England shambles

[tonk]

Looks like being loyal to some players has  not worked.Unless there is a marked improvement 2nd knock then at least one head needs to roll. They also need to show a bit of bottle.

[Perov]

Looks like being loyal to some players has  not worked.Unless there is a marked improvement 2nd knock then at least one head needs to roll. They also need to show a bit of bottle.

On the basis that when Essex are a shambles, people call for Grayson to go, I guess you mean Flower must resign?

[Andy]

Looks like being loyal to some players has  not worked.Unless there is a marked improvement 2nd knock then at least one head needs to roll. They also need to show a bit of bottle.

On the basis that when Essex are a shambles, people call for Grayson to go, I guess you mean Flower must resign?

Flowers going anyway, isn't he? Something seriously wrong has gone in the dressing room. I'm not saying there are no technical problems (nice one, Gooch) but we know what a punt KP is and the other big egos amongst the established core.

Rumours around that Cook was resigning if it went badly wrong here.

[Valentines Park]

Flowers going anyway, isn't he?

Can we have him here?

Sorting out our non-existent batting & Fozzy's lousy captaincy would be child's play after dealing with KP on a regular basis.

[Stringbok]

England's management exhibit a degree of pig headed obstinacy that doesn't help their cause.  It was inevitable that having tried Root as an opener they would promote him back up the order to replace Trott whilst the blindingly obvious choice for number 3 was Bell. If Bell had bated with Carbery instead of the tail the Ego could have come in with a few runs on the board.

such is the incompetence of the tail that it may not have made much difference but you have to give yourself as much chance as possible. If Flower does not make this simple change in the second innings them I would seriously question his sanity.

[Andy]

Did anyone notice how Geoff Miller left hurriedly in the late summer? I wonder what's been going on.

I would laugh if certain England regulars lose their central contracts, especially as they hardly look an attractive proposition for an IPL franchise after their pre-Christmas stuffing.

[firehazard]

England's management exhibit a degree of pig headed obstinacy that doesn't help their cause.  It was inevitable that having tried Root as an opener they would promote him back up the order to replace Trott whilst the blindingly obvious choice for number 3 was Bell. If Bell had bated with Carbery instead of the tail the Ego could have come in with a few runs on the board.

such is the incompetence of the tail that it may not have made much difference but you have to give yourself as much chance as possible. If Flower does not make this simple change in the second innings them I would seriously question his sanity.

Absolutely. Bell was so much the obvious choice to bat at 3 that it defies belief that he didn't.

There'll be a few of this squad who'll never play for England again after this tour. And maybe Cook will need that benefit after all.

[afinetickletoleg]

England's management exhibit a degree of pig headed obstinacy that doesn't help their cause.  It was inevitable that having tried Root as an opener they would promote him back up the order to replace Trott whilst the blindingly obvious choice for number 3 was Bell. If Bell had bated with Carbery instead of the tail the Ego could have come in with a few runs on the board.

So if Bell had come in at 3 then Carberry would not have got out?

Bell has had the vast majority of his success at 5 and I believe his worst stats are at 3 so why create a problem to solve a problem?  IMO it was the right decision to move an opening bat back up the order, rather than hiding him at 6, and filling the space down the order.

[IlfordEagle]

Having an opener batting at no 3 is usually a good ploy as they are used to facing a new ball anyway (with Essex we should have openers batting down to about no 6 bearing in mind our problems!!). England need to have a good look atemselves if as we expected we get thrashed tomorrow, Carberry deserves further chances as does Stokes although he needs to improve his bowling - he is a really a 4th rather than 3rd seamer, I think it more likely Bresnan will come back at Perth. Ally also needs big runs & quickly, his second innings shot to get out was dreadful, somewhat out of character.

[pablo]

Surely one of the main reasons for this shambles is the lack of cricket most of this team have had since August. In that time Cook for instance has hardly picked up a bat in anger and opportunities to play for us in September were blocked. Australia in contrast have been in India ,albeit in limited overs stuff, and look much more ready for the fray.Keeping them fresh has in my view has resulted in them being seriously undercooked - no pun intended. If the fear was that key players would be injured in 'meaningless' county games then surely injury is just as likely to happen in the artificial environment of nets. Players need to have momentum and time in the middle to find their form and in Cook's case and possibly Prior's, Pietersen's and Swann's too, they haven't had it.

[Andy]

Tickle has been proved right. Root is seen as a top order bat and is going to have to learn the hard way. He's not a complete novice to the international game now. Every two bit commentator points to poor techniques, but what has Gooch et al been doing?

I actually sympathise with resting the players in the late summer here, because of the incessant touring up to that point. However, because the selectors have clearly got it into their minds that county cricketers (and cricket in general) is so poor they ignore county form. Have to feel sorry for the likes of Chopra - who clearly 'not good enough' despite consistently getting a few runs.

[firehazard]

...Bell has had the vast majority of his success at 5 and I believe his worst stats are at 3 so why create a problem to solve a problem? ...

But actually Bell's highest test score (235 v. India) was batting at no. 3.

[Gilders]

The bold step would be for them to play Tymal Mills at Perth:

Quickest English bowler at around 94mph - right up there with Johnson who has been the Xfactor bowler
Already out there with EPP and helping team warm up
Left armer - see Johnson's success
Opposition not yet played against him so he may surprise
Showed what he could do on a Chelmsford featherbed against England this Summer - from what I recall he dismissed Cook & Trott and hit Root, Bresnan & Swann.  Imagine what he might do on a raging quick Perth wicket which is what they're obviously going to prepare.

Seems to me he's a better bet than playing a steady but slower seamer (low to mid 80s) as they have proved ineffective in Aussie conditions.

Drop both spinners, play him as one of 4 seamers with Anderson Broad and AN Other.  Can't go much worse can it?

[Mog]

Tickle has been proved right. Root is seen as a top order bat and is going to have to learn the hard way. He's not a complete novice to the international game now. Every two bit commentator points to poor techniques, but what has Gooch et al been doing?

I actually sympathise with resting the players in the late summer here, because of the incessant touring up to that point. However, because the selectors have clearly got it into their minds that county cricketers (and cricket in general) is so poor they ignore county form. Have to feel sorry for the likes of Chopra - who clearly 'not good enough' despite consistently getting a few runs.

Absolutely, if such an esteemed judge as our own head coach, clearly didn't even believe Varun Chopra was good enough to open for No Change Essex, then there's no way he'd cut it for England!

[afinetickletoleg]

...Bell has had the vast majority of his success at 5 and I believe his worst stats are at 3 so why create a problem to solve a problem? ...

But actually Bell's highest test score (235 v. India) was batting at no. 3.

So?  Napier scored 150 once in a T20 but has never been able to get anywhere near it again.