England shambles

[afinetickletoleg]

Surely one of the main reasons for this shambles is the lack of cricket most of this team have had since August. In that time Cook for instance has hardly picked up a bat in anger and opportunities to play for us in September were blocked. Australia in contrast have been in India ,albeit in limited overs stuff, and look much more ready for the fray.Keeping them fresh has in my view has resulted in them being seriously undercooked - no pun intended. If the fear was that key players would be injured in 'meaningless' county games then surely injury is just as likely to happen in the artificial environment of nets. Players need to have momentum and time in the middle to find their form and in Cook's case and possibly Prior's, Pietersen's and Swann's too, they haven't had it.

Totally agree.  This is an example where the control of central contracts has not worked and also IMO explains our poor record in the first test of series, especially overseas.

[Andy]

Whilst I understand the clamour for Rankin, or even Mills, I'd hate for the latter's England career to be associated with an Antipodean chorus of "he bowls to the left, he bowls to the right".

It's taken a long time for Johnson to realise his potential: and the British meja has form in calling for a player then slating him.

Maybe the Ego & others like him will stomp off to India, where they still worship old bulls.

[firehazard]

...Bell has had the vast majority of his success at 5 and I believe his worst stats are at 3 so why create a problem to solve a problem? ...

But actually Bell's highest test score (235 v. India) was batting at no. 3.

So?  Napier scored 150 once in a T20 but has never been able to get anywhere near it again.

But it does demonstrate that batting at 3 is something that Bell's quite capable of doing successfully. Contrary to what you stated, in fact his worst test stats are batting at 2 or 4. And in terms of his average, his best position is 6. He's actually scored test centuries batting at five different positions in the order, so he's been moved around a fair bit over the years. And given the current uselessness, for the most part, of the England lower order, there's an argument for getting him in early.

[Andy]

There's certainly a need to revisit just how many full Central Contracts are given out. I suspect that there will be (voluntary?) retirements from the Test side after Christmas, which given that there's not an obviously long queue to replace them, maybe more fractional contracts will be made - maybe allowing the 'net' to be thrown a little wider?

In this way, Team England is able to get more control over the peripheral players: not so much the likes of Foakes (who may go the way of CHopra and go backwards for a few years) but those closer to international 'puberty'.

However, this means TE have to think through their 'resting' of key players. Of course, it is ridiculous to have back-to-back Ashes series - reflecting the obsession the ICC have with their little tournaments...

[JasonP]

Surely one of the main reasons for this shambles is the lack of cricket most of this team have had since August. In that time Cook for instance has hardly picked up a bat in anger and opportunities to play for us in September were blocked. Australia in contrast have been in India ,albeit in limited overs stuff, and look much more ready for the fray.Keeping them fresh has in my view has resulted in them being seriously undercooked - no pun intended. If the fear was that key players would be injured in 'meaningless' county games then surely injury is just as likely to happen in the artificial environment of nets. Players need to have momentum and time in the middle to find their form and in Cook's case and possibly Prior's, Pietersen's and Swann's too, they haven't had it.

Most of the Aussies didnt play the one day series in India.  Rogers, Warner, Smith, Clarke, Siddle, Lyon and Harris didnt.  Only Johnson, Haddin, Bailey and Watson did.

[afinetickletoleg]

Surely one of the main reasons for this shambles is the lack of cricket most of this team have had since August. In that time Cook for instance has hardly picked up a bat in anger and opportunities to play for us in September were blocked. Australia in contrast have been in India ,albeit in limited overs stuff, and look much more ready for the fray.Keeping them fresh has in my view has resulted in them being seriously undercooked - no pun intended. If the fear was that key players would be injured in 'meaningless' county games then surely injury is just as likely to happen in the artificial environment of nets. Players need to have momentum and time in the middle to find their form and in Cook's case and possibly Prior's, Pietersen's and Swann's too, they haven't had it.

Most of the Aussies didnt play the one day series in India.  Rogers, Warner, Smith, Clarke, Siddle, Lyon and Harris didnt.  Only Johnson, Haddin, Bailey and Watson did.

They might not have played in India but I bet they were playing some cricket.  That is the point.

[sufcessex]

they were saying on talk sport that Johnson played in a shield match prior to the ashes starting.  hasn't done him any harm.

[Stringbok]

After the third day at Perth there can be little doubt, if there ever was any, that the Ashes are gone.  A 5-0 thrashing looks a distinct possibility.  This disgraceful performance calls for a root and branch investigation into the deficiencies of English cricket. We could call it ......the Scholfield report.

