is always lost in the franchise argument is the impact on the youngsters who sit around the boundaries at the likes of Chelmsford, Hove and Canterbury, many of whom arrive unaccompanied having travelled under their own steam. Will they want or be able to trog up to London? Could they afford the fare or the tickets?
There is as much chance of any EPL being on free to air TV as RTD turning down an IPL contract. So with Sky having the rest of cricket sewn up where will these youngsters be able to see the players who will inspire them to be the stars of tommorrow?
Cricket is a provincial game not a metropolitan one. I've been to many Essex away games at Slurry and the proportion of youngsters in the crowd is a fraction of that at the ECG even on a Friday. A game watched entirely by City suits and lager louts will not secure the long term future of cricket.
If there is to be new Franchise based T20 competiton IT will need to be as well as,not instead of, the exiting county competition.
I agree which is why I suggested the franchises be based, for want of a better description, around the travelling circus.
For example Chennai could become Adelaide, London and Trinidad as they move around the countries. Eight teams playing each other once over a group stage with the top 4 going to the semi finals, over a 4 week period beginning the last week of July.
That would keep those demanding that type of thing happy while the domestic T20 continues as a Friday night competition.
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One of the down sides to the rise of JPSL on Sunday afternoons was the end of the Cavalier's matches. A travelling circus of an all-star team playing counties a la the Harlem Globetrotters could work. Providing KP gets to play - he'll have to shave his head and call himself Curly. Could even make a cartoon about them...
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Just have to replace "Sweet Georgia Brown" with "The Lion Sleeps Tonight".