[nat]

After the third day at Perth there can be little doubt, if there ever was any, that the Ashes are gone.  A 5-0 thrashing looks a distinct possibility.  This disgraceful performance calls for a root and branch investigation into the deficiencies of English cricket. We could call it ......the Scholfield report.

It is simply many of the more senior players losing their hunger. End of the road for Petersen, Trott, Prior, Swan. Broad needs to be dropped until/if he show a more mature approach to the game (I'm old enough to have seen his Dad play and Stuart is a chip off the old block).

[Andy]

Well, you have to ask whether this is just down to a Southern African coach who's been in the job a little too long, alongside his coaching staff, and a skipper who's really not up to the job. Let's face it, Cookys you typical posh boy done well, who doesn't have that bit of a street fighting b@&@&d quality about him.

Talking of that quality, Nasser Hussain faltered against the Aussies, but he'd had to face a much superior team to the likes of Micth J et al. Remove Gooch, Flower and Cook, send KP into IPL retirement and rebuild for next time by casting the net a little wider. At least Carberry has shown that you don't have to be a Saffer to play for England. Even trying the likes of Chopra might buy us some time whilst the next generation comes along.

Oh and without the likes of the Schofield report, this sort of disaster would happen every series, except against Bangladesh. The selectors became obsessed with not changing the core of players to the point that they refuse to look objectively at under achieving players. Reminds you of any other team?

[Valentines Park]

The selectors became obsessed with not changing the core of players to the point that they refuse to look objectively at under achieving players. Reminds you of any other team?

Larry for England!

[Andy]

The selectors became obsessed with not changing the core of players to the point that they refuse to look objectively at under achieving players. Reminds you of any other team?

Larry for England!

No, Larry for Australia. Fifteen years hard labour in a penal colony.

[oldhasbeen]

After the third day at Perth there can be little doubt, if there ever was any, that the Ashes are gone.  A 5-0 thrashing looks a distinct possibility.  This disgraceful performance calls for a root and branch investigation into the deficiencies of English cricket. We could call it ......the Scholfield report.

It is simply many of the more senior players losing their hunger. End of the road for Petersen, Trott, Prior, Swan. Broad needs to be dropped until/if he show a more mature approach to the game (I'm old enough to have seen his Dad play and Stuart is a chip off the old block).

Agree that Peterson & Prior need to be shown the door now- give Ballance & Bairstow a bash, can they do any worse? At least Johnny B would bring a positive outlook to the team.
Broad's been our best bowler in Aus, and did v well last summer - I'll live with the odd showing of petulance.
OK, Swanny's had a couple of bad tests but does that justify dropping him? And who to replace him with?

Can Ally / AF  stay as captain / coach? Will  they want to?

Is there anyone in the Performance squad who might improve matters?

[nat]

After the third day at Perth there can be little doubt, if there ever was any, that the Ashes are gone.  A 5-0 thrashing looks a distinct possibility.  This disgraceful performance calls for a root and branch investigation into the deficiencies of English cricket. We could call it ......the Scholfield report.

It is simply many of the more senior players losing their hunger. End of the road for Petersen, Trott, Prior, Swan. Broad needs to be dropped until/if he show a more mature approach to the game (I'm old enough to have seen his Dad play and Stuart is a chip off the old block).

Agree that Peterson & Prior need to be shown the door now- give Ballance & Bairstow a bash, can they do any worse? At least Johnny B would bring a positive outlook to the team.
Broad's been our best bowler in Aus, and did v well last summer - I'll live with the odd showing of petulance.
OK, Swanny's had a couple of bad tests but does that justify dropping him? And who to replace him with?

Can Ally / AF  stay as captain / coach? Will  they want to?

Is there anyone in the Performance squad who might improve matters?

Agreed that Broad is a good bowler but I say that his attitude is causing problems for Cook...who needs all the help he can get at the mo.

A replacement for Swan is a problem ...maybe a case of short term pain for long term gain. The spin cupboard is pretty bare...there's a guy at Yorkshire who I like the look of. Moeen Ali offers a decent spin option...and bats.

[JohnnyW]

Interesting that people are suggesting senior players are losing their hunger, yet Broad should be dropped for being aggresive and passionate!

I agree that several players need replacing, Pieterson & Prior for a start. Cook, Swann and Anderson need a rest.

The idea of central contracts worked well up until a year or so ago, but once players became undroppable they became a negative influence. Not sure what the answer is though.